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If only all Christians were this open-minded...

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posted on Sep, 28 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Obviously you think we're 'buttheads' for lack of a better word that is censor friendly.

But you have made it clear that you will dismiss, deride, or disregard our beliefs and comments because you simply dislike us, or our lack of theist belief.


All of your arguments lead to nowhere, its just accusations upon more accusations. And bad accusations at that - all Christians are evil and have an agenda to persecute nonbelievers - thats not a belief, its being obtuse. Simply placing groups of people into generalized categories without the appreciation of ambiguity and denying the interminable spectrum of individual idiosyncrasies is just plain childish. That is what I have a problem with, not your atheism.

You categorize all Christians in one group without ever acknowledging the fact that there are many schools of Christianity that literally have different beliefs and interpretations of the Bible. Also you deny the fact that it is the individuals that attend theses schools of thought and belief, and that each individual will have their own collection of beliefs no matter what they are told.

I dismiss you because your arguments and comments have no substance, they are nothing but speculations and accusations, and most of them are fabricated. You have constantly accused me of persecuting your beliefs, where non has been made. I respect your beliefs its the content of your reasoning that annoys me.


You are being combative by distinctly avoiding discussing the initial quote and claims thereafter - especially the one about the right wing power grab using anti-muslim rhetoric and Christian religious propaganda. Discuss / debate that, and you're on your road to rational enquiry of your religion. Throw me a bone.

Parallex.


The comment about Christian propaganda grabbing power using anti-muslim rhetoric may be true to some extent. I won't deny that, I just don't know if its actually taking place. But to say that every Christian is in on this is just asinine. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the quote in the original post. The quote states that all religions are subject to scrutiny for the ultimate goal of attaining the truth - explain to me how this quote connects with your comments about Christianity being utilized by the right wing to grab power.




posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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This thread is going nowhere. But it's what the quote in the OP was talking about.

I am a christian. I am also a conspiracy theorist. I am also a father.

Any one of the above could at any point have done a disservice to you. But the second you approach me as "one of the above" and not as my own person, you have just disrespected me.

Unless you can respect me DESPITE disagreeing with my beliefs, then you are acting shamefully. Unless you can give respect to your enemies, then respect for friends is merely a show.

Now we're all "friends" here, so whats up with this? We're here out of a common desire to find out more of what we don't know, and hopefully share what we do. Despite being from different countries, languages and social ideas, the is a conspiracy forum, we have that.

The real conspiracy is that we've been divided, not by each other, not even by our beliefs or practices. And frankly, if you don't understand how another's beliefs are positive, even when you disagree with them, then you aren't going anywhere. I won't say i particularly like muslims, my experience is similar to what some here perceive as christian, however, we really have more in commmon than not.

To answer the second poster in this thread, whose measure was the legality of it, well screw legality. It's what got us in the mess in the first place. One day soon it will be illegal to worship the flying spagetti monster (even) ... it is against THAT day that we should all prepare.

If i wish to worship the flying spaghetti monster, cthulu, god, shiva, or my own bumfluff, then i should. And if you decide that based on that alone you may deride me, well then you really are the problem.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
This thread is going nowhere. But it's what the quote in the OP was talking about.

I am a christian. I am also a conspiracy theorist. I am also a father.

Any one of the above could at any point have done a disservice to you. But the second you approach me as "one of the above" and not as my own person, you have just disrespected me.

Unless you can respect me DESPITE disagreeing with my beliefs, then you are acting shamefully. Unless you can give respect to your enemies, then respect for friends is merely a show.

If i wish to worship the flying spaghetti monster, cthulu, god, shiva, or my own bumfluff, then i should. And if you decide that based on that alone you may deride me, well then you really are the problem.


I completely agree with the entirety of your post, especially the above quoted sections.

All - Freedom is the important issue. My view that Christianity, (like most organised state sponsored religions) curtails this freedom is MY view - and I consider it to be the truth. Debating this issue is my aim, and I welcome opinions and thoughts on THIS matter, rather than just ad hominem attacks against me.

Parallex.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Parallex
All - Freedom is the important issue. My view that Christianity, (like most organised state sponsored religions) curtails this freedom is MY view - and I consider it to be the truth. Debating this issue is my aim, and I welcome opinions and thoughts on THIS matter, rather than just ad hominem attacks against me.

Parallex.


Hold on there Parallex.

You're not supporting freedom, you're denying it to others? On the precept that your own freedoms need to be protected?

You've moved away from "belief" and into "freedom" ... and unfortunately you're forgetting that both freedom and belief need rules. My beliefs as a christian would be laughable if i murdered someone. My belief is that when confronted with someone who is begging to have their head bashed in, that i do the "right" thing and calmly walk away. The same goes for freedom, i am free to de-brain said moron, BUT i would then be impinging on his freedom to be a moron ... which is where the state steps in. But belief is stronger than freedom, because you can remove the freedom, but never the belief, however once you remove belief, then freedom is meaningless.

Freedom is like a kite. It can take you high in the skies blowing with the wind, BUT, it requires the string to be free. Cut the string and it's not free anymore, it's rubbish, or would be within seconds. It's all very well to say i want to fly my kite, but their kites offend me. So they must stop flying their kite, so i can fly mine.

You can believe whatever you want, only if you allow the same to others. And unfortunately your view of freedom is incompatible with other's having beliefs .... that you don't share. Remember too, that in this exchange of your freedoms for my own, we both lose something. We both have to give up something.

If i can use ourselves as an example: I'm a christian, i u2u you about it. you tell me to sod off cos all christians are morons. (likely event, no?) So where would middle ground be? Where i don't send you "christian" messages and where you don't insult me, even if you think that message was "too christian". it's a fine line to be sure, but surely we both have to accept that the other also has ... "wiggle room"? Forgiving others before accusing them? i don't care that it's a "christian" message, it's a human one too. See, christianity has some good :p

Also, remember a few things (about christianity, but also others) ... very few ever get their beliefs right. Belief is not about what you say, but how you live. The downside of course is that a whole bunch of people who aren't LIVING Christ's messages are claiming to be his disciples. Leaving people to misunderstand christianity completely. And when you misunderstand something, it's even easier to fear it or hate it.

Ok, this post is long enough


PS, the other thing is about listening, instead of speaking, thats the other thing most people get wrong.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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I think its funny how many christianity bashers on this forum adamantly claim the US was NOT founded on christianity and yet they spew this propaganda that the actions of corruption, greed, and aggressive oppressive behavior is a product of American Christian traditional fundamentalism.

Narcissists such as these should be easily written off as propagandists. Pay them no mind.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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All - Freedom is the important issue. My view that Christianity, (like most organised state sponsored religions) curtails this freedom is MY view - and I consider it to be the truth. Debating this issue is my aim, and I welcome opinions and thoughts on THIS matter, rather than just ad hominem attacks against me.
Parallex.


Just to clarify, this issue has nothing to do with Priestly's quote in the OP.
The quote addresses the validity of religions not the political agenda that you wish to discuss.


Don't act like a typical Christian apologist and simply dismiss it out of hand - discuss the point, PROVE it isn't true.

The extent of your debate is - you accuse, but I need to prove your wrong. This is why I lost my patience.

The burden of proof rests on you. The only arguments brought to the table are stereotypes, accusations and nothing but. My patience was lost because of that, not because you question my beliefs. Now if you can bring some examples, instances, I will be more than happy to discuss this with you. But to simply accuse Christians of being irrational lunatics is not a discussion. To tell me that I'm a dangerous, aggressive Christian that scares you is not an argument. And to state that religion is a threat without supplementing that point and furthermore to tell me to prove otherwise is not a debate.



edit on 29-9-2010 by DrChuck because: (no reason given)



edit on 29-9-2010 by DrChuck because: grammatical



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by DrChuck
 





And your sophomoric ploy to entrap me with this inane question amuses me to no end. Really? Come on. You can insult my religion and character, but please, its unfitting to insult my intelligence.


I've not gone out of my way to insult anyone my friend.

So, If your god told you to kill me would you do it ?



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


Read my post again.
2nd line.





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