Originally posted by AgentSmith
The picture quality probably has more to do with the compression I imagine - What I was wondering is, why is there an old Civil Defence Geiger Counter from the 50s/60s/70s in a couple of the pictures with the time machine? I am not an expert on exactly which one it is because I am English and I believe it is an American model, but I am sure I recognise it correctly! In fact I think it may be a CDV-715.

You missed the massive (frequent) debunking. The poster is a college aged kid and not a traveler from the future. These are odd devices and manuals and diagrams that he just put up (stuff that looked "cool") to see how many people he could sucker into believing his lies.

Uep... Geiger counter it is. The diagrams are also Geiger counter diagrams (if I remember right) with the parts names overwritten with new names. If you look closely, you can see the changes in the typefaces where someone photoshopped the new names in.

It's just incredible that anyone would fall for this lame stuff.

Also something to take notice of in the shotgun picture is a matress. I have the same exact kind. I bought it from walmart last summer while touring yellowstone. Its an inflatable. Ill drag up a picture

Im starting to think this is now a hoax, a good one i must say. He has researched into a lot of different topics to back up his claim, but something i have noticed is that the last picture looks like it was taken in a back of a pick up truck. I think he has made the back of this pick up truck look like a cockpit or something, but im still studying the images

Also, as AgentSmith mentioned, the laser bending is a rather weak attempt. As if the laser light was being bent, then all the light passing around the object would be bent, it would give a lensing affect that would be noticeable. Which it isn't.

Here's a link that has some pictures of '67 Corvettes. The third one down is an interior shot at about the same angle as Titor's. The car has a blue interior, but you can still see the similarities.

Nice leg work vanishingpoint. Still, it doesn't convince me that it isn't a hoax. I still feel confident in saying it's all crap.

My basic feeling of doubt always goes back to Titor's general attitude regarding time, the future and what will and will not affect it.

Pretty big holes in my opinion.

Spiderj

I got to page 10 then got bored. Since i've been unable to retain enough interest until the end, I guess it wouldn't be right for me to form an opinion on it's validity.

On the other hand, as i was reading the other parts, i kept getting this impression of an introverted geek in my mind.

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams It might be worthwhile to compare the picture with the laser to the singularity diagram... and see if the light is bending where it should bend.

ah-hem... if this were the case, and there was gravity massive enough to bend light... All light would be bent, nut just the laser... and... All matter would be distorted near the unit as the gravity would be crushing. It's a fraud... simple.

Ok, the attempt to convince people was pitiful. For people who have read and researched on the physics of time travel, worm holes, and black holes, it is dispairing to see such convictions on reality. Wormholes were found that they have the properties to link to periods of time as well as areas. In this way, it might be possible to travel backwards in time through a wormhole. This creates possbilities for time travel, and a time machine. Its simple to go forwards in time, as seen in special relativity, but much harder (practically impossible) to travel backwards. In order to go forward in time, one needs but to gravitate near a large gravitational mass, such as a black hole. Or, one needs to travel at high velocities. In order to travel back in time, one needs to find a wormhole linking the present to the past. Wormholes are very unstable. The slightest distrubance made by any particle (even light) could collapse and close the wormhole because of added mass (thus, added gravity). However, physicists found theoretical ways to do the opposite.

A professor by the name of Kip Thorne was asked by his friend and colleague, Carl Sagan, to help him on finding a way his main character in a book he was writing at the time (Contact) could travel through space at a very short time. Thorne happily agreed and set to work. His results were quite surprising. Thorne found that the throat of the wormhole could be kept open to make a safe, practically problem free journey through the wormhole. However, in order to hold the throat open, there needed to be a negetive energy density inside. This kind of matter is called exotic matter, since it is not seen anywhere else now known. The wormhole would need to be lined with this exotic matter, which would have the affect of pushing the walls of the wormhole apart. This leaves possiblities for rather smooth travel through space, or time.

However, the energies needed in order to create anything of this sort, to stablize it, to contain it (whatever that would mean), etc, would be more than salvaging the potential energy of an entire galaxy by means of matter/anti-matter collisions (giving 100% pure energy). The gross worth of the entire world's economy combined couldnt finance such a massive project. It would be unpractical. Plus the technology is far, far out of our reach.

Originally posted by victor was right
the narsicist psycho calling himself "john titor" is a fraud.

some ATS members deserve commendation for asking the questions which [for ME at least] showed up this self-important little twerp as the sniveling fraud he really is.

face it- there was no reason for a "time traveler" to come to the anomaly boards except to do schtick and revel in the experience of taking in so many people with it.

there are many such con artists out there (one of them owes me $3,000 to this day) and the internet allows them to get a lot more mileage out of their little scams than they'd ever get on a streetcorner, or hustling in bars.

Geez, why so much hate? Did he kill your dog or something? If it is a hoax, who cares? I thought it was entertaining. He didn't try to scam anyone out of money, nobody was hurt. Why so many insults? Sounds like you have some personal issues to deal with.

[edit on 28-7-2004 by norml]

Originally posted by onlyinmydreamsAs for the visual materials this page is concerned with, I have to say that I'm impressed with the visual stuff related to the diagrams of the machine and the singularity graphics. They're of a quality equal to that of a professional drafter. Either JT, the hoaxer, is also an art student... or these really are genuine drafts of SOMETHING.

I agree that these pictures are well drafted, but they are by no means difficult to draw.

I myself am a draftsman excelling in AutoCAD, Solidworks, Master CAM, and some 3D Rendering programs. I do not do Cartoons and Animation, just Engineering Drafting.

My opinion on these drawings as a professional draftsman (BCIT degree) are as follows:

I think that they are very well done esspecialy this one;

There seems to be a "Time Machine" that was built to production in the other photos. That leads me to think that these drawings are real, real as in someone designed these drawings to be a guide to build something, that does not mean its a "Time Machine" only something that was built with plans.

I would also suspect that there are construction detail drawings and part layout/cross section drawings to support the above drawing. I say this cause to draw a cross section with that kind of detail you will have to have specific part sizes and an understanding of the "Time Machine" from a 3D visual aspect of it, inside and out.

I cannot tell by these pictures if these drafts are hand drawn or are computer animations. If the picture that I posted above is done by hand, this is an extremely skilled draftsperson that has alot of patients(also I would suspect that this person would be and older person, cause in the industry now adays, and even for the last 14 years or so C.A.D. has taken over). If this a computer animation then it is still done by a skilled draftsperson.


CONCLUSION:
IMO if Titor did all of this himself he is a well educated person in the engineering field. Maybe even and Engineer himself. Still he would need help building the "Time Machine". So he definitely IMO didn't act on his own. How many people would have needed? Iam not sure, but he would need help.

If the "Time Machine" was built by Titor to be a hoax, and the "Time Machine" was built to the diagrams. I would think that Titor would have had to have a shop to build this at or at least have connections to people that have tools to built this, or it is a shell/representation of the diagrams that could be built in your back yard. Either this or Titor didn't built it.

Titor would have also needed to be well educated in the Physics field. I know the basics of Physics from school, but he seems to be up on at least the things he would need to know for this hoax, if it is a hoax.

So I either think that Titor was a Engineer & Physicist & Layman with the ability to build his own parts and the connections to get other things like Civil Defense Geiger Counters that put together this hoax or, Hes was the front man for a group of people that could pull this hoax off or, he wasn't hoaxing this at all.

Iam still unsure of everything, but I don't think he acted alone if he hoaxed it, and Iam not so sure that its a hoax as of yet.



[edit on 7/28/04 by HumptyDumpty]

I see this in two ways.

It's real, and noone one here knows what theyre babbling about.

Or, it's fake, and whoever invested the time in this is NOT getting laid.

One thing I found most interesting about his predictions as to the nature of society in 2036, is the very apparent survivalist/millitia mentality.
Conflicts between the "cities" and "country"
The bombing of U.S. cities by russia as beng positive.
So on and so forth.
Though I cant understand why someone would put this much time and effort into creating a hoax like this there are too many inconsistancies to give him any creedance.
However his predictions to seem to be fairly archetypical.
However if you look at titor as more of a psychological/socialogical expiriment it brings up some very interesting observations.

Geez, why so much hate? Did he kill your dog or something? If it is a hoax, who cares? I thought it was entertaining.

if he really WAS from the future then he may very WELL have killed my dog, and engendered this hatred you allege i feel......that's actually not a bad question.

*AHEM* do we need more scams and con artists in the world?

yes, it IS entertaining, in a "war of the worlds" type way... but if we've come to the "hoax, who cares?" point, then america is worse off than i feared.

Concerning Titor's civil war predictions:

Not purposely trying to confuse people by bolstering the fraud factor of one alleged hoax by virtue of the data in another named hoax, but information from the Billy Meier prophecies going back to 1981, in Meier's book Prophecies and Predictions, states the following interesting little tidbit:

"In future times, America falls yet into into two civil wars which will politically divide the country into four or five parts."

and in Meier's Henoch (Enoch) Prophecies (1987):

"Yet the misery on earth will continue, as two terrible civil wars will break out in America, whereby one will follow the other. Afterwards, the United States of America will break apart and deadly hostility will prevail among her, which then leads to the division into five different territories and it cannot be prevented that sectarian fanatics will play a dictatorial role."

Both are a translation from Meier's German books which are available for purchase from Switzerland. I guess one of three possibilities could be deduced (feel free to add more):

Titor and Meier are both hoaxers and just good guess-timators on a potential future America.
Titor lifted Meier's prophecy (for reasons unknown) and used it cuz it sounded pretty cool.
Titor and Meier are both the real deal and we're in for some crazy times here in the States.

~ Aurelius

Light is bent to start with. The moment you create a 100% straight line...then you have instantaneous travel thru space/time. Machine shamine....you already come with an in-built time machine....it's called your mind.

quote from norml

"Geez, why so much hate? Did he kill your dog or something? If it is a hoax, who cares? I thought it was entertaining. He didn't try to scam anyone out of money, nobody was hurt. Why so many insults? Sounds like you have some personal issues to deal with."

AMEN! -i agree it was a hoax, but its no crime to lie over the internet. i never saw an "insert credit card number here:" feild. im glad he did it. t'was an interesting read.
-lost

The light in the cabable is a fiberoptic cable, look how it just ends even if the laser light was bent it would be bent infinatly and not jsut come to an end, although the whole thing is blatent bs because there would be no way to take a picture if the light was being bent into the past or whatever.