Terrorists In WI Assault Citizens With Violence And Extortion

reply to post by Curiousisall


A few questions for you...
What if I am a stranger in your town,with a CCW license
recognized by your state,how am I to know that you
don't allow guns on your property?Read a magic8ball?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

A few questions for you...
What if I am a stranger in your town,with a CCW license
recognized by your state,how am I to know that you
don't allow guns on your property?Read a magic8ball?

That is only one question and I am so glad you finally asked.

I have a sign posted.

reply to post by Curiousisall


Finally,you admit that you have a sign!
You just had to go on and on...bye

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

Finally,you admit that you have a sign!
You just had to go on and on...bye

Finally you ASKED!!!!!
You just had to go on and on though, right? Bye, troll. Obviously you cannot address the point that I have a right to govern my property the way I wish but you spent and entire page arguing with me anyway, just to run off when you finally realize how much time you wasted with your assumption?

"Admit" indeed!

Seemed a bit presumptuous to just come in here and start arguing with me that I needed a sign, but you did it anyway. I even tossed you many hints that you were just assuming things and should ask but you were so steadfast in arguing with me about NOTHING, you barrelled right on through.

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-distorting the constitution and then crying about your fake rights being infringed. Please try to assume less in the future and see if addressing the actual argument works better. I know it does for me.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by hippomchippo
I don't like the way police operate myself either.
But, do you agree with people bringing firearms to family restaurants as a way to provoke a response?
I think it's obvious thats what these people were doing.

Visiting a restaurant while you are carrying a chainsaw, a pocket knife, or a gun makes no difference. If you aren't threatening anyone, I don't know how that could be considered "provoking a response".

edit on 27-9-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

Personally, I don't think we should bring ANY weapons to a family restaurant.
Do you really think these guys just brought their guns by accident?
There is NO reason for them to bring guns here, so I'm thinking that it was to try to get a response.

Right, because no "bad guy" has ever, or would ever bring HIS weapon into a family restaruant, because that's just bad taste. Right? So no "good guys" should ever have to defend themselves or their family from a "bad guy" in a family restaurant, because lets face it, that just never ever happens....right? Care to look into that a bit? Maybe bring us some statistics showing how it is universally understood by both bad and good guys that nobody ever robs a "family restaurant"?

Man, the level of "kidding ones self" that folks are willing to aspire to these days just BLOWS my FREAKIN' MIND!

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by mnemeth1

If a person is going to rob you, your "house rules" aren't going to matter much anyways.

No, my guns will do. The police will do. A room full of complete strangers need not apply. Where did you learn to handle guns that they suggested a crowded room full of strangers is a good place for every gun owner to start shooting?

Now if a person tries to rob you while you have armed customers in the house, I'll bet he doesn't succeed.

Unless it is 2 or more of my customers who now have more guns on my property than me, right?

Nice logic. Try thinking. Tell me where these great robbers are that announce they are robbers before they enter.

edit on 28-9-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

"Armed Citizens Make Fewer Mistakes Than Police"

"Don't think that just because the police are trained in the use of firearms that they are less likely to kill an innocent person. A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. Do the math. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general. OK, that is a little misleading. Let's just include the 80,000,000 gun owning citizens. Now the police are down to only a 1200 times higher accidental shooting rate than the gun-owning population in general."

Just saying...

actionamerica.org...

Anyhow, back to the point of the topic.

I totally get what you're saying here mnemeth. And it's frustrating that someone felt the need to call emergency services just because they see someone peacefully armed.

Word has it that WI will soon be in good stead for shall-issue concealed carry licensing soon. Maybe that will help alleviate some of the fears of the timid.

Originally posted by Kilber
"Armed Citizens Make Fewer Mistakes Than Police"

Yeah well here is the rub. If the police shoot someone in my restaraunt that is bad and between them and the victim. That sucks and there is a chance I will be the victim. There is a chance I will be hit by a drunk driver too but I can mitigate those chances. If a customer shoots anyone on my property, including a "bad guy" that becomes a tangled web of legal problems for ME.

I said, I have my guns. You people can argue that you feel the need to carry your guns anywhere you want all day, it will not make it a right. If you need your gun to go out to eat with your family, maybe you need to eat in better places?

I do not even understand how an armed customer is going to help me during an armed robbery. If I have a gun pointed at me, how will having two guns pointed at me and an even more tense and nervous robber help me?

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by Kilber
"Armed Citizens Make Fewer Mistakes Than Police"

If a customer shoots anyone on my property, including a "bad guy" that becomes a tangled web of legal problems for ME.

And there lies the problem. A dirt bag can come to your place to rob you and do you harm (disregarding your sign), and you can be prosecuted for defending your property, or be held accountable for someone elses actions.

I wouldn't be surprised if you called the cops, they showed up, shot and killed the robber, and then the robbers family sued you for wrongful death since your phone call to the cops led to the death. Dog eat dog, eh?

Originally posted by stasis
Anyhow, back to the point of the topic.

I totally get what you're saying here mnemeth. And it's frustrating that someone felt the need to call emergency services just because they see someone peacefully armed.

Word has it that WI will soon be in good stead for shall-issue concealed carry licensing soon. Maybe that will help alleviate some of the fears of the timid.

That is why I do not understand why anyone wanted to waste all that time trolling about a %&$*ing sign! I never even argued with the OP about anything in the OP. If they could open carry in this place then it is a shame that someone called the cops. It is an even bigger shame if the cops confiscated and issued fines without due process. I am not exactly a huge fan of the cops and I seem to see them overstep their bounds quite often. Somehow the story then morphed into this argument about rights and this happened.

Originally posted by slinger

Originally posted by hippomchippo
I know I never leave to go to a restaurant without some sort of firearm by my side.

If you do or don't is not the issue, the 2nd amendment to the constitution is! If I wish to its my right!

Even the OP points out that you need to have permission by the owner. I am all for following the constitution and excercising your rights but there is a trend of late of some people to allow their supposed rights to morph into something that then does infringe upon the rights of others, just because they do not agree with others.

I do not agree that everyone who can buy a gun should have one. I do not agree everyone with a driver's license should be allowed to drive but this is the world I live in and they have those rights. I may not agree but would not actively attempt to do anything to infring upon those rights. In that same vein, I have rights too. I have my right to bear arms and I do. I have my right to run my business the way I choose within certain legal paremeters.

I guess what I see is some people may have wrongfully had their guns taken from them and some people seem to think this is a good excuse to then push their right to carry a gun past the bounds of that actual right into a place where it actually does indeed infringe upon the rights of others.
Along those same lines, if there was a Mexican standoff in my place of business that resulted in a lethal discharge, I am pretty sure that might work well to push to do away with certain gun rights. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation if you actually care about individual liberty. I am an individual and I have rights too.

Anyone that has actually been in a situation where arms are freed in a threatening manner know that just having a room full of ordinary people with guns only makes things worse and raises the odds of someone getting shot. I like my guns. I like shooting. I like knowing that if need be, I do have them for protection. I just prefer to be surrounded by as few strangers with guns as possible and I do not understand why that is a problem if I do that on my property.

The story in the OP and threads like this keep turning into an over the top pro-gun thread that almost makes me think some of these people are actually working for the other side. Screaming and yelling about how you need the right to open carry at family restaraunts does not exactly make one appear to be too concerned with reality.

Just sayin.

Originally posted by Kilber


And there lies the problem. A dirt bag can come to your place to rob you and do you harm (disregarding your sign), and you can be prosecuted for defending your property, or be held accountable for someone elses actions.

Or maybe not. Unlike with the customer shooting someone where it is a given. Do you gamble?

I wouldn't be surprised if you called the cops, they showed up, shot and killed the robber, and then the robbers family sued you for wrongful death since your phone call to the cops led to the death. Dog eat dog, eh?

I would be amazed if that case went anywhere. How often does that happen? Any instances?

Basically what you are saying is that if given the choice between definite legal trouble and maybe legal trouble, I should go with the way that would guarantee legal trouble?

I am curious if some of you really just like to attack people for lack of anything else to do? No one is proving my assertion is wrong, you are all just wandering off into this peripheral BS in order to argue some more.

You do not have the right, in the constitution, to ignore my wishes on my property. Furthermore, why should you want to? Do you want my cousin Freddy coming to your house with his guns?

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

A few questions for you...
What if I am a stranger in your town,with a CCW license
recognized by your state,how am I to know that you
don't allow guns on your property?Read a magic8ball?

That is only one question and I am so glad you finally asked.

I have a sign posted.

edit on 28-9-2010 by Curiousisall because: ETA finally due to an entire page of misdirected argument based on the faulty ASSUMPTION I did not have a sign because it was never asked.

So why would you disarm your law-abiding customers? Because obviously "the sign" isn't going to stop any criminals intent on robbing you or your customers.
I'm just curious about the logic behind your choice.

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by Kilber


And there lies the problem. A dirt bag can come to your place to rob you and do you harm (disregarding your sign), and you can be prosecuted for defending your property, or be held accountable for someone elses actions.

Or maybe not. Unlike with the customer shooting someone where it is a given. Do you gamble?

I wouldn't be surprised if you called the cops, they showed up, shot and killed the robber, and then the robbers family sued you for wrongful death since your phone call to the cops led to the death. Dog eat dog, eh?

I would be amazed if that case went anywhere. How often does that happen? Any instances?

Basically what you are saying is that if given the choice between definite legal trouble and maybe legal trouble, I should go with the way that would guarantee legal trouble?

I am curious if some of you really just like to attack people for lack of anything else to do? No one is proving my assertion is wrong, you are all just wandering off into this peripheral BS in order to argue some more.

You do not have the right, in the constitution, to ignore my wishes on my property. Furthermore, why should you want to? Do you want my cousin Freddy coming to your house with his guns?

Now you're the one assuming. I never said you had no right to post a sign barring people from entering with a gun. I'm pointing out problems with the SYSTEM, not YOU or YOUR business.

While my example is extreme, it's meant to show the degredation of law abiding citizens' rights, while in life threatening situations. No, I don't mean the right for people to carry in YOUR business. I mean the right for you to defend your property and to allow others to do the same without chance of legal recourse for frivolous reasons.

P.S. Yes, I gamble.

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

I keep telling you...
GET A SIGN ON YOUR DOOR!

I am telling you
PUT A FRONT DOOR ON YOUR HOUSE!

Unless you serve alcohol, I can carry
in your business.

No, you cannot. I have asked you to show me where the right to bear trumps my private property rights.

I don't open carry,I
have a conceal carry.My gun is in my
purse and I'm also a grandmother.

I have two cats. They like to look out the back door during the day. Sometimes I drink wildberry tea. I need new slippers.

Are you going to search everyone for
a gun,or would it be easier to get a sign?

Keep assuming things, that is getting you somewhere aint it?

I think you should have a talk with your
business attorney.Since you seem determined
to undermine the rights of others,make sure you don't
undermine your own.

Undermine the rights of others? Are you insane? No one has the right to bring a gun onto my property if I do not want them to. That is NOT A RIGHT.

You act like I am forcing people to come to my restaraunt. People have the right to NOT COME. I have no problem with that. Why do you need to pretend I am doing anything to anyone? I am carrying out my rights on my property, as you can do with yours.

Please explain to me why you believe you have any rights on my property that go against my wishes??????

Interesting all the way around. The OP makes the point that the police overreacted, as they usually do. Then they seem to start arguing against the right of business owners not to carry out their rights, which are just as important as the individuals, who's rights were violated. The old lady that called the cops is currently sitting in about 20,000,000 restaurants right now by the way...also, props to this being one of the funniest responses to the repeated non-attacks masquerading as attacks I have seen in a while.

Name calling, "Idiots" "Libtards" "Democrats dead" etc...when no one challenged/asseted anything but a gun and business owner who seems to have his/her head on straight. Sorry, this entire debate was like watching an adult talk in circles with some seventh graders who are not perceptive enough to agree and move forward with positive dialogue. Business owner 1, non-sensical attacking ATS people, 0. Thanks for some normalcy in regard to debate Curiousisall. It was refreshing to see a rational argument and you kept your cool throughout. Also, you should write a blog. I particularly like the lines about drinking wildberry tea and needing new slippers.

ColoradoJens

I don't really grasp why people aren't understanding that these five men were in no wrong what so ever.

They're in a state which doesn't require one to own a license to open carry a firearm. The police officers went into the frozen treat restaurant in the wrong basically disarming law abiding citizens without cause.

Yup, I'd call that state organized terrorism.

Starred and flagged.

Originally posted by tjack
So why would you disarm your law-abiding customers? Because obviously "the sign" isn't going to stop any criminals intent on robbing you or your customers.
I'm just curious about the logic behind your choice.

Because it is my right.

Are you saying there should be no private property rights? If you do not like my judgement, that is just to bad but why do you feel the need to impose your rights onto mine?

I will go toe to toe with a nervous robber that has to reach into has pants or jacket to get his hidden weapon over one that has his on his hip, ready to pull anyday. It is my right to run my own business that way, isn't it?

Originally posted by Kilber
Now you're the one assuming. I never said you had no right to post a sign barring people from entering with a gun. I'm pointing out problems with the SYSTEM, not YOU or YOUR business.

While my example is extreme, it's meant to show the degredation of law abiding citizens' rights, while in life threatening situations. No, I don't mean the right for people to carry in YOUR business. I mean the right for you to defend your property and to allow others to do the same without chance of legal recourse for frivolous reasons.

So why are you arguing with me? I have my guns, I defend myself and my property. What is your issue?

P.S. Yes, I gamble.

Well when given the choice between guaranteed legal trouble and the chance of some crazy 3rd party lawsuit that will be thrown out of court, you suggested I go with the former.

Obviously pointing out there are actual limits to the 2nd ammendment is very upsetting to some people. I would suggest you all start eating at nicer places.

reply to post by Kilber


That is what has happened to this thread,it has devolved
into a twisted, poker game with our posts as the cards.
With one member holding the trump card,knowing full well
that he had a sign on his business,while the rest of us
didn't know.
Since I am a christian lady,I don't gamble at all.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


First of all, like I say before most of the time when my husband does the driving I don't even carry a purse or wallet and go everywhere here in GA, never been stop and asked for identification, because in Ga is not required.

Second, here in Ga my husband carry his weapon anywhere we go, unless the place we are visiting have specifications on arms.

Now obviously it varies state to state.

Here's an interesting news clip about a business owner who "gets it". Seems relevant to this ...ahem...discussion.

www.kens5.com...

Smith said, more than anything, the new policy was intended to send a message to would-be robbers. "I’m not a robber, but if I was, I’m not going into some place where I thought there was somebody with a gun ready to fire at me," said Ken Lane, a bank customer.

Way to go, Ed Smith! If I could, I would switch to YOUR bank today!