Terrorists In WI Assault Citizens With Violence And Extortion

This is silly. First off why would it be considered poor taste to carry a firearm into a family restaurant? What a crock! I see it all the time and nobody bats an eyelash! Would you think it was in poor taste if they were 5 cops carrying their weapons into a family restaurant? Probably not. These people have every right to open carry their firearms and not be intimidated! People do it all the time in Phoenix! I feel sorry for those of you that assume that if someone is openly carrying they are automatically out looking for a fight. I'm sure all the little old men that carry their firearms here are out looking for trouble instead of practicing their 2nd ammendment rights.

Next, at least in Phoenix again, you don't need any kind of license to carry a firearm whatsoever. And you don't need ID if you are out and about either. You need one if you are driving.

Those of you who cringe or shy away from a citizen because they have a holstered firearm out in plain view have been well trained to be afraid of your rights by the fascist government. Sad...

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi

 

You don't need to have ID on you in public in Maryland.

The violence and extortion came from the police detaining peaceful men, disarming them at gun point, and then issuing a citation for a crime that did not occur.

Further, all 5 men were charged with disorderly conduct. You would know this if you bothered to read the OP.

edit on 27-9-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

If you can prove that you don't need to have an ID when in public and you are over the 18 years of age in Baltimore County, I'd rescind my point. Many states have common Stop and Identify laws. From your article:

"statute does not require an actual disturbance take place, only that conduct in question is of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance"

You can not look at yourself and intelligently say that it is a smart idea to go to a family restaurant carrying-open no matter how legal it is. The cops are going to get called by someone, be it a paranoid old woman or a concerned citizen who doesn't know the law. When they do get called, they are going to question you after taking your gun for their safety. This is not violence, it is procedure. If procedure is broken, some cops tend to get trigger happy.

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
Those of you who cringe or shy away from a citizen because they have a holstered firearm out in plain view have been well trained to be afraid of your rights by the fascist government. Sad...

edit on 27-9-2010 by Redwookieaz because: Edit 4 S&G

If by cringe or shy away, you really mean developed an intelligent approach to stay out of possible encounters with law enforcement, yes. There are too many other ways of discreet personal protection to say that it is a wise idea to open yourself to the cops getting called on you.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


How can I prove a negative?

The onus is on you to demonstrate that this is a law.

It's not.

So have fun digging through ten million pages of law trying to find something that doesn't exist.

Such a law would violate every tenet of the 4th amendment that guarantees us the right to be secure in our papers and person against unreasonable search and seizure.

As for the disorderly conduct charge:

If what you say is true, then the police must be charged with criminal conspiracy because they gave the guns back to the men after they were fined.

If they really were disturbing the peace with their guns, then the guns should not have been given back.

Since the police gave them back - either no crime was committed or the police are guilty of a crime themselves.

reply to post by mnemeth1


As much as I don't like the laws and the procedures, what are these people expected to do? Draw fire on the cops? Hire a fancy lawyer to have the case overthrown?

Toting around a gun openly is for protection, there were many other protection options that wouldn't have had the cops called.

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

As much as I don't like the laws and the procedures, what are these people expected to do? Draw fire on the cops? Hire a fancy lawyer to have the case overthrown?

Toting around a gun openly is for protection, there were many other protection options that wouldn't have had the cops called.

Apparently they are expected to pay up or face State sanctioned violence.

The whole ordeal is an exercise in extortion.

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Toting around a gun openly is for protection, there were many other protection options that wouldn't have had the cops called.

Such as? Besides this is a non issue, they didn't brake any laws. Cops just slammed one of those 'charge anyone anytime' charges on them.

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Toting around a gun openly is for protection, there were many other protection options that wouldn't have had the cops called.

Such as? Besides this is a non issue, they didn't brake any laws. Cops just slammed one of those 'charge anyone anytime' charges on them.

Concealed carry, a balisong, a pen, about anything can be used as a weapon, just depends on what you are willing to carry. If you are willing to subject yourself to getting the cops called on you because your weapon is in plain sight, even if it is legal, thats up to you.

As far as it being an "anywhere, anytime" charge, this was not a random incident where the cops were driving by and randomly spotted this group. They were summoned by an emergency phone call.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


It's not just about defending yourself man. That isn't even the biggest point. The point is to freely practice your rights! I personally think it is smarter to carry concealed for protection. You get a great deal less unwanted attention. But you carry your firearm out in public as a statement that you will not be intimidated into not exercising your rights! That is why open carry is a good thing! If you don't use your freedom, you will lose it!

Reply to post by hippomchippo

Ok, just the first thing that popped into my head. Why would you bring a gun to a family restaurant? For the same reason you'd bring it any where else, to protect yourself and your family. Personally I see it as a smarter move to get your CCW and have your weapon concealed as not draw the unnecessary attention. I'll admit it seems a bit odd that 5 men all felt the need to carry openly, there may well have been an agenda, then again, I wasn't there and don't know the guys or cops involved, so everything I'm saying is really just conjecture.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


Disorderly conduct is an "anytime anywhere for any reason" citation.

If the cops don't like what you are doing, they will cite you for DC, even if what you are doing is perfectly legal.

Disorderly conduct crimes should have been ruled unconstitutional decades ago. The liberals like to keep them around though so they can use them as boot-in-the-face tyranny to keep the public in check.

Protesting outside of a "free speech zone?" - disorderly conduct.

Legally carrying a gun in public? - disorderly conduct.

Swearing at a cop? - disorderly conduct.

etc... etc.. etc..

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


not arizona and not wisconsin evidently but i cant speak for the other states i know from az as my uncle lives there and dosent go any where without his .357 with hollow points

reply to post by mnemeth1


i dont think thats the case in all 50 in california i think its required and a few other states but i dont know which ones off hand

Originally posted by KilrathiLG
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

i dont think thats the case in all 50 in california i think its required and a few other states but i dont know which ones off hand

Carrying an ID in public is not mandatory in any state.

This is not East Germany.

Yet.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by hippomchippo
I don't like the way police operate myself either.
But, do you agree with people bringing firearms to family restaurants as a way to provoke a response?
I think it's obvious thats what these people were doing.

Visiting a restaurant while you are carrying a chainsaw, a pocket knife, or a gun makes no difference. If you aren't threatening anyone, I don't know how that could be considered "provoking a response".

edit on 27-9-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

Personally, I don't think we should bring ANY weapons to a family restaurant.
Do you really think these guys just brought their guns by accident?
There is NO reason for them to bring guns here, so I'm thinking that it was to try to get a response.

Are the good posters of ATS really this stupid? It is not illegal to open carry in Wisconsin did you not read that part? Or are you selectively leaving it out? You seem to live on assumptions and fear. What a combination.



They did not break any laws. And just like the gentlemen arrested in Milwaukee this will be overturned. TPTB rule by using fear and just like this poster has shown it works.

you appear to be correct sir there is no federal law requireing you have id on you at any given time but when opperating a vehicle BUT it could have been brought up through a terry stop i belive the term is they might have refused to identafy them selves to the police which is illegal in many areas

i re read the article a few times but i didnt see SPECIFICLY what happend when the police got there other then some old lady got scared and called the cops cuz of her conscience

reply to post by KilrathiLG


They did identify themselves.

They just didn't provide ID.

Since they were doing nothing wrong to begin with, a terry stop against them is an illegal act by the police. Police must have probable cause that a crime had been committed before they can conduct a terry stop.

im not dobuting you but i couldnt find the part where it said they were messed with due to the fact that they didnt have id i may have read it wrong but if you could show me the passage that would help me vastly if they did respond to a 911 call thats usualy all the excuse the cops need to show off there power not saying its right just saying its what they will usualy do

Originally posted by slinger

Originally posted by hippomchippo
I know I never leave to go to a restaurant without some sort of firearm by my side.

If you do or don't is not the issue, the 2nd amendment to the constitution is! If I wish to its my right!

No it is not.

Your right to carry a gun stops at the front door of my restaraunt.

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Your right to carry a gun stops at the front door of my restaraunt.

Tell that to the next guy that robs your restaurant at gun point.

I find that most violent criminals have a deep respect for gun laws and private property rights.