Dr. Hagar says women suffering from PMS should pray and read the Bible for relief

Intrepid, you get a "time-out" for that remark.
And, on a serious note, that's one of the things wrong with our society-----got a problem, take a pill/

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
And, on a serious note, that's one of the things wrong with our society-----got a problem, take a pill/

I agree. A lot of the problem come from doctors promoting new drugs. Pumping money into the Pharmacutical industry. Colusion, plain and simple. I won't have a doctor that their first "fix" is drugs.

Originally posted by Bleys
Dr. Hager also sees PMS as a stress-related disorder and not a physical one.

Well, not having any personal experience with these issues, I would just like to say that in the early days of the feminest movement there was plenty written about the menstrual cycle and its impact on women's mental and physical health. At that time, I even saw on national television, Germaine Greer dare Johnny Carson to tell her whether or not she was experiencing her period. There was much made of the fact that Jewish women had more menstrual problems that most women and that, indeed, the psychological and physiological responses to menstruation were culturally conditioned.

Of course, there was a political agenda attached to these claims and while the experience of menstruation probably hasn't changed for the species, the political agenda seems to have changed considerably. In the early days of the feminest movement the imperative was to break into the "man's world" and the traditional argument that women were less emotionally stable needed to be discredited.

Now, most barriers faced by women in those days have been eradicated and the political agenda is different, although I have to admit that I gave up trying to keep up with the feminest agenda long ago since the last time I checked it could change almost daily, miraculously, if you will.

I don't know Dr. Hager nor had I ever heard of him until today. I think that he gave a very good accounting of his position on Mifeprex and it was clinically sound. The stringent regulations regarding the approval of new drugs are in place to protect the public, not to frustrate them. When the regulations were relaxed for AIDS drugs the rationale was that the drugs were going to be used for patients with a death sentence anyway.

With respect to his religious beliefs, I believe that he has a right to treat patients as he sees fit, as long as it is medically responsible. He claims to not refuse to give birth control to unmarried sexually-active women, but if he did, it would be entirely within his rights to do so, provided he refers the patient to a physician who does, if indeed, the patient is incapable of using the Yellow Pages or a referral service to seek medical services.

So, therefore, I believe that Dr. Hager is perfectly capable of using his clinical skills to evaluate drugs, since in his capacity as an FDA physician his skill will not require direct patient contact.

If you practice Voodoo in a 3 piece suit and call it christianity, it is still Voodoo.

I wouldn't care if someone wanted to do a double blind clinical trial to see if they got any significant results one way or the other. (Maybe you get WORSE PMS if you read the bible) I suspect there would be very little difference. For people who are very religious already it might be soothing, It might also distract them from paying attention to the details of their lives and finding those things that objectively made a difference.

To appoint someone like this to the FDA is ludicrous.

It woud be as bad as appointing someone who had been the head of the 'Houston Miracle' which turned out to be a total accounting fraud as the head of Education.
oops! GW Bush did appoint Paige to be head of Education.

PS the FDA is a joke. It is largely funded by private Pharmaceutical companies and most its determinations are completely riddled with fraud. How we can give them our regulatory responsibility is baffling.
.

My local "adult" store sells vibrators shaped like Jesus. Think that would work against PMS?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't know Dr. Hager nor had I ever heard of him until today. I think that he gave a very good accounting of his position on Mifeprex and it was clinically sound. The stringent regulations regarding the approval of new drugs are in place to protect the public, not to frustrate them. When the regulations were relaxed for AIDS drugs the rationale was that the drugs were going to be used for patients with a death sentence anyway.

My objection to Dr. Hager has nothing to do with his position on Mifeprex. I believe that additional testing and research is necessary to ensure the health of anyone taking this drug. My objection to Hager is that his personal beliefs interfere with his objectivity and as member of the FDA that is completely unacceptable.

With respect to his religious beliefs, I believe that he has a right to treat patients as he sees fit, as long as it is medically responsible. He claims to not refuse to give birth control to unmarried sexually-active women, but if he did, it would be entirely within his rights to do so, provided he refers the patient to a physician who does, if indeed, the patient is incapable of using the Yellow Pages or a referral service to seek medical services.

Again, I have no problem with his personal practices or beliefs - its his dollar that's walking out the door. But those beliefs make him unacceptable to serve in a governmental or advisory position with respect to the general population. He has clearly demonstrated that he is incapable of presenting an unbiased viewpoint with respect to women's issues.

You noted that since he won't be seeing individual patients that its okay for him to be there - but he really is. This man will be forming women's health policy - I can think of nothing that effects me more personally.

And before you ask - I am not currently experiencing PMS. This is simply a direct response from the daughter of fellow Marine. (daddy didn't raise no girlie girl)

I don't get it, why does a man think he knows how to cure PMS? Did he ever have PMS? Did he do any scientific studies? Well, science, that would be a sin, so obvious answer to that one is no.

This guy is a nutjob, same with Bush and the voices he hears.

Based upon a review of the literature available on the internet much of which is redundant, it is clear that the only legitimate objection to Dr. Hager is the fact that he opposes the use of mifepristone and misoprostol for medical abortion. Everything posited regarding his religion and medical practice is used only to smear his credibilty because it is assumed that Christians are universally incapable of objectivity. Nowhere was I able to find that Dr. Hager treats PMS as a stress-disorder, although I have never heard a woman suggest that stress is not associated with PMS.

Faulting Dr. Hager for his holistic approach to medicine is irresponsible, as this is a very common approach to medicine, especially osteopathic medicine. Meditation and prayer have been shown to relieve anxiety and lower blood pressure and certainly the decision to resort to meditation in lieu of prayer would be the patient's decision, as Dr. Hager recommends both. In no case can I find any suggestion that Dr. Hager's practice is based on the fallacious "prayer vs. medicine" argument.

So really the argument should be:

Dr. Hager opposes our political agenda of emergency contracepton and his other political vulnerablities are the facts that he also happens to be a devout Christian who practices holistic medicine.



[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Dr. Hager opposes our political agenda of emergency contracepton and his other political vulnerablities are the facts that he also happens to be a devout Christian who practices holistic medicine.

I object to his philosophy because it suggests that PMS is nothing but a psychological problem that can be overcome by reading the bible and praying. For him to suggest that indicates to me that he does not have a firm grasp of medicine or women's health. PMS is something that is caused by hormonal changes within the body, and has many physical symptoms NOT related to just having stress. They CAUSE stress, sure, but no amount of bible reading will make the physical symptoms go away.

Also, suggesting the bible and prayer as a therapy alienates many many people, and is downright offensive to some. Are women who are not "christian" supposed to just suffer on through because they do not own a bible or pray to a christian god?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
So really the argument should be:

Dr. Hager opposes our political agenda of emergency contracepton and his other political vulnerablities are the facts that he also happens to be a devout Christian who practices holistic medicine.
[edit on 04/9/4 by GradyPhilpott]

I have no doubt that for some this is enough to criticize his appointment. However, for me - he has demonstrated that he is incapable of maintaining an acceptable standard of objectivity or the ability to put his personal beliefs aside in the interest of science.

Scurry back to your rabbit hole, the earth is flat, and the inquisition is back!

Seriously the war on science and the facts is getting so bad, I am considering the gag reflex of voting for Kerry or anybody else, in the vague hope that this obsession with religion will NOT be replaced by an equally absurd political correctness. Actual science with resonant laboratory controls is the proper method while it includes the effect of continuing sound moral judgment. I prefer scientists who know the Constitution a thousandfold to the charlatans who thrive on grant money and government positions to know more and more about less and less.

Take your Midol or whatever first, then pray all you want to cure PMS, or menopausal men.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by RedBalloon
Are women who are not "christian" supposed to just suffer on through because they do not own a bible or pray to a christian god?

This is my last statement in an argument I probably should have stayed out of.

No where can I find that Dr. Hager demands that women pray instead of seek traditional medical treatment. If he did so, I dare say, he would have lost his medical license long ago. I would only suggest that those who seek to know the truth, look for the facts and avoid the emotional smear tactics employed against this man.

In reality one needs no excuse to oppose the position of any bureaucrat and there is no need to resort to personal attacks masquerading as objective opposition.

Many of you have brought up scientific study. Well I don't even know if we can trust that anymore. Here is a quote from a discussion about the Bush administration and scientist.


Last November, President Bush gave physicist Richard Garwin a medal for his "valuable scientific advice on important questions of national security." Just three months later, Garwin signed a statement condemning the Bush administration for allegedly misusing, suppressing and distorting scientific advice.
So far more than 4,000 scientists, including 48 Nobel prize winners, have put their names to the declaration.

The scientists' statement represents a new development in the uneasy relationship between science and politics. In the past, individual scientists and science organizations have occasionally piped up to oppose specific federal policies such as Ronald Reagan's missile defense plan.

But this is the first time that a broad spectrum of the scientific community has expressed opposition to a president's overall science policy.

Scientists' feud with the Bush administration, building for almost four years, has intensified this election year. The White House has sacked prominent scientists from presidential advisory committees, science advocacy groups have released lengthy catalogues of alleged scientific abuses by the administration and both sides have traded accusations at meetings and in the pages of research journals.

It go's on here.
boards.historychannel.com...

This is awful! I should say that I am shocked that a *man* who believes this sort of thing is in this postition. Shouldn't women make decisions that primarily affect women's health?

While I think that other forms of healing, including religion, is an important part of health and well-being I can't see ignoring scientific medicine.

Please take a look at the NOW website (link to in an earlier post) if you haven't already. I do not like most of the Bush administration's policies toward women.

I welcome any and all prayers from any religion for my health and well-being. However, I am first going to take some ibuprofin.

You have got to be kidding me! Not everyone is Christian. Telling women that they have or need to read the Bible for PMS is taking peoples rights away not only for medication but also for freedom of religion. We do live in America right?

I somehow don't think that they are kidding.
I wouldn't worry, just another idiotic statement by another idiot.

he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying.

I suppose he thinks the moon is made of green cheese, and that the Earth is the center of the universe?

Just another example of the utter idiocy of this archaic administration....

Originally posted by Cercey
This is awful! I should say that I am shocked that a *man* who believes this sort of thing is in this postition. Shouldn't women make decisions that primarily affect women's health?

Yeah, wouldn't life be grand if women WERE in charge of their helath care needs? Men really are pretty clueless.
But, the AMA and drug companies and helath insurers are predominately men and as long as that is the case, they will pay more attention to the health concerns of men.

I know prayer has its value in optimum health, but widespread alternative health care would bea nice addition to mainstream methods. Chiropractic and other alternatives are still not encouraged by most mainstream medicine.
This ignorance is not limited to Republican administrations, sorry

It doesnt surprise me in the least, it just goes to show you just how much respect the goverment has for women. I guess we women haven't come as far as we thought.

The name of the website did it for me: cockring.

lol

I really need to grow up.

Deep

W. David Hager has written volumes about how reading the "scriptures" can heal headaches, and eating disorders in addition to PMS--he does not believe that people should have sex before marriage, he does not believe in contraception, he preaches abstinence, he does not believe in abortion--it is naive to think that his strong religious beliefs are not going to effect his judgement when it comes to policymaking, especially when he has written that he cannot separate his "Christian truths from his secular truths."

But why should we be surprised that Bush has once again inserted his evangelical religious agenda into public policy? Clearly if you don't believe in a Christian God, you no longer have a place in Bush's America.