Do We Really Care if Israel Defines Itself As A Jewish State?

On the surface one would think they have a perfect right to define their state anyway they wish. After all, what does it matter? Well, it DOES matter because if Israel is solely a Jewish state then what happens to those that have chosen a different religion? Currently in Israel Arab Israelis are suffering from religious discrimination. What happens 30-40 years from now when it is likely non Jews will be the majority. Will they be denied the right to vote? If not, it is certain there will be a Prime Minister that is not a Jew, Will only Jews be able to run for Prime Minister? Would the world accept such discrimination? For most Israelis this is the way it would have to be. Only Jews get to vote.Now you may think Israel is a special case in this regard. After all Israel was created to give the Jews a homeland. A homeland perhaps but not at the expense of their non Jewish citizens.

Let me put this in perspective. What if the US suddenly decided it was a Christian country and all other religions were suddenly dis-infranchised? Not Christian? Can't vote! Not Christian? then you are a second class citizen.

Now currently in Israel if you are not Jewish you may not buy property in what has become "all Jewish areas" I as an American cannot purchase property in Israel unless I am Jewish. Should we perhaps stop all sales of US property to non Christians? Of course not as we would be demonstrating extreme discrimination against our other citizens. How about denying the right to buy property to foriegners? This might be OK. Keep all the property in the hands of citizens,

Seems to my it is not possible for Israel to be both a Jewish state and a democratic state. At some point Israel must chose between democracy or a Jewish state.

reply to post by gem_man


If what you are saying is true than that is somewhat of a downer and we identify all islamic states as being a bad idea so is this..

Does the Vatican call themselves a Catholic state? If so, what about all of the non-Catholics that live there?

reply to post by gem_man


They should go back to Europe, or the US and create a Jewish state, after all they came from there, why the hell are they in Palestine>?

Let them create a Jewish state all they want, but without a Palestinian state they will evaporate from the face of this earth. Arrogant people don't last long, the biggest arrogance is when you think you are the chosen people god and you can't do no wrong

Zionists terrorism has to be stopped.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Does the Vatican call themselves a Catholic state? If so, what about all of the non-Catholics that live there?

How many non-catholics lives in Vatican? Maybe 20-50?
That wasnt so great example.

EDIT:

Sorry.. answer is - 0

As a result, all of the City's actual citizens are Catholic

source:en.wikipedia.org...

"quote"REPLY TO:

Do We Really Care if Israel Defines Itself As A Jewish State?

it would make no difference....
but only as long as all the citizens are treated equally, as if they were all Jewish

Israel by all logic should be calling itself Judea not Israel

the Jewish state (Israel) can call itself the "smart persons state" if it wants...
as long as there is no apartheid with any/all non-Jews, including the Arab and Palestinian citizens

Originally posted by Zmurfix
Sorry.. answer is - 0

As a result, all of the City's actual citizens are Catholic

source:en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 28-9-2010 by Zmurfix because: (no reason given)

Exactly my point. The people that don't relate to that religion do not live there. Granted, Israel is a helluva lot bigger than Vatican City. Maybe the Jews could make their own little "whatever" similar to the Vatican (i.e., a state within a state). That would be ill-advised though....talk about "x marks the spot" to all the enemies of Judaism.

Nonetheless, I believe something like 80% of the population of Israel practices Judaism, so if they wanted to declare themselves a monotheistic state, then they would have little problem doing it. Others would have to adapt or move on I suppose....Now that would be ironic....the Jews sending the non-Jews on an exodus.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by gem_man

 

They should go back to Europe, or the US and create a Jewish state, after all they came from there, why the hell are they in Palestine>?

Their argument to that is, israel is a legal state...

LEGAL IN WHO'S EYES?

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right.

I don't remember the part in the bible where after GOD kicked them out of israel, he said they could come back after Hitler and the holocaust.

Pretty sure they are supposed to live in peace amongst the people of the world until GOD says.

Or at least that's what the bible says.

Not like it's the infallible word of god or anything.

reply to post by Jeanius


Many countries in the world still doesn't recognize Israel.

And many people like me still don't recognize Israel, at least not with the Zionist regime running it.

They should be toppled just like the apartheid regime of South Africa which the Zionists loved so much..

Its not a religious state its a Jewish as in race state. The homeland of the Jewish tribe.

Originally posted by Logarock
Its not a religious state its a Jewish as in race state. The homeland of the Jewish tribe.

So Jew is a race, and the followers of Juda?

I'm lost now, how can they be a race? and a religion?

Two things-

1) Almost every Arab country is called "the Islamic republic of something", and have been long before Israel, so why is this about Israel and not Iran that stones women to death?

2) Most Israelis are only Jewish by heritage, Jewish by blood if you will, and aren't Jewish by religion.. Judaism isn't like Christianity, it's not enough to go to church every Sunday and say 10 times hail marry for something you did wrong, you really have to be committed to it..
Most Jews are secular.

And by the way, Gem_men, as someone who visits Israel you should know this instead of spreading lies-

Everyone in Israel is allowed to vote
Everyone in Israel gets to celebrate their holidays and gets days off according to their holidays
Even in the army, Druze, Bedouin, Christian and Muslim soldiers all get to celebrate their holidays and get days off on their holidays.
People of other religions are allowed to work on Saturday..

Actually most of the religious oppression comes from the orthodox Jews to the secular Jews.. So what the hell are you talking about?

Originally posted by oozyism

I'm lost now

Why am I not surprised...

Originally posted by Eliad
Two things-

1) Almost every Arab country is called "the Islamic republic of something", and have been long before Israel, so why is this about Israel and not Iran that stones women to death?

Dude, we get it, you don't like Iran, but you don't need to bring them up in every single thread you post in. They have no bearing here, so drop it. And to address your point, there are actually very few Islamic Republic of...

I personally don't agree with any State using a Secular title. It sounds very closed off. Like they are saying only those people are invited to the party.

reply to post by Rook1545


Egypt officially the Arab Republic of Egypt
Jordan, officially the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
Iran officially the Islamic Republic of Iran
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Syria officially the Syrian Arab Republic
Lybia officially the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
United Arab Emirates

Give me a break...

I only brought up Iran because they've sentenced a woman to death by stoning long ago for some silly reason I can't remember...

I really could care less about Iran...

And by the way, It's not called The Jewish democracy of Israel...

Although I disagree with many of the things the Israeli government does. This is not one of them.

Their house, their rules.

I may not like it one bit, but if their elected officials are portraying the will of the people, it is their right to do so.

I know this goes against many ideologies of equality and freedom, but that is their choice.

Just as it is our choice to live in our countries based on freedom and equality.

reply to post by peck420

I may not like it one bit, but if their elected officials are portraying the will of the people, it is their right to do so.

True, but only if it is the TRUE will of the people with no influence from state controlled propaganda and lies...

But it also starts to sound like Nazi Germany, deciding who can vote, own property or have Goverment jobs..
It's not a big step...

reply to post by Eliad


Quote "And by the way, Gem_men, as someone who visits Israel you should know this instead of spreading lies-

Everyone in Israel is allowed to vote
Everyone in Israel gets to celebrate their holidays and gets days off according to their holidays
Even in the army, Druze, Bedouin, Christian and Muslim soldiers all get to celebrate their holidays and get days off on their holidays.
People of other religions are allowed to work on Saturday.. te " End quote

Lies Eliad? I did not post that currently people are not allowed to vote. I posted that WHEN the non Jewish population becomes a majority in 20-30 years they may be denied the right to vote because of the certainty of a non Jew being elected Prime Minister.

The fact that non Jews get off work to celebrate their holidays have little to do with the discrimination that exists in Israel today. Arabs could wait years for a building permit to be approved. They may not live within a Jewish settlement and may not purchase property within any settlement. Thats discrimination. They can not send their children to All Jewish schools, Thats discrimination. I am not going to list every instance of discrimination as I would be typing all day.

Sure many of the Arab states define themselves by their religion. No one has disagreed with that. But THEY are not democracies. Should Israel be labeled in the same way they are?
I would like to know your opinion as to whether Israel SHOULD define itself as a "Jewish" state and how this might impact the future of Israel.

reply to post by gem_man


What are you talking about?! Arabs can send their children to "all Jewish" schools! And what's an "all Jewish" school anyway?! There's no such thing!

And what's up with all this speculation?! In 30 years they *may* not be able to vote and they *might* not be allowed to have a PM? How do you figure that? Does that have to do with the fact that we already have and had Arab senators and ministers? Or maybe it's due to the fact that Arabs get the same right to vote as anyone and are completely represented in our government?
Could it be? Or are you just sold on the fact that Israel is a racist country?

And as for Israeli Arabs suffering from religious discrimination? Most of them are Christians.. Do you really think we have a problem with Christians?
No, sadly they do suffer discrimination due to prejudice, not unlike the black people in your country.. It's only that the black people never tried to kill you..
I won't say there's no hate, and that there isn't a gap.. But as generations pass the gap is getting smaller..

And what is this nonsense about having "Jewish only" living areas?!
This is nonsense!
Arabs are legally allowed to live where ever they want! A land owner might be reluctant to sell to an Arab, but that's because he might also be an idiot..

reply to post by Eliad


Eliad, I stand corrected on several of your points! Under Israeli law Arabs may buy or lease property within Israel. I just did a little research on Israeli law and found this to be true. The actual policy is however a bit different. Although the actual law in fact allow purchases and leases Jewish owners seldom sell to non Jews. Land always seems to go from Arabs to Jews and rarely from Jews to arabs. (in terms of outright sale) There is no law requireing sales without regard to ethnicity as we have in the US. Although no one is breaking the law it does smack of discrinination.

Building permits are merely a dream for most Israeli Arabs while Jews receive them routinely. This in my opinion is decrimination.

As far as scools are concerned Here is a quote from Human Rights Watch:
"Nearly one in four of Israel’s 1.6 million schoolchildren are educated in a public school system wholly separate from the majority. The children in this parallel school system are Israeli citizens of Palestinian Arab origin. Their schools are a world apart in quality from the public schools serving Israel’s majority Jewish population. Often overcrowded and understaffed, poorly built, badly maintained, or simply unavailable, schools for Palestinian Arab children offer fewer facilities and educational opportunities than are offered other Israeli children. This report is about Israel’s discrimination against its Palestinian Arab children in guaranteeing the right to education.

The Israeli government operates two separate school systems, one for Jewish children and one for Palestinian Arab children. Discrimination against Palestinian Arab children colors every aspect of the two systems. Education Ministry authorities have acknowledged that the ministry spends less per student in the Arab system than in the Jewish school system. The majority’s schools also receive additional state and state-sponsored private funding for school construction and special programs through other government agencies. The gap is enormous–on every criterion measured by Israeli authorities."
www.hrw.org...