The Murder, The Patsy, The Conspiracy, page 4

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reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 09:22 AM by hollyavila

reply to post by TraceyMarie

There has been no investigation just as there has been no investigation of 9 11, and both for the same reason. The sorcerers who run the world will not permit the truth to be revealed. Their time is very short, though, and you can see truth spilling out from every crack in the wall.

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 12:26 PM by Rising Against

reply to post by fooks

I'm not sure who this post is directed at so I'll just reply to it myself and well..errmm.. I have no idea what you are talking about in all honesty.

ok where was the bullit proof top and

Why would a bullet proof vest be brought up here? Or why would one be needed as at the time no one knew (or was supposed to know) about an assassination apart from the assassin. As far as anyone was concerned this was an opportunity to see the president and for the president to see the people.

why didn't they put it on the car?

The above answers your second question.

who talked whom out of it?

Who talked whom out of what?

Can you please clarify what you are talking about please?

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 12:37 PM by Rising Against

Thank you for reading

and to answer your question, the only answer I can think of is why would they even think about doing another investigation? The first one according to many people did its job and doing another doesn't benefit those in power or those who were involved in the slightest does it? It just promotes the fact that something isn't right thus the reasoning for another investigation and just imagine the public reaction to the government if something such as this was revealed to have been arranged by them.

Public trust in the government would be smashed to pieces and they simply wouldn't allow such a thing. Those who try to get the truth out as seemingly either killed or silenced by other means.

Also, assuming James e. files is correct then he is a perfect example of this as he's admitted to playing a major part in the assassination (being the grassy knoll shooter) and at the same time you have to look fairly hard to see his name when researching this topic.

I hope I'm wrong though and I hope we do find out the real truth about this case but I just highly doubt it sadly.

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 01:02 PM by Rising Against

reply to post by hollyavila

Well thank you for reading what you did read.

It was a long post and I’m grateful for anyone taking the time out to read any part of this thread!!

And believe me when I say I really do wish I did get to the bottom of this as it's frustrating as hell merely speculating on who I think is involved and not knowing for sure but if I had to guess I'd 100% say the vice president had played a huge part in it all honesty. J Edgar Hoover also...

Just take this short video for example.

Jack Ruby:

Google Video Link

He directly hints at the vice president and would you believe it, Ruby dies not very long at all after this.

From my OP:

Ruby in the video even says "When I mentioned about Adlai Stevenson, If he was the vice president there would never have been an assassination of our beloved president."

Reporter: "Would you explain again"?

Ruby: "Well, the answer is the man in office now"

The man in office at this time was Johnson, the previous vice president.

Now have a look at this claim from Howard E. Hunt (CIA official)

E. Howard Hunt, a former CIA agent who organized the Watergate break-in, earning him the name "plumber" states in his book, American Spy: My Secret History in the CIA, Watergate & Beyond, due out in April, that "LBJ had the money and the connections to manipulate the scenario in Dallas and is on record as having convinced JFK to make the appearance in the first place."

"He further tried unsuccessfully to engineer the passengers of each vehicle, trying to get his good buddy, Gov. [John] Connolly, to ride with him instead of in JFK's car – where...he would have been out of danger," writes Hunt.

Hunt concludes, "Having Kennedy liquidated, thus elevating himself to the presidency without having to work for it himself, could have been a very tempting and logical move on Johnson's part."

Hunt passed away also not long after this.

And Johnsons own mistress even claimed that on the night prior to the assassination that Johnson told her:

"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again, that's not a threat, that's a promise"

At the time Robery Kennedy was giving information to Time magazine on Johnson’s corruption deals and was more than certainly on his way out of office, maybe even into a prison cell. After the assassination these reports were never published.

He also referred to these who will never embarrass him again as the Irish Mafia, in other words he’s indirectly hinting at the Kennedy’s as they were of well known Irish descent. (A fellow Kennedy (RFK) also died not long after this and the third Kennedy Brother (Teddy Kennedy) also almost died in the Chappaquiddick incident again not long after this giving the impression someone was out to get them perhaps?).

These people were also said to have been at this meeting.

From my OP:

Members present at the meeting according to Madeleine were figures such as J. Edgar Hoover, Clyde Tolson, John J. McCloy, Jack Ruby, George Brown (of Brown and Root), numerous mafia kingpins, several newspaper and TV reporters, Richard Nixon and maybe more but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Notice a few well known names in there?

Jack Ruby, J. Edgar Hover (the head of FBI at the time) and Nixon (the man Kennedy beat at the elections and the man who eventually became president himself).

Now, these are just a couple of reasons which only scratch the surface and I recommend you read this post to see all this but a bit more in depth.

Scroll down till you reach the title "- CIA, the Mafia, LBJ, the overthrowing of the president and the patsy " as this is the section I'm recommending for you to read if you have time of course.

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 01:15 PM by Chamberf=6

reply to post by Rising Against

I just had to post this song. Jack Ruby always makes me think of the Camper Van Beethoven song of the same name...enjoy.

YouTube Link

edit on 10/1/2010 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 01:20 PM by Rising Against

reply to post by Chamberf=6

Hmmm, It's really off-topic but it's such a good song, I'm struggling to care!!!

(Oh, and that's all I'm going to be able to think about when trying to seriously research this topic now you know! Now, I'll never find the truth

)

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 01:35 PM by Chamberf=6

reply to post by Rising Against

Yeah it is off topic, but I can't say anything to compare with all the work and great research you have done in this thread. There is so much about the grassy knoll especially that I wasn't aware of -- and the guy with the walkie talkie (!), wow.
I guess "wow" about sums it up for me. Oddly enough, the day you posted this thread, Showtime had a movie called "Frame of Mind" about a guy finding old film from Dealey Plaza that showed a guy with a rifle.
So-so movie but synchronous with your thread.
Awesome job, man.

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 01:41 PM by Rising Against

reply to post by Chamberf=6

Yeah it is off topic,

Oh, No, don't worry mate, I was only kidding anyway.

I just mentioned it being off-topic so I could say that next part.

lol

Oddly enough, the day you posted this thread, Showtime had a movie called "Frame of Mind" about a guy finding old film from Dealey Plaza that showed a guy with a rifle.

And funny you should mention that because I've been seeing JFK with the connection to an assassination absolutely everywhere lately from randomly on TV to randomly seeing him in his own presidential motorcade on a jukebox in a pub of all places with big red letters across it saying JFK Assassination - 1963. (I saw that the day after posting)

The night before posting I watched a documentary discussing it as well which was randomly on TV.

Maybe it's because it's on my mind (well probably lol) but I'm definitely noticing it everywhere lately.

ETA: Thanks for the kind comments as well! Much appreciated.

edit on 1-10-2010 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 04:00 PM by randomname

he was clearly shoot from the back, at the moment his head explodes his body goes slightly forward, his jerking back could have been caused by the secret service agent hitting the gas as soon as he heard the shot. anybody who has been in a car has felt that when cruising slowing and the driver revs the gas for an instant it causes a sudden acceleration and you fly back. most likely at the moment of impact the driver heard the shot and pressed the gas firmly causing him to fly back. my opinion he was shot by a radical, with support from people, probably a joint russian/cuban operation. oswald was a communist after all with ties to russia. the most plausible explaination it was sanctioned by fidel castro, being sick of the bay of pigs invasion and the multiple assassination attempts on his life, he could have easily sent one covert agent to approach, provide support, weapons and a plan to oswald. fidel would have felt completely justified to hit kennedy since jfk was doing everthing possible to assassinate him. i would find it really hard that fidel castro, with his vast intelligence agency, the history between the two countries and his extreme anti-imperalist feelings that he would not seek revenge. of course castro can never take responsible because that would mean world war 3. if there was a cover up it was probably to prevent world war 3. world war 3 would not bring back the president and certain people might have thought that jfk brought it on himself and the country shouldn't have to go down with him. thats why this constant crap about the mafia and 2nd and 3rd shooters is brought up, to keep the public i.e. the congress from demanding blood, purely out of principle.

edit on 1-10-2010 by randomname because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 04:00 PM by randomname

edit on 1-10-2010 by randomname because: double post

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 05:15 PM by RRokkyy

Occam's Razor
One shooter,two targets,the bullet aimed at Connally drops 6 inches,hits Kennedy.
Thats my theory.

On November 23, 1963 a report was distributed by the two major wire serves, AP and UPI, which ran in The Seattle Times under the headline “Was Connally Primary Target? Oswald Letter Raises Question.” According to the report, the Pentagon had released a letter written by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Connally, the former Secretary of the Navy, dated January 20, 1962, in regard to his “undesirable discharge from the Marine Corps” – specifically the “Marines Inactive Reserves.” Initially, the accused assassin had received an “honorable discharge” from active duty in September, 1959, but as a result of his decision to defect and offer military secrets related to the U-2 (in exchange for Soviet citizenship which wasn’t granted), Oswald’s discharge was subsequently downgraded to either “less than honorable” or “dishonorable” (there still seems to be some disagreement as to which term is correct, although, oddly enough, Oswald didn’t use either in his letter). Since Oswald had stated his intention to “’employ all means’ to right a wrong he said had been done him in military service,” it was suggested in the report that Oswald’s “threat…could pose the question of whether Connally – rather than Kennedy – might have been the primary target if the charge that Oswald did the shooting is sustained.” In his letter, he accused Connally of commiting a “gross mistake or injustice to a bone fide U.S. citizen and ex-serviceman” and stated that the “U.S. government has no charges or complaints against me. I ask you to look into this case and take the necessary steps to repair the damage done to me and my family.”

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 05:42 PM by mayabong

Thanks for all your great research I stayed up for hours watching and reading. I would really like to see some research into the Israeli Connection to his murder, which seems to be overlooked in alot of research. It seemed to me that Israel was one of Kennedy's biggest enemies of the time. I wonder what Abraham Zapruder's ties to Israel were if any.

Anyways great stuff, still watching some of the things you posted.

Mike

reply posted on 1-10-2010 @ 08:40 PM by heartsfan

Hi all.

I have been a long time lurker on here but would like to have my say on a small part of the JFK Assassination. Namely the headshot.

I have been interested in the assassination since I was 12 years old (I am 32 now). I have been to Dallas 3 times (1998, 1999 and 2004). I have countless books on the subject .... some very imformative, some pretty laughable.

Now here is what I have to say about the headshot ......

Most books, researchers, websites etc ..... always put the grassy knoll shooter at the right hand side of the knoll near the corner of the fence toward Zapruder (e.g. Badgeman, or where the shooter is in the film JFK or where Rising Against shows him - see below).

Now here is Rising Againsts images - I will use these as an example but the same can be said for any shooter on the right hand side of the knoll:

Look at the angles ...... any shot from these positions and the bullet would exit NOT out the back of JFKs head BUT THE LEFT SIDE of his head and maybe have even hit Jackie. There was no damage to the left side of the head or back left side. Most of the Dallas doctors that treated JFK said there was a hole in the BACK RIGHT of his head.

Now to me the most plausible angle for the headshot is one that I have read about a few times and I done a drawing in MS Paint a few years ago now which shows where it is (excuse my laughable drawing skills please. lol):

This shooter position would give the perfect angle for the headshot, especially the exit wound at the back right of JFKs head.

Lets see what you guys think about this.

If I get time I can put up a lot of info on the assassination if any members want me to.

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 01:03 AM by hypervigilant

reply to post by heartsfan

I appreciate the amount of time that went into researching and composing this post.... I was in the eighth grade in Dallas at the time of the assassination and remember the day very well... I had numerous newspaper and magazine articles that were published about the tragic events including a special Extra edition of "The Dallas Times Herald" that was given to me by a street hawker that I helped carry bundles from a truck to the corner of Field and Elm street at about 4:30 that afternoon... I remember that there was a short column about 3 or 4 Secret Service agents being dispatched to Midland Texas to debrief a Texas "businessman" about the assassination.... 31 years later I purchased a book by Claudia Furiati titled "ZR Rifle: The Plot To Kill KennedyAnd Castro". The author traveled from her home in Brazil to Cuba and was granted the first ever interview with Cuba's chief of counter intelligence, General Fabian Escalante, who was in charge of Cuban units that infiltrated the CIA controlled anti Castro groups in the United States...There was mention of a CIA handled "Operation 40" formed in January 1960 which took it's name under the auspices of the National Security Council "the Group of 40" whose job it was to find a short term solution for the Cuban situation by provoking a general uprising of the Cuban people... The person that was dispensing millions of dollars of cash that went through no financial institutions was at that time referred to as a "businessman" complete with the parentheses like in the newspaper article. He also resided in Midland Texas, managed Nixon's presidential campaign at the time of Watergate and managed to have plumber Felix Rodriquez avoid prosecution for his involvement in the break in... It is strange to me that this same man claimed to never be involved with the CIA except for being it's director years later and was also said to have been in Dallas on November 22 1963 but cannot remember where he was on that day.... I can't help but believe that George Herbert Walker Bush was up to his ears involved in what happened that beautiful sunshiny Friday in Dallas just shy of 47 years ago.... Madeline Brown's son Steven was a friend of mine, we talked but he never hung out with any of the kids in the neighborhood.

Text

edit on 2-10-2010 by hypervigilant because: I needed to correct a sentence and a final sentence that was an afterthought

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 03:31 AM by Wolfenz

Originally posted by heartsfan
Hi all.

I have been a long time lurker on here but would like to have my say on a small part of the JFK Assassination. Namely the headshot.

I have been interested in the assassination since I was 12 years old (I am 32 now). I have been to Dallas 3 times (1998, 1999 and 2004). I have countless books on the subject .... some very imformative, some pretty laughable.

Now here is what I have to say about the headshot ......

Most books, researchers, websites etc ..... always put the grassy knoll shooter at the right hand side of the knoll near the corner of the fence toward Zapruder (e.g. Badgeman, or where the shooter is in the film JFK or where Rising Against shows him - see below).

Now here is Rising Againsts images - I will use these as an example but the same can be said for any shooter on the right hand side of the knoll:

Look at the angles ...... any shot from these positions and the bullet would exit NOT out the back of JFKs head BUT THE LEFT SIDE of his head and maybe have even hit Jackie. There was no damage to the left side of the head or back left side. Most of the Dallas doctors that treated JFK said there was a hole in the BACK RIGHT of his head.

Now to me the most plausible angle for the headshot is one that I have read about a few times and I done a drawing in MS Paint a few years ago now which shows where it is (excuse my laughable drawing skills please. lol):

This shooter position would give the perfect angle for the headshot, especially the exit wound at the back right of JFKs head.

Lets see what you guys think about this.

If I get time I can put up a lot of info on the assassination if any members want me to.

The Only Problem i have with this Shooter ( One in all White ) ! if he took the Fatal Shot the 3rd Shot!
and by the time Clint Hill ! got to Kennedy's Limo at least 5 seconds after!
then why would the Shooter still have his gun raised!!? is he saying please take a picture of me ! ?
or was he going to kill Jackie or Hill too .. ?

as there is many photos or video of 4 shooters! and maybe one more

1) Grassy knoll Fence Line possible James Files
See above
2) the white Outline on top of Memorial Structure Standing Position
See Above

3) the Police Officer (Badgeman) as it Show outline of badge and arm Patch decal

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:NkAulp_CNPSy4M:img216.imageshack.us...&t=1[/img]
4) The Patsy Oswald as No Photos of him Shooting at the TBSD

and don't forget the Men with the Walkies Talkies ! sitting at the Curb and acting calm with no reaction as a Group of people are running up the Knoll

The Dark-Complected Man and Umbrella Man relax after the shooting

Talking on the Radio

Now what would of happen if Clint Hill & Henry Rybka
the SS Agents that were that were assigned to be at the rear of Kennedy's Limo
Note: Rybka Left in dismay and refused to hop on Johnson's Limo with Clint hill and was Reported back to
Air Force One ... as it has been rumored

this would of been a different kind of story would it not ?

YouTube Link

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 04:46 AM by Rising Against

reply to post by randomname

he was clearly shoot from the back, at the moment his head explodes his body goes slightly forward, his jerking back could have been caused by the secret service agent hitting the gas as soon as he heard the shot.

So you're saying "the secret service agent" more commonly known as "William Greer" hit the gas at the exact same time as the shot was heard even though previously when hearing shots (the shot to Kennedy's back/throat) he simply slowed down and turned round to see him?

I'm not buying it, Especially since in split second Kennedy's head moves forwards and then backwards and to the left quite violently not giving Greer enough time to react.

Even if he was given enough time to react though I'm still not buying it as it was clearly shown in the film that it was the shot to his right temple that caused the head movement, not the car.

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 04:59 AM by Rising Against

reply to post by mayabong

Thanks for the kind comments first of all and my apologies for missing out information such as the Israeli connection or the Marilyn Monroe connection or even the Bush family connection for example but I really must stress that reasoning for this was because my primary aim with this thread was to bring all the important information involved with the actual assassination itself and the closest people to that instead of going all out and looking at every possible angle or every possible motive by anyone ever.

That's why I have sections on Oswald and just below that on Ruby and Officer Tippet and the warren commotion and so on instead of sections on the bay of pigs operation or cuba as a whole for example. The assassination itself is what I really wanted to focus on as I’m more than convinced there is a conspiracy there and that’s what I wanted to try and show here.

Anyway, again I thank you for your kind comments and I’d love to talk about the Israeli connection or anything else I didn’t discuss much in the thread here if you wish (or even U2U’s lol ) as It's something I could learn a lot more about myself.

edit on 2-10-2010 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 05:09 AM by Rising Against

reply to post by heartsfan

If I get time I can put up a lot of info on the assassination if any members want me to.

Now, I'm not convinced of anything at all yet but that was a great post and if you can add more information then please do as I for one would love to see it!

I found this as well and thought it was worth sharing.

I'm not sure exactly how accurate it is but I thought it was worth bringing up and I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

edit on 2-10-2010 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 05:19 AM by fooks

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by fooks

I'm not sure who this post is directed at so I'll just reply to it myself and well..errmm.. I have no idea what you are talking about in all honesty.

ok where was the bullit proof top and

Why would a bullet proof vest be brought up here? Or why would one be needed as at the time no one knew (or was supposed to know) about an assassination apart from the assassin. As far as anyone was concerned this was an opportunity to see the president and for the president to see the people.

no vest was mentioned.

why didn't they put it on the car?

The above answers your second question.

who talked whom out of it?

Who talked whom out of what?

Can you please clarify what you are talking about please?

who's big idea was it to let him go out there without the top of the car on?

reply posted on 2-10-2010 @ 06:42 AM by heartsfan

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by heartsfan

If I get time I can put up a lot of info on the assassination if any members want me to.

Now, I'm not convinced of anything at all yet but that was a great post and if you can add more information then please do as I for one would love to see it!

I found this as well and thought it was worth sharing.

I'm not sure exactly how accurate it is but I thought it was worth bringing up and I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

edit on 2-10-2010 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

Concerning the storm drain/sewer shot. The last time I visited Dallas I bought a magazine about the assassination and it had these images in it:

Where the storm drain/sewer is situated: