Originally posted by Parallex
All - Freedom is the important issue. My view that Christianity, (like most organised state sponsored religions) curtails this freedom is MY view -
and I consider it to be the truth. Debating this issue is my aim, and I welcome opinions and thoughts on THIS matter, rather than just ad hominem
attacks against me.
Hold on there Parallex.
You're not supporting freedom, you're denying it to others? On the precept that your own freedoms need to be protected?
You've moved away from "belief" and into "freedom" ... and unfortunately you're forgetting that both freedom and belief need rules. My beliefs
as a christian would be laughable if i murdered someone. My belief is that when confronted with someone who is begging to have their head bashed in,
that i do the "right" thing and calmly walk away. The same goes for freedom, i am free to de-brain said moron, BUT i would then be impinging on his
freedom to be a moron ... which is where the state steps in. But belief is stronger than freedom, because you can remove the freedom, but never the
belief, however once you remove belief, then freedom is meaningless.
Freedom is like a kite. It can take you high in the skies blowing with the wind, BUT, it requires the string to be free. Cut the string and it's not
free anymore, it's rubbish, or would be within seconds. It's all very well to say i want to fly my kite, but their kites offend me. So they must
stop flying their kite, so i can fly mine.
You can believe whatever you want, only if you allow the same to others. And unfortunately your view of freedom is incompatible with other's having
beliefs .... that you don't share. Remember too, that in this exchange of your freedoms for my own, we both lose something. We both have to give up
If i can use ourselves as an example: I'm a christian, i u2u you about it. you tell me to sod off cos all christians are morons. (likely event, no?)
So where would middle ground be? Where i don't send you "christian" messages and where you don't insult me, even if
you think that message
was "too christian". it's a fine line to be sure, but surely we both have to accept that the other also has ... "wiggle room"? Forgiving others
before accusing them? i don't care that it's a "christian" message, it's a human one too. See, christianity has some good :p
Also, remember a few things (about christianity, but also others) ... very few ever get their beliefs right. Belief is not about what you say, but how
you live. The downside of course is that a whole bunch of people who aren't LIVING Christ's messages are claiming to be his disciples. Leaving
people to misunderstand christianity completely. And when you misunderstand something, it's even easier to fear it or hate it.
Ok, this post is long enough
PS, the other thing is about listening, instead of speaking, thats the other thing most people get wrong.