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Creationism/Intelligent Design: PROVE IT!

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posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


What would you say if there was God. Since I do know there is no God. What would you say and how wold you feel?




posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


What would you say if there was God. Since I do know there is no God. What would you say and how wold you feel?


Is this question related to the topic? Sorry i am not completely with you. I think our paths have crossed before, and with a similar question. And how do you know there is no God?

Firstly because of my conservative upbringing, I do believe there is a God. This is called faith. However, I also believe in evolution. Why is it, that if I believe in God, I can't believe in evolution too. I do believe there is a higher power. A power that controls us all, and all creation.

I have always wondered how atheists can believe in nothing. I do not understand atheism, and maybe you can clarify it for me.

I do however find it rather rude, when someone tells me there is no God. I also find it rather rude if someone tells an atheist that his believes are wrong. To enforce one's beliefs onto another is wrong and unacceptable. It leads to conflict, and I hate conflict.

vvv'



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil

Well that is your faith and your logic.


Nononononononono.

Faith and logic have nothing to do with it.

You are on a moving train. You drop a ball. To you, the ball drops along a perpendicular line. That is what you observe.
And that is all you can observe. You can do this ten thousand times and you will never see anything other than a path of the ball which is perpendicular to the floor of the train. Your observation represents the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

I am in the train station. Every time you drop the ball I see motion along the "y" axis AND motion along the "x" axis.

I see something that you do not see.

I see something that you cannot see.

That is not any criticism; neither is it any condemnation.

It is merely a statement of fact.

My perception represents the "observing consciousness" Created 'by and in the image of God'.

Not being able to see the curved path of the ball, you, on the moving train, can accuse me of being "delusional" or a "fanatic" or that I merely believe that the path of the ball is a curved path.

But there is no belief and no faith and no logic involved in my perception at all.

What I observe can be observed by a 7 year old.

I am merely reporting what I am observing.

Let's be clear: I am not disputing or denying your perception of the ball as falling along a perpendicular line to the floor of the train. That is what you observe.

But neither do you have the right to deny what I am actually observing while standing in the train station.

In fact, if you get off the train altogether and have someone else drop the ball, you will observe precisely the same thing that I observe.

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:02 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


You can scrap the metaphors here. If there is a God. I would like proof. I understand where you're trying to come from on this issue. But to me it's you're belief only. Since only you saw it or felt it. To me it's unconvincing.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
Since I do know there is no God.


This "knowledge" that you have that "there is no God" is the knowledge of someone on a moving train and who is capable of perceiving only the perpendicular path of a ball as it falls to the floor of the train.

But there are people in the train station which have a different knowledge of the path of the ball: they see it as a curved path.

Neither a person on the train, nor the people in the train station are in any position to deny what the other is directly observing or perceiving.

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
You can scrap the metaphors here. If there is a God. I would like proof. I understand where you're trying to come from on this issue. But to me it's you're belief only. Since only you saw it or felt it. To me it's unconvincing.


Prove to me that the path of the ball dropped on a moving train is a perpendicular line.

To me, your statement that the path of the ball is a perpendicular line is "unconvincing".

You observe it to be such. But only you see this or feel it. To me, this is nothing but your belief: that the path of the ball dropped on a moving train is a perpendicular line.

I see it as a curved line.

Get off the train--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' which demands proof--and merely look at it from my perspective in the train station.

Michael
edit on 9-10-2010 by Michael Cecil because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
 





If there is a God. I would like proof.


Why do you need proof. All beliefs are based on faith.

I do not need proof to know that there is nothing. I know it.

YOU are the proof that there is a God.

vVv



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


Faith is faith. I don't need faith to keep me going or to understand life. I need proof and evidence of what I have to believe.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


I can't prove to you anything. But I can prove to you evolution is real and that I will use facts and evidence to back it up.
Here's a list I will like to share with you and explain why you're explanation is not working.
18 unconvincing arguments for God



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Faith is faith. I don't need faith to keep me going or to understand life. I need proof and evidence of what I have to believe.


Prove the metaphysical duality to me. It is the assumption that there is a separation between consciousness and the physical reality.

Prove it inasmuch as you do not need faith to keep you going or understand life.

And, while you are at it, prove to me that you exist; and don't rely on the arguments of Descartes.

I don't have any faith in his arguments.

Do you?

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


I'll see what I can get! Will you be online later?
This will take a few minutes. I have to upload a lot of material.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 
I can't prove to you anything. But I can prove to you evolution is real


Well, it seems safe to assume that you have never taken Logic 101, these statements fulfilling the necessary requirements for being referred to as a "formal contradiction".

In any case, if you 'can't prove anything to me', on what grounds do you demand proof of anyone else in the first place?

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


I just noticed I contradicted myself. Anyway did you view the link discussing the thread on evolution?
I would like you comment it and see all the evidence.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 
I'll see what I can get! Will you be online later?
This will take a few minutes. I have to upload a lot of material.


Don't bother.

Seriously.

You are merely dropping the same ball on the same moving train ten thousand more times and, ten thousand more times, observing that the path is still a perpendicular path.

I will stipulate that the path of the ball is a perpendicular path.......from your frame of reference.

What I am saying is that yours is not the only frame of reference.

I am in the train station and I see things quite differently.

Oh, by the way, I used to be on the moving train, just like you. And I used to believe that the path of the dropped ball could only be a perpendicular line. But then I was thrown off the train, but survived in order to see that there is another perspective.

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


What do you believe in life and why do you? Explain it to me! I'm curious and I just burped.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


I can't prove to you anything. But I can prove to you evolution is real and that I will use facts and evidence to back it up.
Here's a list I will like to share with you and explain why you're explanation is not working.
18 unconvincing arguments for God


Excactly!! You can't prove anything. So why them should I believe there is no God.

The link you provided, I just read it, and unfortunately it doesn't proof anything to me.

Take for example the very first "argument" :


(1) Holy Books – Just because something is written down does not make it true.


Just because something is written down does not make it true.

This whole first line, is a massive counter argument for what you quoted as being real.

Why should I believe those 18 "argument" ? Just because another person wrote it? Not likely.

You see, maybe your idea and my idea of faith is two different things.

Vvv



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


Of course our views on life are different. We have different logic and what not.
Here's an article explaining what were discussing.
thedaoofdragonball.com... ion/


How do you know what you know is the truth? Because you believe it to be. Those who cannot enlighten to higher truths believe that the truth at their level is the highest, and they believe in all that they can see at their level and below them, with the presumption, based on observable information and incite, that their current level is the highest.



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Michael Cecil

What do you believe in life and why do you?


Why should you care what I believe? What difference does it make what I believe?

What I believe might very well be wrong.

What is important is not what I believe, but what I have knowledge of.

Michael



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Because I'm curious and I have the right to know what you believe. If you fell like that then why do you believe what you believe? Faith or is it just skepticism of life?



posted on Oct, 9 2010 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


Of course our views on life are different. We have different logic and what not.
Here's an article explaining what were discussing.
thedaoofdragonball.com... ion/


How do you know what you know is the truth? Because you believe it to be. Those who cannot enlighten to higher truths believe that the truth at their level is the highest, and they believe in all that they can see at their level and below them, with the presumption, based on observable information and incite, that their current level is the highest.


Yes indeed, we seem to agree to disagree. I also seem to read differently into things than you do.

Take for example this, from the article you posted about what we are discussing:


A person who does not come with preconceived notions has the potential to enlighten quickly.


You do seem to come with preconceived notions. Requiring proof for everything, before it becomes believable to you. That makes it difficult to really say anything to you based purely on faith.

Faith is to believe in the unseen, the unknown, yet you believe it to be true. That is faith. So if you require proof for Faith, that is gonna be very hard to comply with.

vvv





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