Jewish peace activists set sail for Gaza from Cyprus

www.activistpost.com...

A boat carrying Jewish activists from Germany the US and Britain Leave Cyprus on sunday in a bid to break the illegal Gaza blockade. These good folks have adopted the name "Jews for justice" It will be difficult for the Israelis to call them "terrorists" so shooting them won't happen. I figure they will somehow disable the boat and rescue them when they run out of food and water.

reply to post by gem_man


oh those anti semitic activists

you wait and see whats going to happen to them

This is brilliant. I have nothing but admiration and appreciation for these brave people. They are making a very strong statement and one the world will take notice of.

reply to post by gem_man

As an average citizen or Netizen I'm questioning why and how much we should care.
As a student I was always told that Judaism is a religion and not a race.
I was also told that Islam is non-racist.
So is it fair to admit some mid-East fatique?
If it's just a matter of religion why don't they all convert to one thing?
If all the Palestinians became Jews they could re-settle their own lands.

Are they lying about their "Abrahamic" religions, and it is really racism?
Would it help the Palestinians if they converted to Judaism?

I think they are idiots, like the idiots that tried to break the blockade before them.

Like the idiot that stood infront of an IDF bulldozer.

Idiots...

It would be very easy to call them terrorists if they beat up the soldiers who come to stop them, and throw them overboard.
You do realize that non of the activists on non of the ships were left to drift, or starve, they were taken off the ships, they were fed, and they were taken care of.

Why is it that in each and every one of your topics you fail to maintain even an ounce of objectivity, and why is it that your opinions are so shallow that you can not for a second consider that Israel is not the demon you've been brainwashed to believe it is?

Wake up, grow up...

I think the symbolism is good, but being Jewish will do them no good as far as any response from Israel. I have come to the conclusion that Zoinism only uses Judaism and the struggles of the same, to push forward with an agenda that isn't beneficial to the Jewish people.

With that being said, I believe that this is a good thing for all Jewish people. People tend to get angry with Jews because of the actions of Israel, without realizing the point made in the first paragraph. What many people don't realize, is that Jews are some of the loudest and most dedicated activists against the actions and policies of Israel, Zionism and Zionist supporters. Of course the media never covers this large population of vocal Jews because it would go against what is spoon-fed to us.


--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon

Yes, a very important point.
We often think of history in binaries, and we forget how complex positions can actually become.
For example, here in SA the many white people at the forefront against apartheid are often forgotten, specifically the Jewish and Afrikaner activists.
Christianity is often misrepresented as homophobic, sexist and colonially racist.
But there were often the Christian rebels like Naude, Hurley, Huddleson; too many...

However, there are two caveats:
1. Internal dissent is used for further racist propaganda ie.: we allow it, they do not. Therefore we are the lesser of two evils. Israel often points to allowing other voices that Arab countries seemingly do not. This disjuncture in press/individual freedoms in Islamic countries furthers the Israeli cause.
Maybe that is a point - I'd rather be a gay teenager in Israel than Palestine.
2. One sees little support from the Arab world for the Jewish anti-Zionist position.
This hardly reasures anyone that Jews will not be killed or oppressed in the mid-East, should Israel drop its defences.

reply to post by airspoon


If you start replacing the word Zionism, with the word politics you just might make sense..

Every country would love to have more territory, there are many territorial disputes going on all over the world-

en.wikipedia.org...

Granted, it's politics at its worst, but can you really call all these disputes Zionism?

So what does any of this have to do with Zionism?

Plus the siege of Gaza has nothing to do with Zionism to begin with, so why is it that you've used the word Zionism 3 times in one post?

But I agree with the essence of your post- This conflict has nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.. Well maybe it has to do with it, seeing as how the people on both sides who are causing the problems at the moment on both sides are doing it for semi religious reasons...

reply to post by gem_man

I've just pondered my thread on modern slavery.
Wikipedia has a lengthy piece on Islam and slavery:
en.wikipedia.org...
Quote from an apparent Islamic cleric on allowing the slavery of Jewish women!!!

"Yet a prominent Saudi cleric, Shaikh Saad Al-Buraik, recently urged Palestinians to do exactly that with Jews: 'Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women?'"

reply to post by Eliad


Is not Zionism a form of politics? Furthermore, I think the theological point of Zionism has long gone, leaving only Zionism as a political power. Therefore, the Zionism that we experience today is synonymous with politics.

I can't tell you how many American Jews actually think that the Palestinians want to kick the Israelis out of the holyland and that they are against the Jews because of Judaism. That is actually the consensus as it is implied to them. I actually went to an "Islamic understanding" symposium in Great Neck (a Jewish section of NYC), top where the public could come in and ask any questions they want. The purpose was to dispell many of the false notions put out about Islam and of course, this being a majority Jewish area, the main questions were "why Islam hates the Jews" and alike. The speakers were really good and included a Rabbi, an Imam, several other speakers and a maimed Palestinian child, turned public speaker. Many of these American Jews went into the symposium thinking that Palestine and the Arab world hated Jews and wanted Israel for themselves, without the Jews, though almost everyone came out questioning the brand of Zionism that has taken over. Some people had absolutely no clue that Israel was evicting or that Jewish settlers were so brutal. They had no idea what the consequences were for Zionism. I think it's important to note that the symposium wasn't about the Israel/Palestinian conflict, though turned to that subject after the barrage of question.

The point here, being that American Jews, one of the main financiers of Israel's actions against the Palestinians, are falsely lead to believe something other than the reality of the situation. The point is that American Jews at least would never condone this Zionist agenda and only do so because they are being mislead, at the temple, in social circles, from the media and even at school.

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon

Those meetings in the ivory towers of academia may represent a silent majority of peaceful people or not.
The fact is also that there are some violently anti-Semitic Muslims groups who have become influencial and vocal.
A journalist friend who worked in Dubai told me they may not even represent any Jew in a favourable light in their press.
The mid-East reality is very hard, it seems.

reply to post by airspoon


I think it's a matter of perspective, and I'm giving you mine- Zionism was a form of politics, but it had a distinct goal: Getting the Jews a land (the Jews as a people, rather than a religion), and the only theological aspect of it is the selection of Israel as that land, other than that it's just politics- Always was..

But now the Jews have a land, and when you're talking about occupation, or Zionist expansion you're talking about what? The 2% of the West Bank that the Israeli government is negotiating with the Palestinians?
It's nothing..
That's it, there's no more Zionism, no more expansion.. This is only an attempt by our government to use the settlements as a card in the negotiations..

As I said, it's a matter of perspective, I got mine from living here, you get yours from I don't know who, and while that hardly makes me objective, it makes my perspective more accurate- I can honestly tell you that Zionism is dead.. Now a days Zionism is just a synonym for Patriotism.


And I'll tell you something ask, in recent months I've come to realize that most Israelis also don't know anything about what goes on in the settlements.. And the people that do are either extreme in their opinions and want the situation to stay as it is or they're already against them in one way or another.

I love my country very much, I support the IDF and many of its actions, but I seriously don't see any reason why we should be in the West Bank... These two things don't contradict..

By the way, even within the settler community, it's only the extreme minority of them that resorts to violence.

reply to post by halfoldman

BBC report on Jewish man kidnapped in France, tortured for three weeks and murdered by Muslim gangs:
news.bbc.co.uk...
Never mind this case, but the sloganeering around it stinks of anti-Semitism.
Now how can one really think that Jews will be welcome in the Middle East without major protection?

reply to post by halfoldman


I don't think anyone is saying that..
People just want the violence to stop..

reply to post by Eliad

Well clearly somebody has said it, and it is not an isolated statement.
In fact simply having an Israeli stamp in your passport bars you entry from several Muslim countries, from what I hear.

reply to post by halfoldman


Well, I think it works both ways, some of these countries are very hostile, so hostile that there a good chance of something happening (A kidnapping, a murder) if it is open to Israelis, so why would our government want us to go there..

There are people in countries like Malaysia and Indonesia that I'm dying to visit, and I'm sure I'll be safe with them, but I can't, and they can't visit me..

reply to post by Eliad

Forgive me, I'm just stiring debate - my love goes out to all the men and women of peace.

Just wondering: where are you that you cannot be visited from a Malaysian or Indonesian friend?

I've never heard that (and I mean that sincerely).

reply to post by Eliad


Eliad, the great apologist for Israel speaks again! They are not terrorists if they are defending their ship in International waters. These are just good people trying to make a point and keep the illegal blockade in the minds of people. Incidently, Don't you think terrorists would be better armed for a confrontation then clubs and kitchen knives. Israel has become the pre- emiminate rogue state of the world surpassing N. Korea and Iran.
]
In any case we will see how Israel handles this attempt to break the illegal blockade.

reply to post by gem_man


Meh, I didn't want to drag this completely off topic, But I guess it's up to you, as the OP.
Let me just say this-

1) It would have been completely okay if they were trying to make a point, but instead they were trying to make the point of their knife go through the stomach of a soldier, and that makes it not okay.

2) I get it, I really do, they did make a point, and without them the ban on goods would probably have never lifted, but did they really have to fight? They would have made the same amount of noise if they had just tried, and gave up.

3) The point is not whether or not a terrorist would be armed with clubs and knives, the point is that they were armed with clubs and knives.

4) The only thing they were defending from was the shame of not getting into Gaza, that was the only thing driving them to attack- The boarding was lawful, it's too bad they didn't bother to check international laws.. They were not shot at from outside the boat, because if they had been shot at they wouldn't have been standing there like idiots, they would have been running around taking cover, and if they were shot at how is it that the soldier that landed did not fire immediately, killing everyone around them?
How is it that there are only 8 dead?
You're a reasonable man, how can you believe it.

5) This world is seeing, right now as we speak, far worse conflicts- In Africa whole villages are being raped, butchered with machetes and burnt down, not always in that order, in North Korea a South Korean boat got too close, and was blown to bits.. You want to tell me we're worse?
Again, if you have any logic in you, how can you believe that?

6) Thank you for referring to me as "The great", I'm flattered, but I must correct you, I'm not an apologist, I don't apologize for anything, nor do I have the authority to apologize in the name of Israel.
I'm simply intelligent, reasonable, and an Israeli, therefor I see things differently than you.

With respect,
Eliad.


reply to post by halfoldman


I'm from Israel