My outlay of twenty twelve: Do you have a better call? Post it!!!!

On November 4th, 2012 we will have elected a new president if I recall correctly.

The two canidates will be...

In this corner, republican challenger and former speaker of the house

Newt Gingrich

Newton Leroy "Newt" Gingrich (pronounced /ˈnjuːt ˈɡɪŋɡrɪtʃ/; June 17, 1943) is an American politician who served as the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. In 1995, Time magazine selected him as the Person of the Year for his role in leading the Republican Revolution in the House, ending 40 years of the Democratic Party being in the majority. During his tenure as Speaker, he represented the public face of the Republican opposition to President Bill Clinton.

Best known for his contract on America..

oops did I word that wrong...



What to watch out for from this corner...

He climbed to the top of the peak of senatorial power. He did it during the height of clintons presidency....

Of note no proof but I suspect he was behind the Lewinsky issue.

What is missing....
Left his wife for someone else.... his current one????

AND IN THIS CORNER...

The choossssssen one

Barack Hussein Obama II

Barack Hussein Obama II (i /bəˈrɑːk huːˈseɪn oʊˈbɑːmə/; born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States. He is the first African American to hold the office. Obama previously served as a United States Senator from Illinois, from January 2005 until he resigned after his election to the presidency in November 2008.

From the chicago side of America. Best known for NOTHING sticking to him. Birth certificate issues, rigged votes, and not liking those who cling to guns and religion..

Obamacare being passed and not being liked by most of his constituency. (its ok its good for them)

What to watch for from this corner...

Took DOWN the clinton machine at full strength. (down as in ring the bell its over... Backroom deals.)

Does not like being told he is wrong...

What has been left out...

Drug use... no proof he has stopped.

As democrat who is he sleeping with? (kennedy and clinton)

Predictive modeling based on passed performance.




In the start of this, the battle ground will be this years election. Newt needs to quietly ensure the republicans are in charge the next two years. He needs this for the proxy senate house attack that is there style...
(past scandals-- lewinsky and starr)

(you can kiss billions more of your taxes gone)

With this blows he can start seperating obama from his base support..

What he does not see coming... The O-man dropped the clinton machine.... By Ko in the tenth round...

it wont stick... The O-man machine is this... He has a majority grasp on the MSM... The ability to edit the net being added. The R's dont expect the level of dirty play. He will aim below the belt... and aim for newts ca-hones

It will be played in the media as a betrayal, if it comes close....

The race card will not be playable by the o-mans team because it will be a hispanic or african american introducing the charges and or pushing them.

If the O-man is smart he has to ENSURE the democrats hold the fort with the majority... It will be the easiest way to ensure that the republicans have limited launchpads for twenty twelve....

I half expect to see acorn out in force here soon... If not it leans towards the rigging in twenty o eight....

Expect to see some unknown organization going after some part of obamas past... (EX-coke use...) Like the swicc pac did to kerry... (during 2012)

Obama's best shot is to remove the Newtser NOW... Dig up those ethics charges and hit the republicans that are the old dogs. (bring their support of the bailouts during testimony against newt....) If he goes the throat now.. no twenty twelve challenge and he is president for four more years....

So if you want to clean up my post feel free....

I did not mention one thing that will effect 2010 and thus twenty twelve... The Tea Party....

The Tea Party is no longer viewed as an independant organization... It has and is co-opted by the republicans... SO FAR...

To sum it up...

Newster-

2010- republican taking house and senate
Obamacare
Scandal on sexlife on the O-man (note FINANCES WILL NOT DO)

Weakness.....
Wife relationship-
Tea party USING OF
Temper

O-Man -

Stopping taking back of senate- expect some grassroots building
ethics charges and out supporters of newt for bailouts....

Weakness-
Obamacare
likes the attention (temper as well)
acorn...

I call it as close. I do not know who controls the source code... (the one that allows back door changing of votes.)

In the end, Its obama after a long fight. He has to win now so he does not have to fight as long latter. If the dems lose the control watch the claws come out before they leave office...

Why Obama....????

Easy, he not only got out the vote he controlled the rigging better then the republicans. He walked away from all acussations. With the control of MSM, the Supreme Court goes along so, I call it to obama late in the night...

With over billion votes being counted...

How do you see this fight coming out.....

I vote for Jesse Ventura.

I think you have a plausible scenario. My intent is not to argue against it, but I will offer some 'alternative' thoughts to consider. I think Newt is obviously running, but I think he is a has been. he had his chance. Insofar as he did well, okay. Insofar as he didn't, well, he has a lot of negatives. I personally don't think he can pull it off mostly for the same reason Romney won't be able to: No one really likes either one of them. Romney spent a ton of his own personal fortune and still couldn't come close to the nomination. I think Newt is a pretty good background player, but that's where it stops.

The thing that is different now is The Insurgency. (rightnetwork.com...) This is not simply a surge of the right-leaning Republicans against the left-leaning Democrats. It is an insuregency against the Democrat-Republican Party. Look at what is happening in the primaries. Republicans like Castle and Murkowski and Crist are being fired along with the Democrats. They don't like it much and are mounting write-in campaigns, which are doomed to fail. They look like sore losers. This is an insurgency against the power class and if the momentum holds, it will be a game changer.

Today there are certainly some front runners, including Palin. And for those of you who sneer and call her "stupid," I think you are fooling yourselves. Listen to one of her full speeches rather than an excerpt from the Lamestream Media and you will see she has an in-depth knowledge on things like energy matters and foreign policy and she doesn't need a telepromter to do it. Don't ever underestimate Sarah.

My feeling is that the real change will not come from the Republican front-runners of today, but will emerge in a second wave from people like Chris Chritie of New Jersey, Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Herman Cain of Georgia, and Adam West of Florida. These guys are articulate, energetic, and on point. Their message is very straightforward and Middle America loves them. These folks represent a very big monkey wrench in the Obama machine. My estimate: The worse it gets, the better they will do.

I'm not intending to argue the point. It's just my opinion, and time will tell more than you if I'm right.

reply to post by ripcontrol


I don't even see Obama as being a candidate in 2012 after the thumping the dembs will take this Nov.

An Gingrich has so much baggage when he left his first wife with cancer for a younger, prettier, heather woman.
Not even GOP women will vote for that piece of ******!! And Newt is ugly. And in this culture personal attractiveness is more important than any political stance. And the TPM sees Newt as a beltway insider.
www.realchange.org...
If the GOP sides with Newt or whoever the repubs decide to run they will lose to Hillary Clinton.

It's her turn in the barrel.

American politics now has become an industry with all the money changing hands during the campaign. It's more of a media event than anything else. Just an illusion to make the proletariat think they have a choice and input in running the country.

The candidates have already been picked by the real power brokers on a country club golf course in Southern California.
The primaries are also just a show.

I could be wrong but I have picked 4 pres. in a row.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house.

reply to post by ripcontrol


I'm not sure where you get Newt Gingrich as a Presidential candidate at all.

I am not discounting him as a potential candidate but for the life of me he seems dull as Hell.

As for Obama I dare say I see him barely finishing out this current term as President, I'm surprised he made it to office.

Obamaland : Cotton Candy, Gumdrops, and Rainbow Dreams, This is the Land of Collusion

And I do not see him being re-elected considering he's screwed up our country just like Bush.

Self-sabotage of our country is not an endearing quality American's see in a President to re-elect them.

Plus the cotton candy words, gumdrop dreams, and rainbow smiles has worn off on the citizens.

He is Washington D.C. as usual, broken promises, lies and obfuscation, and stealing all the money.

The difference between him and other President's?

He talks more verbose and high-minded sounding while robbing us blind.

reply to post by America?


That is why if I do run and rigg the election I want to ask him to be VP... when they kill me it leaves one mean man in charge......

Jesse Ventura

James George Janos[1] (born July 15, 1951) is an American politician, former governor of Minnesota, Navy UDT veteran, actor, and former radio and television talk show host. As a professional wrestler, he is best known for his nickname, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, and tenure in the World Wrestling Federation as a combatant and color commentator. In 2004, he was inducted into the company's Hall of Fame.[1] In the Minnesota gubernatorial election of 1998, running as an Independent and member of the Reform Party, he was elected the 38th Governor of Minnesota and served from January 4, 1999, to January 6, 2003, without seeking a second term.

Unless of course he decides to run as an independant... I think he could take em down... That would be a helluve a ticket... Let me be the first to suggest it Ventura/ powell 2012....

reply to post by schuyler


The first part of my reasoning was that he had the experience tackling a high profile position and suceeding... It will come down to his VP pick I believe... This is the mode for his nomination I believe we are talking about..

Right now the fight for 2012 lie in the next elections...

I want to take a moment to let all of ATS know this. You call the fight today... Who is picked as your reps will influence the outcome of 2012. I am disappointed in the fact I have seen next to zero threads last on the upcoming elections... This is where the fight is. And there control is not as tight. As for being completely rigged... Of course the game is rigged... It just about knowing the odds... Always try and cut the cards in your favor..

Right now a backroom player is what the republicans need for victory... They dont care about the old gaurd going out they will co-op the new ones...This is a proxy for 2012... its the type of fight Newtster is best at and he can weaken the O-man...

I agree with the people getting mad. I see it being co-opted... with a win in 2012 by them it lead to co-oping.... A loss by them will lead to the dems using them... it seems to come down to a game of chose your master....

BTW the ones who look like losers and the write in bs.... they are the ones being fed to the public... the reformist so called dont look any better to me... I do like your points...

Is it the same herman cain that was in charge of godfathers pizza?

reply to post by ripcontrol


Let me say this. Obama will be fortunate to survive impeachment during his first term. Should he not be banished in the primary by H. Clinton, he will suffer the most lopsided defeat since Jimmy Carter v. Reagen in 1976. The man is revealed to be merely an inept marxist who is in way over his head. His pointy, empty, Kenyan head. You'll see evidence of this coming wave in the elections of 11-2-2010.

So you mean we once again have #ty candidates for the US presidency?

Cool

reply to post by whaaa


It seems to me that their is a certain line left he has not crossed... If it comes down to it... watch pelosi or high profiles get tossed under the bus to save him (crosses fingers....hope they enjoy egypt curtosey of the CIA. )

Hillary sold out...she took the position in the cabinet... to run against the O-man she has to resign.,.,. Thats a violation of the unwritten beltway rules... She is his for four more years, he broke her machine...remember no cash...

As for newtster my earlier post seems to fit it.. he has the morals of my ex-wife....

both have the ..cough necessary morals cough.... to play the game... neither care what the public thinks...

The money thing is true but I have feeling that the two major elections you might just be surprised... someone left the backdoor open........



I like the way you think... I tried to remove more of my emotions to try and get to a better analysis.... I appreciate all the response so far...

Do you have a post game report on your thoughts... I would mid it...add them here or create your own thread... if you do be u2u me and I want to read it... I love different points of view....

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


SKL you have to give more time to respond and organize... you wont my natural tendencies slip with calling on them..

Ok here we go...

I'm not sure where you get Newt Gingrich as a Presidential candidate at all. I am not discounting him as a potential candidate but for the life of me he seems dull as Hell.

Right now I believe the republicans may be using him as general. Or he wormed his way in as one... It would be his price for it.... I dont really see a long republican primary season... They wont want to waste the resources...

He is dull... but it is about the backdoor dealing you pointed out in your other threads... he is one of the ones good at it... I do not like him for what he did to his sick wife.. (i hope the dems are listening bury him with that brush...)

As for Obama I dare say I see him barely finishing out this current term as President, I'm surprised he made it to office. Obamaland : Cotton Candy, Gumdrops, and Rainbow Dreams, This is the Land of Collusion And I do not see him being re-elected considering he's screwed up our country just like Bush. Self-sabotage of our country is not an endearing quality American's see in a President to re-elect them. Plus the cotton candy words, gumdrop dreams, and rainbow smiles has worn off on the citizens.

I cant argue with what I agree with...

The only slight difference is that the democrats will be rolling out the election machine in 2012 with all the weight they can muster..... I expect the amount of money spent to reach the hundreds of billions....

PT Barnum... Theres a sucker born every minutes. and four years have turned time to vote...

as foe the bs he is rolling out... he is a sell out but I do not see a canidate strong enough to knock him down..

I have another theory but I want to wait for more evidence on it..... TY for your reply and the time you took to respond SKL...

How do you see the mids going....

reply to post by astrogolf


If the dems hold he wins 2012 hands down.... If they lose control.... their might be a chance for the emergence of freedom...

I see them pulling out all the stops to win... They stuffed ballots once whose to stop them now...

With that last sentence would someone remind me which party I was refering to...

Another factor is the money... You have to buy all the local commissioners you can...

I think the o-man has a grip enough on his party to hold...




I guess a better title would have been chose your poison for twenty twelve...

reply to post by SpectreDC


Nope... the max will all be cats paw to weaken their opponents.... Enough to draw fire....

I do not see, with the factors present now the chances of another candidate...

I say this because the Tea Party has fallen to republican influence. Now lets say an outside force such as Ventura decides to run... He ask say collin powell to be his running mate or even vice versa That would change the whole outcome...

Remember.... Powell is getting madder and madder at DC...

Dont misrepresent me... Powell

Colin Powell has released a statement saying that he did not misrepresent how the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy would be put into effect to former President Clinton. Mr. Clinton said in an interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, "Now, when Colin Powell sold me on don't ask, don't tell, here's what he said it would be. Gay service members would never get in trouble for going to gay bars, marching in gay rights parades as long as they weren't in uniform."

Now should this man decide to run it is a huge game changer.... Cant play the race card.....

Why people from career politics...?

My guess the emcumbant guy Øbama will be the nominee ... if he does not seek relection because
of health reasons....

If a health issue arises, then Hillary will be 'drafted' as the party headliner


As for the opposition frontman.... i'd say it will be someone from the Corptocracy...
better still, a top bankster/brokerage top executive, someone in the vein of Ruben, or Paulsen...
even the caliber of a Greenspan or Bernanke, but with a youth like Geithner...


hells-bells this cabal of insider Elites already took over the Treasury, own the Lobbyists
who own most members of the two houses of Congress...installed Øbama, Bush, Clinton, Bush...
the supposed independent Judiciary rides the coattails of this cadre of 'shadow government elites'...
knowing just where their Platinum Parachutes get their wind from


i suspect that the puppetmasters will install one-of-their-Own! not merely a puppet yes-man of the
Execuitive Branch.... like the last 4 men have been, catering to the puppetmasters of the money cartel.
No---they have decided that hands-on total control - as in dictatorship - is ripe for the seizing
of the American Juggernaut (or more exactly : an empire in decline)


A big time money man/economist/ mega-manipulator of very high economic esteem will be the new Caesar

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

Let me say this. Obama will be fortunate to survive impeachment during his first term. Should he not be banished in the primary by H. Clinton, he will suffer the most lopsided defeat since Jimmy Carter v. Reagen in 1976. The man is revealed to be merely an inept marxist who is in way over his head. His pointy, empty, Kenyan head. You'll see evidence of this coming wave in the elections of 11-2-2010.

Well alright let me ask you: what will President Obama be impeached for? How is he in fact a Marxist? Can you prove he was born in Kenya? How do you spell "Regan" again? Seriously mate this is some way out there stuff, I don't see any of this happening at all.

As for the OP, I like your style, very well thought out but I'll disagree on two key points:

First, politicians that philander tend to start before their attain the higher offices, in the case of President Kennedy it was a well-known fact among the press and Washington society-types but nobody talked about it. In the case of President Clinton there were rumors and accusations before he even ran for president. To assume that simply because President Obama is a Democrat that he is sleeping around is a big jump, and not at all something I would count on for election purposes.

Second, I believe that the 2012 Republican Nomination is going to be one of the hardest-fought battles in American political history, and not one that Newt Gingrich could survive. Governor Palin, Representative Paul, Governor Romney, Governor Huckabee, Representative Tancredo and several others will probably also run, and Gingrich will not make it out of that brawl. This is going to be a hard fight between the extreme right of the GOP and the mainline. It is going to be brutal, personal and incredibly dirty, because in the end it's also a fight for the soul of the Republican Party.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Jenny sparks right.. your avatar... Just curious...

Thank you...

Now to our two point of disagreement...

I cant put it in numbers.... Its there to me.. What I feel are the info bits seem to indicate it is there for his behavior...I know its not science and only opinion... Watch his broadcast with it in the back of your mind its seems there...

The only thing I have going for this is two things...

All those who where that type hid it well from the press... I also think of FDR in this respect as well as Ike..

I remember a quote but not who said it...
Something about accusing your opponents of beastialty just to watch them respond..

I would love to be part of the debate when newster and o-man debate it...
I would level the accusation just to see the look in there eyes they flinch its over... Oh I meant just the o-man.....



the second point is over the republican party...

I will try to be careful in this response...

The republican party is indeed in a fight for its soul.

I am editing out a snide comment out of respect ...

I believe it might be better worded that those who hold conservative values are questioning if those that represent them hold those same values and they are feeling it...

Those you mentioned may be good people and working to establish creds. None of them have the leadership necessary to beat obama. They, the GOP needs an organizer and leader. For better or worse Newtster is that man. He took the speakship and helped rig the GOP's takeover during Clinton's reign. This is the Newtsters main edge. My guess is he is laying the groundwork..

If he can organize the GOP for this election he will be their candidate. The sad fact is that the GOP can not afford the fight... It is going to need every resource in line for 2012 at full steam. They have to hit the ground running every duck in a row.... If there is a fight over the election for the gop it has to be the main not the primaries...

If I was newt i would go and contact all those you named first... Bring them in line... Next go to all the GOP's backers and insure they back you.. No dissent, all faces looking one way....

Last... I would publish the sequel to 1945... it is very annoying not to have the next book.. Plus it is extra money in your pocket. If you pick right storyline you might even associate yourself with it...

He also needs to remember Carter... Do not tell the american public they need to do x because they are y

Borrow a page from reagan and remind them they are great...

newt may run, but i dont expect he will make much of an impression.

i suspect that the Right Wing candidate who ends up running in 2012 will be Mitt Romney. He was the GOP fav. going into the last election, before it became apparent they were going to lose, which is when they decided to sacrifice McCain.

After Romney, i would guess someone along the lines of Palin/Christine ODonnel. A 'fresh-faced' (re; naive and clueless) social conservative who can pretend to be an 'outsider' while clearly espousing cliche GOP talking points. This is the model they will be looking to come up with. The current shebang about the 'tea party' is merely a dry run for this, looking to find potential candidates they can package as an 'outsider'.

But this will ALL depend on the state of the economy by mid 2012. If the economy is still in the pooper, and showing no signs of recovery, the GOP will again look to intentionally lose as they did in 2008.

Who wants to be in charge of a deficit? Republicans prefer to have Democrats clean up their messes before they take over again.

The 'Right' may benefit from NOT re-taking the House

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

Let me say this. Obama will be fortunate to survive impeachment during his first term. Should he not be banished in the primary by H. Clinton, he will suffer the most lopsided defeat since Jimmy Carter v. Reagen in 1976. The man is revealed to be merely an inept marxist who is in way over his head. His pointy, empty, Kenyan head. You'll see evidence of this coming wave in the elections of 11-2-2010.

THIS ^^^^. What a GREAT example of how the American Right has ZERO productive ideas. In a thread about potential presidential contenders in 2012, this person prefers to not talk about ALTERNATIVES but to merely engage in some hubritastic partisan distraction.

Where are the ideas for an alternative to this 'Marxist" (a ridiculous claim in the first place, to be sure)

Originally posted by justadood

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

Let me say this. Obama will be fortunate to survive impeachment during his first term. Should he not be banished in the primary by H. Clinton, he will suffer the most lopsided defeat since Jimmy Carter v. Reagen in 1976. The man is revealed to be merely an inept marxist who is in way over his head. His pointy, empty, Kenyan head. You'll see evidence of this coming wave in the elections of 11-2-2010.

THIS ^^^^. What a GREAT example of how the American Right has ZERO productive ideas. In a thread about potential presidential contenders in 2012, this person prefers to not talk about ALTERNATIVES but to merely engage in some hubritastic partisan distraction.

Where are the ideas for an alternative to this 'Marxist" (a ridiculous claim in the first place, to be sure)

Didn't you get the memo?
Any U.S political thread on ATS has to have atleast a solid page of Obama bashing, otherwise it doesn't make the cut.

reply to post by ripcontrol


Yep, it is Jenny Sparks, good eye!

As for the first point, well I can be wrong, but usually the media starts to pick up on rumors early, and we in the industry haven't really heard anything on that point yet. Who knows what the future will hold, time will tell on that one.

In the second point, I think you are right, the Republican Party cannot afford to have a knock-down fight before coming up against Obama in the general election. Gingrich is working a very interesting angle currently, and he has two years to rally the base behind his message, but there are a great number of challengers that will really lay into him. A lot depends on what the next two years bring for Obama regarding how the public will view him at the time of the election. There are several ways he could be assured victory easily based on issues that he currently faces:

If no American dies in Iraq for the year leading up to the election, he will win.

If the unemployment rate drops back to a reasonable level, he will win.

If the American people are generally happy with the health care reform, he will win.

However, the Republicans will certainly continue their attacks on Obama and the right-wing media will of course keep going with their attacks as well.

2012 is still very much up for grabs, by enacting so much legislation in his first two years in office Obama will have time to let his ideas either work or fail before he is up for re-election. Thus, it's actually very possible that the election will be the fabled referendum on the opinion of Obama's leadership, instead of continued promises.