Britains, what is your take on the English Defense League?

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posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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en.wikipedia.org...

They are claimed to be a Far-Right, Anti-Islamism organization. They have also been called hooligans. So I am asking what is your opinion on this group, are they radical and dangerous like the media claims or is the media spinning this out of proportion? Do you consider them dangerous or Far-right? Are you a member, supporter or have any affiliation?

edit on 9/29/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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I am not a supporter, after speaking to some of them I have come to the conclusion they are a bunch of mindless thugs who just want to beat up people different to themselves. They use extremist Islam as an excuse. They also appear to support Zionism too. Clearly these people either havent bothered to research their cause, or are just not very nice people.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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With a quote from Enoch Powell as your sig it's not hard to guess what your opinion is.

And why link to wiki when they have their own website?

www.englishdefenceleague.org...

Is the English defense league of the far right? Who cares?

They're just another group of ignorant people who base their opinions on what they're fed by the media. They are the extreme of those who have no mind of their own, but follow others misplaced anger.

edit on 29-9-2010 by Wally Hope because: typo



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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They are the type of people who sit their committing benefit fraud and hate their life, but take it out on everybody else because their own mind cannot compute the hate in their mind so they push it outwards onto others



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by EnactedEgoTrip
 


I figured that. It was just a question. We're having that same banging of the drums here in America the only difference here is that its the older people that are acting crazy.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Wally Hope
With a quote from Enoch Powell as your sig it's not hard to guess what your opinion is.




Actually I am not a Far-Rightie contrary to what you may think. I am the Socialist of these forums, I just liked what he said so I quoted it.

My opinion is neutral, they don't seem like radicals, but I'm not the one who lives around them.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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having read the main topic in 'Trencherbone' (the one about street jihad, I am worried, not for myself, but for my children and grand children and great grand children, (yes, I'm that old, and seen a bit of life), plus world news from 'rantburg', I think we should all start looking at what's really going on, its not pretty, its not nice, and its not what I want to see in Anglo-saxon countries. I don't mind peaceful members of any religion or race or creed, but it seems to me, Christians are their own worst enemy as regards turn the other cheek, yeah, get that one slapped as well.
Kriss donlaid,aged 15, tortured, blinded, castrated, burned alive by Muslim street Jihadists, read that in 'Trencherbone' and the rest, eat first, sickening on an empty stomach.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Actually I am not a Far-Rightie contrary to what you may think. I am the Socialist of these forums, I just liked what he said so I quoted it.


You do know who the guy was right? You do know that the 'Rivers of Blood' speech was criticizing immigration, and supported the anti-immigration legislation in the 60's? He was against anti-discrimination laws. He said immigrants were trying to exercise domination over the population. He was the hero of the British far right.


My opinion is neutral, they don't seem like radicals, but I'm not the one who lives around them.


Hate is always radical.

You're the socialist of the these forum? There are lots of us here mate and the last person we would quote would be Enoch Powell.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by pikestaff
 


I believe something strange is occuring in the west and the Elite through the use of Politically Incorrect have silenced any questioning of what is happening which has led to the crazies hijacking a good question about our futures. If the debate was opened up for overall discussion without labeling of racist or far-right I think things would work better for us westerners and the Muslims.

In America we have Newt Gingrich saying Sharia Law is going to be enacted, in Netherlands they have Geert Wilders preaching his hate. We can't let them be the ones asking the important questions, we need sane people asking them.

Judging by my presumption of your age you were around during WW2? If so does this sound anything like the rhetoric of that era?



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Wally Hope
 


I never said I was the only Socialist on ATS, I know there are others. But I'm the only one who is on the American political side of ATS who is Socialist, that's a better way of saying it.

Also, who says every Socialist has to support immigration? I don't, I support Protectionist policies on trade and immigration. Not everyone fits into a narrow box.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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You have to understand that the Government here in the UK seem's to favour people from other nations and prioritise them over the countrys natural inhabitants.

I'm not allowed to fly a Union Jack flag outside my flat when England are playing in the world cup for fear it may upset ethnic minorities.

My Government will happily spend tax payers money to accomodate a muslim family and their 7 children when there's hundreds of English men and women homeless sitting on the street.

We have foreign workers over here undercutting country men because they will work for less than the national minimum wage.

Foreign families recieve all sorts of benefits when the hard working people of our country are struggling and recieve nothing?

You have to understand this breeds a certain degree of contempt and hatred towards members of other minorities/religions.

Personally, I have no problem with foreigners in my country as long as they treat our cultures and customs with respect, for someone to move into my country and tell me I can't fly a Union Jack flag outside my house makes my blood boil.

I'd have to respect the customs of their country so why can't they do the same???????????????



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


It's all the Politically Correct and Elitist crap where if you question immigration in any way you are are Far-Right racist. We have the same problem here in America, except Mexicans don't interrupt our culture. They just take our jobs and lower the wages for the working poor in our nation. But its either the crazy right-wingers who are talking about immigration problems or its being ignored.

They said by 2050 the White Non-Hispanic American will be less than 50% of the population and I wouldn't have a problem with that if it was due to legal immigration but it's not, it's due to illegal immigrants and other people who have no business being here. IMO we need Immigration restrictions on Non-Western nations.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


I agree.

Like I said, I have nothing against people from other countries coming to live here in the UK; as long as they are here LEGALLY and respect our customs, traditions and are contributing to our economy.

I'm not happy in the slightest about foreigners coming here, disrespecting our values, acting like they own the place, not working and claiming Government benefits when priority isn't being given to the people who were born here!



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


I agree, the immigrants who came from Europe to America about 100 years ago came here to work hard in oppressive conditions too, they did their work and had their own lives. The Americans who were against immigrants at that time were simply xenophobic because there was no welfare system to help them, they would either sink or swim, it was up to them.

I support the welfare system staunchly, but I don't think immigrants should use it unless they have lived and worked here for a minimum of 1 year and are working on becoming citizens.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by Wally Hope
 


I never said I was the only Socialist on ATS, I know there are others. But I'm the only one who is on the American political side of ATS who is Socialist, that's a better way of saying it.

Also, who says every Socialist has to support immigration? I don't, I support Protectionist policies on trade and immigration. Not everyone fits into a narrow box.


Hmmm OK please define what socialism means to you?
What do you mean by 'I'm the only one who is on the American political side of ATS who is Socialist'?
What is the 'American political side'?



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


Correct.

I'm not too well up on American history but I understand what your saying, like I've already mentioned if these people are happy to adjust to my countries way of life and traditions then I have no problem.

It just pains me to see fellow country men sitting in the cold and rain on the street when it seems like foreigners get a free pass.

Before anyone attempts to call me a racist or someone with a hatred of other cultures, my ex best friend was a hindu and my current best friend, although born in this country, is half chinese but guess what... he works and has contributed to the UK!



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Wally Hope
 


American political side means the part of ATS strictly about American politics.

So now I have to define what Socialism means to me? Err.. fine.

Socialism is about the workers, it is about a strong welfare state which is opposed to war and is Anti-Globalization. I believe strongly in Social Justice and that the capitalist class is an oppressive force against the will of the working class. I believe in economic democracy and private small business, but I am against any form of Free-Trade and I support Left-wing nationalism. I have pride in my culture and my country, especially the workers.

Am I Socialist enough for you?


edit on 9/29/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Socialism is about the workers, it is about a strong welfare state which is opposed to war and is Anti-Globalization. I believe strongly in Social Justice and that the capitalist class is an oppressive force against the will of the working class. I believe in economic democracy and private small business, but I am against any form of Free-Trade and I support Left-wing nationalism. I have pride in my culture and my country, especially the workers.

That is just an overview. Am I Socialist enough for you?


Partly right, but most of your definition is based on the statist definition, not the actual socialists definition. This is why I asked.

Socialism is 'The workers ownership and distribution of the means of production'. In other words the machinery and land etc., that is used to produce the needs of the people is owned by those who actually produce through their labour, rather than a private owner who takes a large slice of 'profit' for doing nothing but owning the means of production (exploitation of labour).

It has nothing to do with a welfare state. The welfare state is a result of capitalism, and the capitalist need for a poverty/unemployed class. Capitalism requires a poverty class, a pool of healthy workers in order to keep the power in the hands of the capitalist. If there was no unemployment then the workers would have the power, as they could easily find new work if they are unsatisfied.

What is 'left wing nationalism'? Nationalism is a fascist notion, where government, and a strong state system, is king. Nationalism and socialism do not work together. For socialism no government, or state system is required, which is why traditionally Anarchism has supported a socialism economy.


Stateless Socialism: Anarchy – In “Stateless Socialism: Anarchy”, Mikhail Bakunin asserts that Socialism is the means by which humanity can gain its just due.

www.conspiracyarchive.com...


Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and that Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality. Mikhail Bakunin, known as the farther of Anarchism.



edit on 29-9-2010 by Wally Hope because: typo



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Wally Hope
 


I don't believe in the statless class-less version of traditional Socialism. I am more of a Social Democrat or Democratic Socialist. I like the ideals of parties such as The Left in Germany, Scottish Independence Party in the UK, New Democratic Party in Canada. That's the kind of Socialism that I support.

And yes there is such a thing as Left-wing nationalism :


Left-wing nationalism describes a form of nationalism officially based upon equality, popular sovereignty, and national self-determination. Sa'adah 2003, 17-20. Left-wing nationalism has its origins in Jacobinism of the French Revolution. Left-wing nationalism typically espouses anti-imperialism. Smith 1999, 30. Left-wing nationalism stands in contrast to right-wing nationalism, and has often rejected racist nationalism and fascism.


So I guess you can call it Statism if you want.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by Wally Hope
 


I don't believe in the statless class-less version of traditional Socialism. I am more of a Social Democrat or Democratic Socialist. I like the ideals of parties such as The Left in Germany, Scottish Independence Party in the UK, New Democratic Party in Canada. That's the kind of Socialism that I support.


OK fair enough. I just wish people wouldn't call it socialism, because socialism it isn't. Most people think it is, which means REAL socialism is either ignored, or argued against, on the basis of the incorrect definition and use of the term.

You are a liberal, but not a socialist. Unless the 'means of production' are owned by the workers it is not socialism.
The so called 'socialist' countries are really liberal capitalist. Capitalist economies with liberal state systems.
The whole world is capitalist, the majority of the means of production being privately owned and workers coerced to compete for jobs on a world wide basis (outsourcing to India and China for example).


And yes there is such a thing as Left-wing nationalism :



Left-wing nationalism describes a form of nationalism officially based upon equality, popular sovereignty, and national self-determination. Sa'adah 2003, 17-20. Left-wing nationalism has its origins in Jacobinism of the French Revolution. Left-wing nationalism typically espouses anti-imperialism. Smith 1999, 30. Left-wing nationalism stands in contrast to right-wing nationalism, and has often rejected racist nationalism and fascism.



So I guess you can call it Statism if you want.


Hmmmm OK, but that has nothing to do with socialism.

edit on 29-9-2010 by Wally Hope because: (no reason given)





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