I would just like to state an opinion. My esteem of ATS as something respectable went down a bit when it devoted an entire page to John Titor. He has his own website, and I do not feel bad at all saying that anybody who believes him is an utter fool deserving of all contempt they receive.

I know ATS is a place for people to discuss their views no matter what, but the site itself should have a little more self-respect and dignity. This guy is almost as bad as Alex Chiu.

We're supposed to Deny Ignorance, not help spread it.

[edit on 8-8-2004 by Esoterica]

What I found strange about the photos is that the yellow caution tape and assorted stickers are in the EXACT same positions (some obviously crooked) in all photos and the technical manual drawlings. If more than one machine was built as Titor stated, they would all be a little differently placed. It looks to me like he just used one fake unit to make all of the photos/drawings from.

Originally posted by Esoterica
We're supposed to Deny Ignorance, not help spread it.

Thanks for your opinion. But ignorance is only "spread" if there is an absence of accessible logical data/information that leads to the truth in any matter. We form our "truths" based on the empirical knowledge attained by our society at its relative level of advancement at any given time. If the data is incomplete then how can we put the reject stamp on it?

Do we have enough empirical knowledge to seal the lid on the validity of Titor and his information? e.g., Do we know for certain how the laser light shown in his picture truly reacts in this type of environment? Is the light beginning to curve as it goes just beyond the window (i.e. not inside the vehicle - it's hard to tell with this pixelated image), therefore you wouldn't see any "lensing" or distortion of the background anyway?

Look, I don't know if I believe the whole Titor story either and it appears ultra-hokey taken at face value. But I don't agree with acting like the cardinals who refused to look through Galileo's telescope and at least consider that this may be a true event that is no less deserving of critical thinking and debate than any other controversial topics here. If anything, I'd find it beneath the "self-respect" and "dignity" of this forum to not allow this information to be discussed, as in any other fringe topic, unless and until it could be unequivocally proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a hoax. At that point, maybe the value in discussing it would be how to avoid such hoaxes in the future. As far as the "fool" deserving of any "contempt" as you put it, I'd say THAT is the true ignorance that needs to be denied here. My $0.02 of course.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by Aurelius]

Ignorance is a privitive, in other words a concept meant to express the lack of something just like dark (the absense of light) cold (the absense of heat) etc Ignorance is a concept not a thing it is the lack of a thing Ignorance can not spread.

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame
This is looks exactly like that shotgun.

Nice legwork on finding a close match. Although I have to wonder why the color of the gun changes at the very bottom of the pic to a color similar to the grip. You can see just a tiny piece of it near where the chamber would be located. It doesn't match up with that model of Mossenberg which has a silver-colored chamber.

I also wonder if there is any chance that Titor could have picked up one of those when he allegedly cruised into the year 2000 (they are, after all, obtainable online)? Or, in light of WWIII supposedly occurring in his year 2015, that he had one left over from his "shotgun infantry" days prior to that. Yeah I know - its 21 years at a minimum from 2015 to his time. Just playing "what if".

... and I can explain why from a mental standpoint of a fellow engineer.

Initially, I wanted to believe this story to be true... however, I can see eye to eye with the "why" he did it.

I myself am in robotics engineering, previously in computer engineering.

I dont want to referr to engineers as smarter than everyone else... but we do posess an extreme ability in creativity.

What he is doing, isnt so much as telling a story to gain attention... Rather, he is playing a mental game. I do it myself ALL the time.
He comes up with an elaborate system, quite often a story, or an invention (that doesnt exist), and attempts to deliver it to an audience, and see if they believe it to be true.

Much as a hacker will compromise the security of a network and then simply leave. He just wanted to see if he could do it.

Like I said, I do the same thing, ALL the time. Its not to get attention, its a personal game. Something to amuse yourself with. A goal, if you will, to test your creativity, and improve it.

My version usually starts with an idea for an invention, or theory. I then test and produce it, and tell others about it. The catch is, I tell them someone else made it, and that it has already existed for quite some time. I then create names, and events, in order to back up the tale.

Why I dont just come out and say the invention, or theory is mine, I dont know. I suppose the game is more appealing to me.

In the end, I end up with an invention/theory that everyone believes already exists, and no-one else will bother to steal from me. I also gain a little knowlege of how believable the concept is, and therefore how much of an impact on things the release of such a creation would have.

This 'game' can also be used to actually invent something on the fly. I often tell someone that a certain something has been created. The person I'm conversing with asks about it, and notes any hard areas to get past. With the added pressure of having to answer the person, your mind goes into overtime trying to actually invent the object right there and then.
It works. In seconds you invent something that you couldnt have had the drive to do in days by yourself.

But the number one reason for this game is the knowlege that you were personally creative enough to pull the wool over everyones eyes, at least for a little while.

My girlfriend has learnt to catch me on it... she notices catch phrases like, "I was reading about this new invention in a magazine the other day".... to which she responds...
"You mean, YOU came up with another invention..."
"Yes"
"Why dont you just claim the inventions YOU make, instead of claiming someone else made them?"
"I'm not quite sure myself."


It all boils down to wanting to know that what you have done is recieving attention, but YOU dont want to be known for the invention itself. Not that the creation is harmful in any way. Its a twisted sense of modesty. You simply dont want your name to be known... just your creation. (And the alias you applied to it as your name).

One day, I'll own up to my aliases. As I'm sure "John Titor" will too.

"John Titor"... he is now known by that alias... he has successfuly played the game... and I congratulate him. Good job. I wish I could meet the real man. We could probably create ALOT of incredible things together.

He left you with a story... an incredible tale of a time traveler... and his predictions of the future.

I applaud what he has done.

"John" as you referr to yourself as... feel free to email me some time. I wont divulge your actual information, I just want to talk to someone else who plays the 'game'. We are a different breed... and it would be nice to actually speak with someone else like me. Use the U2U system on this website.

I know youre reading the follow-up posts to this. I would be.

[edit on 27-1-2006 by johnsky]

This is all a hoax and a half!

You can get a lot of good ex army stuff these day's, and all the Freemason Brotherhood all over the planet is into all the ex force's stuff! A couple of photo's prove nothing, but snapshot's of American Civil War nutter's, in their crappy old US banger's, that they take on camp site reenactment's of past terror tatict's, and manslaughter of all other ethnic race's other than white's. Yes! There is another civil servent's war planned for Spring 2007, my dad never stopped going on about it when he had his Brother's in the house when i was a kid. And as far as i've witnessed UK's Birmingham City Council's road work's for the past year, i'ed say they've already planted the city with charge's. There's been a lot of digging hole's in place's where there's no supply's of anything to connect to, in certain area's of the city, and that's burried explosive's to me!
The Freemason Brotherhood are encouraged to keep us guessing at their technology, because they havn't really got any, and this is a good way to have a good laugh at unsuspecting people, while stealing their technology in the process. Don't you know what the Pinnacle of Chivelry mean's?

This is the first I have ever heard of this nut case. How could this evidence fool anyone? I would think the low quality of the scans and photos would send off alarm bells. If not that the old gieger counter that is being passed off as part of a machine from the future should tell you something. Hoaxsters always provide low quality photos. If this were real he would provide definitive evidence without hesitation. What a wast of time. Whoever this man is has had a good laugh at everyones expense. How did this ever get this far?

Johnsky,

What you are saying is that he is a liar and that it is Ok to lie because he is smarter than everyone else. What you are describing is often referred to as “Delusions of Grandeur” or a “Superiority Complex”. Either way it is a mental illness. There is also another possibility that comes to mind. Often only children of busy or inadequate parents develop a mental illness that causes them to create fantasy lives. It is an attempt to make up for the lack of emotional nurturing from their parents. Basically they become incapable of honesty and detached from reality. This is not however limited to only children and can result from just plain bad parents. To get the attention they are not getting from family they drift off into this fantasy world. You are right in that people with extremely high IQ’s often develop mental illnesses. What makes it even worse is they are unaware of the illness and justify their lack of honesty by rationalizing that they are superior and therefore its OK to lie to people they consider inferior beings. Then we have the true sociopath. Sociopaths are incapable of normal human emotions. Most sociopaths are harmless but some have become the most dangerous people in society. An example would be Sadam Husein. He has withdrawn into his own little fantasy world. He will never understand why it is wrong to lie, steal, cheat and do harm to others. Watching thousand of people being butchered would not even raise his pulse rate. One thing all of the above have in common is they are able to justify their immoral actions because they consider everyone else inferior. So you see, they even lie to themselves. Often they are unaware that everyone can see through their façade and are laughing at them behind their backs. Then there is another even more sinister possibility. They are just plain liars. They are morally corrupt and totally untrustworthy and are fully aware of their actions. These people are worthless to society and generally only have friends who are equally corrupt. Our prisons are full of these people and they honestly believe they have done nothing wrong.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by Blaine91555]

Blain, you took the word's right out of my gob!

If this man was playing the Bard's Genious game of creating future event's, then he would have had better photo's in the future technology, not worser one's like you're gandma would take standing on one wooden leg in a sinking dingy in a thunderstorm, and looking through the only good eye left that she kept in her colostomy bag!
I recently saw some old movie clip's of old photograph's that Nasa have been using for year's as alien's, they have supposed to have pulled out of shot down or crashed aircraft since long before Rosswell! Funny how these same scientist's at Nasa, first worked on the rivets of Hitler's cockwork spaceship, i mean 'cockwork', as it's what you call the false pride of the left hemisphere super id, when there's not enough right hemisphere conscious coherence left to recognise the fact that one is only invisable to one's self, before they ended up in sunny California, and had Hollywood's SFX departement at their front doorstep, and into every home on the planet on a little electric box called Subliminal Imaging, or Philidelphia for short!
I wrote a story about time travel when i was 10 year's old in Junior School way back in the 70's, which is still one of the subject's on the national curriculum for education, so as far as i'm conserned, adult's who havn't got out of the school playground by the time they are 15-16, then obviously they need some mental health education in the realm's of adult self awarness and accountability, as the origine of Lawlessness is dead from the neck down, not from the neck up!
I only had to flash read though this man's story, and to be honest, i wrote a better time travel thesis when i was ten, and as any innocent child know's, one has to go backward's in time in order to go forward's, and pick any lay line conjunction on the planet! So what's the Roslyn Apprentice Pillar for, if it ain't to bring one's conscious coherence to the Hilter, not Hitler, because real human reasoning require's both hemisphere's of the brain to work in unison between the conscious and subconscious memory, and if Hitler had had a fully conscious brain, he wouldn't have had Parkinson's by the time he was 45, and that's what you get in a society run by an Establishment that promote's self denial, in a Death Denying occult that's just death to their own subconscious memory, not the rest of us being victimised and abused via occult influence in dysfunctional adult society!
I'ed tell you all about my thesis on time travel, but the Yeoman's have got my Sterling press plate for printing my own paper money with, that show's my face with a false beard on, standing in front of the Ka'bah at Mecca, holding the first printed book copy of the Qur'an in 1848, an won't give it me back! But according to Oliver Cromwell in Meshec-Kedar, The Black Stuff, or the real Oceania of the Elysean sea's, the Establishment don't want to pay the Piper, again! So here come's yet another Ayrian Pooh/Arian flu, which is really global depression!

Text Red

You know, I have been reading up on recent news and several years ago I have read up on John Titor.....

Weather or not he is not a actual time traveler does not matter, what matters is how people respond.

As he has said he is a person that comes from a family unit and does not like our time because of our hate and crime. He may have not put it in those words but, in a indirect way he did.

As far as 9/11 goes, you say he didn't say anything about that......read his entries closer. He didn't give the information directly, he gave hints. Before it happened.

I have not yet got done reading all of his discussions, but for the most part I can see that it is on the money....aside from the differences of his time to ours. Of course there would be some differences.

I have posted many things on many sites, and I constantly get negative reactions, If I were a time traveler from the future I would be scared to help those of you that have such a bad attitude.

Though then again, if I were in the same place at the same time, I guess I would help anyone......unless of course you were trying to harm me or take something that was of mine.

Do you honestly think that he would just say, "hey come to such and such location and I'll give you the grand tour of my time machine."? NO! Why? because for one he doesn't trust any of us from this time line...thats not his fault..

We the people made his reality, we the people of the world indirectly killed his Girl to be. I would be pretty upset about going back to the time that everyone puts the world in shame.

The only thing that I must say, is......If we do nothing to change the world....what would the world be like? We are dam'd if we do and dam'd if we don't....what is the better? Turning the world into a slave world run by the bank, or blowing everyone away that is a threat to our personal freedoms?

I can't come up with the right answer to this question, and I am sure that there would be negative responses to this post. Hell you could even call me a time traveler.....even though I HAVE NOT traveled through time, I am not of this time.

Whats funny is, your going to see more and more of me all over the internet until, 1 there is no internet, 2 I'm dead, 3 a time traveler takes me away, 4 the government gets ahold of me, 5 aliens take me away, 6 I have more important things to do then to try and convince the people of the world that maybe blowing up other countries is not such a good idea, even though I do not know a good alternative that the other side would listen to or even our own nation would...

But I do know, that what if one guy actaully came back from the future to warn us or help us in an indirect way, and everyone turned there cheek and their hearing aid on? What if that time traveler was you, trying to convince everyone else the horrible future that lies ahead if things did not change? What if You (from the future) could not face yourself (from now) because you now would/could not believe you then and knew it?

Read what he has said over and over again, and look at the date and remember today, realize the hints and maybe just maybe you can learn and teach.

He said the schooling then was to learn how to learn, not be taught. So teach yourselves, off the information that was given to you. Its like putting yourself in his shoes from his time. He only had history books and old out dated things to learn from....and not very much of it.......now he has given you some history to learn from....but you have to see the key points, you have to learn yourself....how do you learn algebra without being taught?

As I will always say,
The Past is Gone, The Present is History, The Future is Now!
Live long and peaceful.

Yeah , the year 2035 and we are back to using Tubes in machines...sure.

John Titor proved that John Titor is full of baloney with his own story. People seem to have a bad habit of completely skipping over his "facts" and his setup in order to deliberate over the more interesting and fanciful details. He is a fun story and there are many things to pick apart - laser out the window is one of my favs.

The fact is all you have to do is pay attention to the setup and you should know not to continue reading anything else he said for any reason other than the enjoyment of fiction.

It would be nice if he was relegated to the Billy Meier bin already.

well this in fact is a very good story for all of us who like to think about the infinite possibilities science can bring to the table. Never the less, stories like this are food for thought and not to make out conclusions in a haste

You know the John Titor hoax always interested me. And now, I think, I can finally put a face to the name.

I think this guy just let the cat out of the bag, so to speak, as to the origins of John Titor.