Creationism/Intelligent Design: PROVE IT!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


A bit off-topic here but why, if you are an atheist, does your forum name indicate you have a soul? Isn't a soul a purely religious viewpoint?

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


A figure of speech!
Michael Jackson had a soul! ::p

reply to post by The Old American


Yes, it's entirely off topic.

The term 'soul' can be used in a metaphorical sense. I do not believe in any form of supernatural soul.

Again I'd just like to ask if anyone could provide evidence or proof of the creationist/intelligent design hypothesis that is independent of 'evolution is wrong!'.


Even if evolution is wrong (it isn't) that doesn't mean creationism is correct.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

Yes, but what of it?

The absolute, undeniable fact is that the ball is in motion relative to a frame of reference. That is absolute reality.

A simple Lorentz transformation allows an observer in one frame of reference to 'see' what the observer in another frame sees. So what's the big deal?

You're going to debate an armchair philosopher by appealing to special relativity? Good luck sir!

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

"""""

Well as for either case of origins no one can assuredly prove their case as no one mortal was around at the exact moment the earth was created, (or in an evolutionary believers case expanded and contracted).

Though there was someone who was in the spiritual God=Jesus, and six days later Adam and Eve.

Now with those who do not Believe that the Bible is the dictated word of God from beginning to end with out error must understand it is your responsibility to prove that it is wrong not mine to prove it is right.

www.conservapedia.com...
"""The benefit of the doubt is to be given to the document itself, not assigned by the critic to himself"""

This is so lol-tastic that I'll just repeat what has been said a thousand times: the burden of proof is upon the claimant. You claim the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and that its contents are true. You must provide the evidence to convince us this is so.

reply to post by imnotbncre8ive

You're going to debate an armchair philosopher by appealing to special relativity? Good luck sir!

He was getting his chance, the same as I give everybody. Now I know what kind of a Michael Cecil he is, he will get no further shrift from me.

Would anyone at all like to put forth a positive proof of creationism/intelligent design? I'm really concerned that there haven't really been any posts directly addressing this question.

Please, try to prove it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Would anyone at all like to put forth a positive proof of creationism/intelligent design? I'm really concerned that there haven't really been any posts directly addressing this question.

Please, try to prove it.

There is ZERO proof for creationism, nothing even hints at it. So I'm afraid all you'll get is ill-informed attacks on evolution because that's all they can do given that "their" theory isn't even a theory

How else do you explain all the "if we come from monkeys, why are there still monkeys", or "micro evolution isn't macro evolution" or similar statements that show how bad their science education is

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I see already there is a lot of theories on this matter, and this is all they are. No one will ever have the proof that you want, simply because the universe is infinite. In other words no one, not even our creator or any ones creator would know the truth. The best way to look at it, is from what we know. Everything we know is living within something, like we have cells living withing us. As it all runs on the same consciousness system, which is energy, if the cells in us ever become aware, they will also be asking themselves this question. Where did we come from? why are we here? and so on. So you probably see where this is going, and most likely we are living within another being, and this being is probably wondering the same thing, on where it comes from, and so on and so on, a infinite number of time's. No beginning no end, and definitely no knowing or no truth. thus is the mystery of life, and will always remain this way for infinity.

I think the main thing we all can do, is stop trying to think about it, because you will all make your heads hurt so much, because it will never come up with a real truth, because another lies just around the corner

I hope this made a little sense, and all we need to do is keep moving forward, and live life to the fullest. In the end this is what life is about. take good care

Love and peace

Rick

Originally posted by keepingaopenmind
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I see already there is a lot of theories on this matter, and this is all they are. No one will ever have the proof that you want, simply because the universe is infinite. In other words no one, not even our creator or any ones creator would know the truth. The best way to look at it, is from what we know. Everything we know is living within something, like we have cells living withing us. As it all runs on the same consciousness system, which is energy, if the cells in us ever become aware, they will also be asking themselves this question. Where did we come from? why are we here? and so on. So you probably see where this is going, and most likely we are living within another being, and this being is probably wondering the same thing, on where it comes from, and so on and so on, a infinite number of time's. No beginning no end, and definitely no knowing or no truth. thus is the mystery of life, and will always remain this way for infinity.

I think the main thing we all can do, is stop trying to think about it, because you will all make your heads hurt so much, because it will never come up with a real truth, because another lies just around the corner

I hope this made a little sense, and all we need to do is keep moving forward, and live life to the fullest. In the end this is what life is about. take good care

Love and peace

Rick

This is a look into a everyday theists mind. Declare there is a god, then don't want to actually think about said creator from fear of waking up noticing there is no need, no proof of, and no reason for a creator.

I am not trying to be a dick here, I actually kind of like you post without the creator assumption.
You are basically saying you do not understand something but are inserting a creator (for no apparent reason)... and then turning your brain off.

Keep moving forward means progress. To quit thinking of or questioning something because it is unknown or hard to understand is not progress... It is religion.

If the universe, and us, were not created through intelligent design, then intelligent design would not exist - therefore, we would not be capable of it.

reply to post by nophun

This is a look into a everyday theists mind. Declare there is a god, then don't want to actually think about said creator from fear of waking up noticing there is no need, no proof of, and no reason for a creator. I am not trying to be a dick here, I actually kind of like you post without the creator assumption. You are basically saying you do not understand something but are inserting a creator (for no apparent reason)... and then turning your brain off. Keep moving forward means progress. To quit thinking of or questioning something because it is unknown or hard to understand is not progress... It is religion.

Well actually there is a creator, this is merely energy and matter. I am not saying to stop thinking, but to stop think about the infinite, because our minds can not comprehend what is around the corner. I always question everything, but in the end to what extinct are we going to get the right answers we seek. Like I said the possibilities are infinite. From what I see going on in the world today, we are all moving forward? or do you think we have stopped? And FYI everything is religion? Science as well. Religion is a word that can be used for just about everything, that one believes. So yes you are correct. But to label, just one God for intense is wrong, since we have seen so many thought our history. And there would be even more that we do not know about. In the end if we are creators, we are in actual fact Gods our selves. Some just think they are more powerful than others, by thinking they can decide who lives and dies. This is what we refer as a real god, Because if a real god existed, this would be their role to play. But as we know these people are not real gods, , it is merely the ego has taken over, Which in some sense it is better to follow the heart and our intuition, and let the energy flow freely within us, and not let the mind control us. Thanks for reading my post. Take good care

Love and peace

Rick

reply to post by keepingaopenmind


You can twist the words "creator" and "religion how you want. I was obviously talking about a deity and religion as the worshiping of said deity.

I was going to give a longer reply, but have decided against it.

reply to post by nophun


Sorry if I offended you, if you are religious your self. As we all know in this world, there needs to be proof of everything, in order for some one to believe in something. Other wise it is what we know as Blind Faith. This is why I keep a open mind on everything, and never stick to one thing. And the only proof that of our existence so far is energy and matter. I do not see why someone needs to put a label on something we still do not fully understand. One day they might have found something else besides energy and matter, so then that becomes the next thing for me to believe in. Like I said it's infinite. But It's still good to believe what you believe in, because that is what keeps people strong, As I have faith in all humans, that one day they can all learn to open their minds up. Thus we will all be finally awake, and won't have the problems of today, with everyone seeing difference's in people. But why there remains so many different religions out there, People will always see differences. If there really is a need for all these differences, it is a matter of people learning to except the differences of people. Just like you didn't like the creator part, this is what I am talking about. learning to except what others believe. Who in the end really cares if I use creator or God or Devil, in one sense they are all the same. Creators. Take good care

Love and peace

Rick

reply to post by keepingaopenmind


Seriously wtf man.

Who in the end really cares if I use creator or God or Devil, in one sense they are all the same. Creators.

You're correct they are all the same, supernatural.
The whole point of my post was to point out how you inserted creator/god/devil/thor/fsm/#ing magic/etc.into the conversation and then added "I think the main thing we all can do, is stop trying to think about it".

I was wrong to assume you were a theist, you could be a atheist ( not likely) or deist for all I know. My point is you invented this "creator" in your mind and use it when you do not have the answer. It is completely okay to say "I don't know" and stop thinking about something. Filling in the blanks with magic/god/anything supernatural is silly.

reply to post by nophun


I don't know, and no one does? I am merely using words that people know and understand, and can relate too. Maybe this will please you more ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________________________ lol. energy and matter, infinite.

sorry for the sarcasm, but as you can see, it does not make to much sense, to most people out there. Not everyone lives with their head in the books, Not saying that you do. We must remember that people do believe in these supernatural, so it is in respect to those that do believe in that stuff too.

any way, take care

Love and peace

Rick

Does your "energy and matter, infinite." have a name ?
When you say "infinite" what are you talking about ?

Not everyone lives with their head in the books, Not saying that you do.

Do you think someone would need to read a ton of books to not believe magic ?

Anyone who believes in the supernatural and does not want to hear the truth should probably stay out of a thread titled "Creationism/Intelligent Design: PROVE IT!" that is posted in a forum that is all about people discussing the origin of everything.

reply to post by nophun

Does your "energy and matter, infinite." have a name ? When you say "infinite" what are you talking about ?

No, Personally to me it does not have a name, other from that? But that's not to say, that others do not have a name for it. If you are unsure what infinite is, Then you might want to do a quick search. Or you can can go here

dictionary.reference.com...

Do you think someone would need to read a ton of books to not believe magic ?

Have you ever tried to do any magic yourself? I know some people that believe in black magic, and have also seen them do it. I never use it myself, but for some reason it worked for them, I guess the reason it worked, is because they believed in it more than I did. An old saying " What we focus upon the most, is what we become" And this does not always mean something physical, It more means mentally. And unless you have tried it before, you can not say it does not work. It's merely about believing it works. If we choose not to believe then of course it will not work.

Anyone who believes in the supernatural and does not want to hear the truth should probably stay out of a thread titled "Creationism/Intelligent Design: PROVE IT!"

That is the same as telling a child to stay out of the candy store, lol.