I don't know much about black urban gangs like Bloods and Crips, but I grew up in a motorcycle gang known as the Iron Horsemen Motorcycle Club.

My house was the clubhouse in Kittery, Maine. This was in the 70s. The gang evaporated by about 1982 due to federal effort. The gang's entire funding came from drugs, specifically coke. After awhile there was so much effort focused on the group that they couldn't get away with the trafficking and enforcement needed to maintain drug business. There were also 'casualties' in the form of motorcycle accidents and murders. Hell's Angels weren't a competitor because the IHMC was in their league. My father was incarcerated after breaking statutes of parole restricting him to New Hampshire, which was our state of residence at the time he was convicted of assault while enforcing a contract. The guy he shot in the kneecap said it was an accident because he didn't want to end up dead but a woman he shot during the crime did testify.

Anyway, that's old history, but I still have some pictures. Nothing like seeing the old homestead during a rally with a 40' x 60' swatztika banner on the roof.

Originally posted by alien
As some here know me, they know I've had some experience with the gang lifestyle...won't go into specifics, as thats in the past...best kept there...but...I found it fitted what I was looking for at the time...an identity, a family. But thats all it was...a replacement for what was lacking - in my life and in myself.

There ARE some pretty standup dudes in most gangs...but the sad thing is from what I saw predominately it was all bullshyte. It was all just insecurity masked with aggression...covering up for their own inner weakness...acting tough and throwing down on someone just to prove how much of a man they were when in fact being a mans got nothing to do with who you beat down. Being strongs got nothing to do with how you hold your turf or who fears you...thats fake, thats empty, thats plain bullshyte.

Fear is not respect. Fear is not strength. Fear is fake.

True strength ain't about being hard...its about being strong enough in and of yourself to be soft. Its about offering a hand up, rather than a beat down. But when you're in the scene your sense of perspective is perverted...its what you know...its ALL you know. Thats life...and the thing is that not only do you not tend to see any other way of living...for some you wouldn't even WANT any other way of living. As wicked as it is...thats what you know...thats your lot...or so you believe. So your definitions of what IS strength are all fecked up...its like "Yeah bro, drunk blah blah, smoked blah blah, hooked up and bashed over blah blah...HARD!" But thats how it was/is...so I ain't gonna hate on someone still in the scene.

Thankfully I got shown another way and shown I did have an identity apart from the patch I wore on my back...walked away from it all and now work as a Community Mental Health Worker, specifically dealing with 'troubled' youth and also working in Youth Drug and Alcohol rehab programmes...just trying to get my younger 'brothers' clean and hopefully show them there is another life there if they want it.


Peace,
ALIEN

Strength is Loyalty within a gang or crime syndicate, it is loyalty and power...but for those outside the orginisatiob or gang, fear is one of the only things that give people "respect" for them, it is a different kind of respect sure, but it still is a respect, like people respect any Mafia because of how big, rich and powerful they are.

When I was a member of a Mafia, even though small, and not much heard of, I had respect, not many people messed with me.

If sombody is in a Crime Syndicate or Gang, you dont want to mess with them because you know if u mess with 1 of them, your eventually gunna have ALL of them after you, THAT is a type of respect.

Here's an easy example, when you were/are at school theres usually a person in your age group that is tougher than the rest of the people in your age group, you dont mess with them, because you know he is tough and could easily have you in a fight (unless you are quite tough yourself) and you respect that person for that.

There are many different ways to "respect" a person, try not to use it as a general term.

The Yakuza and the Triads and the Yardies, these are NOT mafia's... they are just another name for a crime syndicate, Mafia's usually require links to another mafia to begin, The Sicilian Mafia was the first, then some of the people with links to that, then moved to Italy to found one there, then from there to Russia, and parts of America, then a few other places.

The Triads are a Crime Sydicate formed in China
The Yakuza are a Crime Sydicate formed in Japan
The Yardies are a Crime Sydicate formed in Jamaca

They are NOT Mafia's

Also I know ALOT about crime syndicates, anyone have any questions, feel free to ask.

Well about two years ago I was involved in a gang,Crips to be exact.And they come to be when there's a sense of need to be accepted or when people feel they don't have anything that they're apart of.I remember that's why I joined and the way you get in is by being "Jumped" in.Where they can hit you as much as they feel and then your in.

Originally posted by The_Squid
If sombody is in a Crime Syndicate or Gang, you dont want to mess with them because you know if u mess with 1 of them, your eventually gunna have ALL of them after you, THAT is a type of respect.

Here's an easy example, when you were/are at school theres usually a person in your age group that is tougher than the rest of the people in your age group, you dont mess with them, because you know he is tough and could easily have you in a fight (unless you are quite tough yourself) and you respect that person for that.

There are many different ways to "respect" a person, try not to use it as a general term.

I do somewhat agree with your point on 'respect'...though suspect we are merely arguing semantics and the definition of what 'respect' is.

For me, respect is not something bourne from a negative perspective...its not bourne from a fear of getting beaten or of that person having power/dominance over you. To me it has nothing to do with what they could do to you or take from you...rather respect is something you GIVE to them, freely, not out of fear or force, but in a way from a more positive place of...well...simple - dare I say - acceptance, acknowledgement and love for them as a person not a 'power position'.


Peace,
ALIEN

You may from your point of view belive thats "respect" sure, but there are loads of different types of respect, they come from many different sources - fear, loyalty, power, fame,strength, wealthiness, equalness... etc

The point of "respect" you have given, sounds like one of the best forms of respect, and probally what people generally talk about, like; "always RESPECT your elders"... etc...

Do you get me? or am I still confusing everyone?

Respect is most easily gained through fear. But fear causes disloyalty at the first opportunity. What's easily gained is easily lost. True respect comes from someone you believe in.

I was born in, raised in, and still live in New York City. I've known a good number of gang members. From what I've heard the real Bloods and Crips orginated in LA, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to see people adopting the name. Here is Manhatten one of the biggest gangs is the Latin Kings, their colors are yellow and black and their grafitti is identifiable by the crown drawn next to their "tag" or street name. Basically though, a gang is exactly that, a gang of people. In certain areas, specifically in areas largely consisting of a given minority i.e. Spanish Harlem you'll find ethnocentric gangs with the ability to grow dependant on the population of that group. Nowadays the LK are pretty big, with leaders, and sub leaders etc, but it still started out as a street gang and in essence is still a street gang, organizing and controlling vices much as any organized crime gang/mafia/syndicate/what have you does. the only relation these gangs could have to any conspiracy theory would be their being hired to do some kind of dirty work, but really only if it consisted of selling drugs, prostitution, robbery, or feuding with other gangs. But yes, they do have secret hand shakes, secret code words, special greetings, special names, special symbols, but these are arbitrary and ultimatley of no importance as one regional offshoot may not recognize another's "secret handshake"

The interesting thing with Street gangs is that the original ones, ALKN, BGDN, BPSN, etc. arose during the 60's in response to the oppression and injustices that minority communities were facing

That's interesting. It makes sense as I can't see a group of people suddenly deciding to get together & start killing people that trespass in their territory for no reason Are there an remnants of these original gangs left?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I was born in, raised in, and still live in New York City. I've known a good number of gang members. From what I've heard the real Bloods and Crips orginated in LA, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to see people adopting the name. Here is Manhatten one of the biggest gangs is the Latin Kings, their colors are yellow and black and their grafitti is identifiable by the crown drawn next to their "tag" or street name. Basically though, a gang is exactly that, a gang of people. In certain areas, specifically in areas largely consisting of a given minority i.e. Spanish Harlem you'll find ethnocentric gangs with the ability to grow dependant on the population of that group. Nowadays the LK are pretty big, with leaders, and sub leaders etc, but it still started out as a street gang and in essence is still a street gang, organizing and controlling vices much as any organized crime gang/mafia/syndicate/what have you does. the only relation these gangs could have to any conspiracy theory would be their being hired to do some kind of dirty work, but really only if it consisted of selling drugs, prostitution, robbery, or feuding with other gangs. But yes, they do have secret hand shakes, secret code words, special greetings, special names, special symbols, but these are arbitrary and ultimatley of no importance as one regional offshoot may not recognize another's "secret handshake"

The Latin Kings started here in Chicago, and is now one the largest gangs in the nation. Same goes for the BGD's and VL's.

Here's the story of Australian youth gangs in the city of Perth as I know it. Well originally there was two gangs starting around the early 80s, one the Dragon Boyz which were made up of a group of Vietnamese friends after one of their friends was stabbed to death and they wanted to form a justice, and a second called the Sword Boyz which was formed when the idea to form the gang came from Sydney as it was already formed there. Fights over respect and power broke out over the years as slowly more gangs started to form, smaller gangs, school kids etc you know the deal. Around the early 1990s a new gang called the Embros formed after a few friends in a bar were having a laugh and came up with the idea. At this point there was 2 major gangs (Dragon Boyz slowly disappeared) and heaps of random smaller gangs. In the mid-90s a lot of gang members attended the school Mt. Lawley, even some of the members of the Morley Boyz (Group of friends all living around the Morley area) which later on developed into Spider Boyz. With the smaller gangs battles over power lashed out so maybe someday they too would be a dominate gang. All I know is there were many stabbyings and stuff. Morley Boyz later on in 2000 had much respect, but the members became too uninterested or ended up in jail so the gang split up. The leader didn't throw away his gangster life even at the age of 20 something. He started recruiting members at the age of 16-18 and started a battle for power. He quickly formed respect for himself and his gang and became one of the leading gangs in Perth. A stabbing in 2001 ended his winning strick, he was locked up after his stabby bled to death in High Park. He ended his leadership onto others and the gang stayed stabble with new recruits and some older members leaving. Later on they became more organised and started keeping a low profit, changing their habits of fighting to dealing drugs over a large scale. As they developed till 2004 so did a few new gangs such as Scorpion Boyz, Filo Boyz, African Kings, etc. Today there are 3 major gangs, Sword Boyz, Spider Boyz and Embros all hardcore older gangs and all very organised. The other smaller major gangs are more of fighting gangs and aren't really hardcore as individuals, but more in numbers. Many smaller gangs are battling with them over respect as disputes starting over nothing. All this is stupid to me as I like to go out a lot, getting into trouble with these gangs is unavoidable, but my respects to Sword Boyz and their allies and Spider Boyz and their allies is great and hopefully they can keep a balance and maybe even wipe out the Filo Boyz.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by Perth_Boi]

Well heres my situation where I am, theres 2 major gangs and a crime syndicate, Theres 1 gang called the "Paula's" (prenounced "Pullies") and one that doesn't really have a name and are just refered to as the "Ramsey Lot" and these 2 gangs live on the other side of the Island to each other, and absolutly hate each other and are at the moment in "gang war" with each other, there honestly is only rarely a moment that they arn't in "gang war" so what you usually get is a group of lads getting on a bus with rounders bats (like baseball bats but alot smaller; therefore more consealable) and going to the otherside of the island to fight the other gang on certain days.

As for the Crime Syndicate... the Manx Mafia, not well heard of, but both the Paula's and (until recently) the Ramsey Lot constantly try it on with them, the Manx Mafia however is well funded and makes quite alot of money, and the Ramsey Lot (who are involved in the same town as the Manx Mafia) learnt this and learnt to live with them quite recently. The Paula's still one of the biggest gangs there is on the island, still try it on with Mafia members, I just hope a gang war doesn't start, the Ramsey Lot keep asking the Manx Mafia if they will join the War but the Manx Mafia say "No", thank god. I mean if the Ramsey Lot and the Manx Mafia sided against the Paula's, the # would fly.

The Paula's as far as I know were founded in an area named Paul Rose, and are just a group of people that came together to become strong and have power, they dont have any form of funding that I know of, other that hustling people for money, and using their own money if they have any.

Pretty much the same with the Ramsey Lot, except they were founded in the town of Ramsey and possibly the Ramsey Lot sell pirated video's and cd's to get money aswell, the gang is also smaller than the Paula's.

The Manx Mafia, im not sure how big they are in numbers, but they have their fingers into Pirating, Drug Dealing and Racketeering, oh and possibly when they get hired to do certain things like beat somebody up or something.

I have a general view that there are places everywhere roughly like this, am I right? Please post your views on this, or your situation where you live.

Originally posted by nathraq
...That's why I joined the army after High-School. That's why I had a top-secret clearance, and built nuclear warheads. For the attraction of it.

Gee, I hope you did not just intentionally post false and/or misleading information. Or maybe I do?

here it iz bloodz and cripz are both gangz bloodz are part of people nation n most cases and cripz r part of the folk nation n SOCAL u have the SURENOZ (HISPANICZ) who claim 13 and in northern cali u have not onli bloodz and cripz buh u have SURENOZ13 & NORTENOZ which claim 14 NORTE and SUR HATE EACH OTHER therez too many #ing rataz n northern california # send them surataz bak where they came 4rm

So the Hells Angels do not come under "The SPECTRUM" of the secret societies,....see I did'nt know that.Funny though how the 'Jesuit Vattican Connection' does..I have written in a thread asking about The Outlaws Bible,but it was moved to chit-chat..
I'm from Malta a tiny winy island in the Mediter..or so I thought,but that's another story...;;The knights Of St John come from there...
I believe that the Rockefellers are quite huge in the US...The Big Chair goes to Count Hans Kolvenbach-The Jesuit General also known as The 'Black'Pope...

I've been involved or associated with gangs that call themselves bloods and crips but the truth was those were just filtration systems for higher more organised gangs. (Being Diplomatic opens doors)
But honestly, most of the gang members I associated with had ties with cops and had free reign of the streets in my area, they did small dirt work that the police didn't/couldn't do. Now because of my family I have also been associated with the biker gangs society, being Satans Choice and Hells Angels.... very interesting names when I realized who they worked for really. Every evil master (whether a collection of evil or one person) need someone to do the dirty work for them, or need someone ON street level to actually carry out society changing events, A lot of police are members of gang members aside from the fact the police themselves are a gang, Once your in, your in for life.
Although you see "thugs" or "gang" members cursing the police, the main reason is being forced to do something you have no choice by the police,
i.e. you get caught selling drugs; instead of taking the drugs they try to make a deal with you to give them information instead. Thats one way it starts .. but greed is mostly how it occurs, wanting a piece of the illegal pie.

Political Tools?
Satans Choice
Hells Angels

I roll with a lotta Crips and Disciples. I know the Code Talk, Handshakes, Walks, and so on. Since I live in a nice area, I don't get involved in any of the drug dealing. The reason I started rolling with them, is cause we have a problem called MS-13, a major problem up here, thinkin they can push everyone around. It was by coincidence that I started hangin with them (Crips and FOLKS). I didnt know that most of my friends from earlier on, were actually in it. I have some friends in the Bloods up in NJ too. The Willingboro area. Down here in Northern VA, there's a lotta fake kids tho, claimin random sets from TV and all that. I've stayed in rough neighborhoods before, that are truly poor, run down and dangerous, that's why most of my friends, tend to be kids that haven't lived in Northern VA their entire lives, because I tend to make friends with kids who have seen what I've seen, and appreciate where we live at. I guess u could call me a FOLK-Crip Associate. I dont go around killin people tho. That's for whoever else to do. I just have my friend's back when they need it, and they have mine.

[edit on 12-15-2004 by TheAgentNineteen]

Originally posted by nathraq

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree

The interesting thing with Street gangs is that the original ones, ALKN, BGDN, BPSN,

Is there any way that one of you guys could help me out with the meanings of the acronyms above? I'm a little confused. Thanks.

In Chicago ALKN is the Almighty Latin King Nation. BGDN is the Black Gangster Disciple NAtion. I don't know what BPSN means.

Black P-Stone Nation. The Black P-Stones are a Blood gang out of the Jungles Housing Projects in LA. IT was the same place on Training Day, where Denzel has his woman at. If u havent seen it, then watch it. The guy who is supposedly the head of the gang in the movie, the one who sits his gun down on the ground, and tells Denzel "Everyone has to put their own work in", his real name is Bones. He's the Black-P Stone General.


[edit on 12-15-2004 by TheAgentNineteen]