Obamacare goes into effect, side effects already appearing

Healthcare overall would be more managable to afford for all americans if it wasn't for hospitals and doctors.

Say you go to the ER....ever notice the doctor sees you two times the whole time if you are lucky and it's for 2 minutes....than he may visit the other people...but out of the 3-4 hours you wait he/she spends 3+ hours sitting at the desk. You are charged by how long you are there...there is Fraud but the Insurance companies are forced to hike prices to keep up with paying for your bills so doctors can do nothing. I was in the ER with my girlfriend one night...there were 2 other patients....I walked out of her room to get a drink and sitting in the little desk in the unit were the nurses and doctors playing cards...The government really needs to press on the medical business to stop frauding people....bc it's not just the insurance companies.

reply to post by OmiOra


Hmm, I don't know if that's the norm or not, but I do know that doctors spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with government mandated paperwork and insurance company BS (also mandated by the government). Its only going to get worse. A doctor shortage is coming with this new 'plan' and health care will be severely rationed, mark my words.

I am going to attempt to disagree in a more polite way. Sorry if my last post was distasteful.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

I used those negative examples, because it is they who are driving up the health care costs. It's not rocket science. You force coverage on 25 million deadbeats and you will get health care rationing and increased premiums.

This bill isn't forcing the insurance companies to cover 25 million "deadbeats", it's forcing the "deadbeats" to go out and buy insurance. I am going to go ahead and switch the term "deadbeats" with the uninsured. Forcing the uninsured to buy health insurance isn't going to raise premiums. For that to be true, you would have to believe that all of the uninsured were sick. Health insurance companies have expenses when their customers are sick. That's besides the point because the currently uninsured will be purchasing insurance.

Why do I call them deadbeats? Well because of illegal aliens using emergency care as their personal physicians we have a system breakdown in many border states.

This is the primary reason why the health care reform made it mandatory for the uninsured to buy health insurance. If everybody has insurance, then the uninsured cannot use emergency care while the tax payers pick up the bill. They will already be covered by the insurance which they purchased. It's the same reasoning as to why it's illegal to drive without car insurance. If somebody hit's you, then you will not be stuck with the bill.

I realize that mandatory heath insurance is one of the more unpopular parts of the health care reform, but it's somewhat understandable.

Insurance companies are going to lose money now that they have to cover people with pre-existing conditions. Previously they could just refuse to cover those which would end up costing them more than they would profit. Now, they will have to cover these individuals (most likely at a higher rate) and take the loss.

It's not a perfect plan. No plan of this magnitude could be. We can all assume that adjustments will need to be made as the plan goes into effect. I'm not happy with the plan. I would like to see an option which left the For-Profit companies out.

reply to post by Styki


Not according to several outside analysts there are a number of unfunded mandates that hit insurance companies hard.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...


Some points of note:

Obamacare will increase insurance premiums -- in some places, it already has. Insurers, suddenly forced to cover clients' children until age 26, have little choice but to raise premiums, and they attribute to Obamacare's mandates a 1 to 9 percent increase. Obama's only method of preventing massive rate increases so far has been to threaten insurers.

Obamacare will force seasonal employers -- especially the ski and amusement park industries -- to pay huge fines, cut hours, or lay off employees.

Obamacare forces states to guarantee not only payment but also treatment for indigent Medicaid patients. With many doctors now refusing to take Medicaid (because they lose money doing so), cash-strapped states could be sued and ordered to increase reimbursement rates beyond their means.

Obamacare allows the IRS to confiscate part or all of your tax refund if you do not purchase a qualified insurance plan. The bill funds 16,000 new IRS agents to make sure Americans stay in line.

reply to post by SevenThunders


what is comming the real intention is to bankrupt people and kill jobs so they can put you on the government dime

government healthcare governmental imposed poverty governmental imposed enslavement.


this is the total goal of the hcr is was nothing bout helping people it was about helping people out of their belongings



i can guarantee to you all this all those people who push for food stamps and social security have never been on it they have no clue that the power the feds hold over them

reply to post by neo96


I have to agree with you. The idea that all we are seeing are unintended consequences can not be believed. They know exactly what they are doing, and destroying the middle class is an integral part of it.

reply to post by SevenThunders


The points which your article listed are true in that they will end up costing the insurance companies and small business more in some cases.

One the other hand, there are reasons for why changes needed to be made. For example, today it is common for students to stay in school longer than in the past. A bachelors degree is becoming the equivalent of what a high school diploma used to be in the workforce. With this in mind, it becomes necessary to extend the length of time children can stay on their parents health plans.

Small businesses are also going to take a hit in some cases. Some small businesses took the initiative and took care of their employees, while others did not. The health care reform will ensure that more employees are getting health coverage.

There are several aspects of this reform which go into areas that I am not familiar with. It's pretty massive.

The bottom line is that I don't trust the health insurance companies enough to believe that this reform is going to hurt them as much as they are claiming. I wouldn't put it beyond them to use this reform as an excuse to raise their premiums.

What we need to do is watch the insurance companies profits as this reform goes into effect. If they raise premiums and start having record breaking quarters, then I will be an unhappy customer.

reply to post by Styki


What we need is a free market solution to what has been a very carefully controlled monopoly system. In times past it was not too difficult to pay for a doctor out of pocket. What happened? If you have true cost competition, costs come down. Just compare the cost of veterinary care to human health care. In many cases they use the same techniques and the same pharmaceuticals, but you can pay to treat your dog out of pocket.

There are many ways to do this, but I have one simple suggestion. Take the social security ponzi scheme and use it to fund medical savings account. The account would buy co-insurance for catastrophic care such as hospitalization, chemo-therapy etc., but all other medical costs would directly come out of your account. You'd choose what to spend it on. The best care for the lowest cost wins and you get to keep any savings.

To make it work we'd have to get rid of the FDA/AMA / big pharma monopolies. I say get rid of the FDA, they only serve the elite anyway. Instead enforce full disclosure in the form of a medical database that accurately tracks what treatments really work. Ie should you take that expensive patented statin drug to control your colesterol or will some cheap vitamin E, fish oil and coenzyme Q supplementation suffice? Consult your database to see what's worked the best to date. Let the consumer be fully informed and fully free to make informed medical decisions. That my friends would fix two socialist disasters, government/big business run health insurance and so called social security. I guarantee you, with a system like this in place, health care costs would start going down, much the way consumer electronics have decreased in price over the years. Real free market competition is a wonderful tonic for bloated monopolies.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Let me take a look at your "plan"

Take the social security ponzi scheme and use it to fund medical savings account.

See, nowadays, us lowly employees pay what is called FICA, it's kinda like Medicare/Medicaid (that's kinda like a health insurance premium) and Social Security, (that's kinda like an individual retirement account) and you are telling us, that you would like for them to take that money (all that money that I have EARNED) and put it in the hands of private financial institutions? Really? You want me to give money that I have worked for, since I was 12, and hand it over to people like AIG?

So, you not only want to rob me of any retirement that I might have. (thanks a lot for that) but you also want to rob me of any health benefits that I have been paying for. I am sorry, but I can't agree with this plan of yours already, you seem to want to give my money to people who have already proven to be bad with handling money, with no guarantee that I will get anything at all back?

I am sorry, but I don't want my money that I have earned to be in the hands of a giant corporation that has absolutely no interest in my welfare but whos only interest is their own bottom line.

reply to post by whatukno


Wow. your post truly proves that people who want to believe something, no matter what the evidence is on the ground truly can't be stopped.

reply to post by SevenThunders


It is always about the money. Filling out that paper work = more you spend. The hospital makes more, the insurance company can make more off of the patient and the government makes more off of taxes since the price in the end is normally doubled than what it has to be. Uninsured people are often discharged a lot quicker than the insured when the whole vowel the medical personel take is to treat everyone fully and equally.

reply to post by snusfanatic


I don't know what's so hard to understand here. "Don't screw with MY money" that's all I am saying.

I want it in Social Security and Medicare. Why? Because I would rather the government have it than some greedy corporation that would just deny me it anyway.

Let's say the neocons get their way, and they repeal Obamacare, and they force me to take the money I have invested in the government retirement and medical plan and give it to a Corporation that now has no regulations imposed on it that says they cannot deny me coverage.

Now I get sick, or I get disabled. Well, that corporation doesn't have to do squat (thanks to repealing Obamacare), all they have to do is send me a letter saying they are denying me coverage, and that they are dropping me from the plan.

Now I am out all that money that I have invested. And I also get to starve to death or die in the gutter because I now will have no insurance, no income, and all that money that I have paid in thus far has evaporated with absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

So what is my option? To sue? With what? I can't work, I can't afford an attorney, what the hell am I going to sue with? And if I could sue, I still would die because I still won't be able to work and still won't get the medication and treatment I would need.

So screw that, leave my money alone, you want to not have your money in Social Security and Medicare, opt out like you already can, leave my money alone.

reply to post by whatukno


what man what do you think the government has been doing with your social security?

THEY HAVE BEEN screwing with it for decades.


the entire goal of privatization is giving it TO you so NOONE else can screw with it.




yeah you are paying for it so why shouldnt you have a say in the matter period.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by Styki

 

I used those negative examples, because it is they who are driving up the health care costs. It's not rocket science. You force coverage on 25 million deadbeats and you will get health care rationing and increased premiums.

Why do I call them deadbeats? Well because of illegal aliens using emergency care as their personal physicians we have a system breakdown in many border states. Obama's purpose is to destroy America and what better way to do it, then drain everyone's savings and create a payday for his core constituency, illegal aliens, felons, sexual perverts, islamic terrorists and community 'activists'. Marxism destroys another country, all the while they tell us that this time they will do communism 'right'.

And you wonder why the tea party activists are pissed off, well wait until you see the entirety of Middle America ready to take up arms. They are destroying the country our forefathers spilled blood for, to secure our freedoms, what are you going to do about it?

That's 100% Obamacare...

Originally posted by whatukno
telling us, that you would like for them to take that money (all that money that I have EARNED) and put it in the hands of private financial institutions? Really? You want me to give money that I have worked for, since I was 12, and hand it over to people like AIG?

edit on 9/25/2010 by whatukno because: (no reason given)

No, I want you to take your money and keep it mostly for whatever you want to do with it. What you are describing is the system we have now. Do you like that system? Here's how it works. The government takes your money before you ever see it, spends it right away and promises to pay it back to you when you retire. Except that you probably get only a tiny fraction of what you could have had if you had saved and invested the same amount.

Do you understand how medical savings plans even work? Instead of throwing away your money in a Ponzi scheme you get to put the money into an account that you control. If you feel compelled to give it to AIG go ahead, apparently the leftists in DC think thats just dandy and they are more than happy to give your money (taxes) to AIG as they do now!

Just keep in mind that your out of pocket medical expenses and co-insurance premiums will have to be paid from this account. The rest you get to keep and invest for retirement. You have a personal incentive to reduce your medical costs, and its a powerful incentive. That's how market forces work. The best health care providers will provide good care at reduced cost if they want your business. Under the Marxist plan, the government will decide to punish the providers and pay out to their personal cronies while you get shafted. Now if you like that kind of treatment I highly recommend North Korea or Cuba, but it doesn't play very well in America.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Basically your solution is for me to get all my money from the government, and throw it away, is that right? Just throw away every dime I have invested in the system?

Cause that is exactly what would happen to millions of people who went for this ludicrous idea. They would invest their money into an insurance company, tens of thousands of dollars, just to be denied coverage when they needed it.

Yea, great idea there.

reply to post by whatukno


OK last time I explain this. I know you are just being a troll in support of your failed world view, or more likely you are a paid operative of Obama. I shall explain myself anyway for the benefit of others.

In a medical savings account you have control over how your money is invested, just like you do with your IRA or 401K. I don't know about you, but my IRA is not invested in AIG, though given it's illuminati backing, it's probably a good investment in the short term.

My IRA is currently invested in master limited partnerships, commodity funds, bonds, cash and bear funds. I have no insurance company stock (though I have held Berkshire Hathaway in the past).

Perhaps you are referring to the 'investment' in the coinsurance coverage for your catastrophic care. That's an odd term for it. Do you currently call your health insurance an investment or an expense?

Maybe your mind is so conditioned to government controlling all aspects of your life, that it was impossible for you to conceive of actually keeping your own money under your own control. Thus any solution had to be a government or perhaps corporate controlled one. I'll bet that's the problem.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I get what you are saying, you want me to take my investment in social security and invest it in a 401k through the same stock market that tanked and took with it everyone's retirement accounts a couple years ago. Bang up idea!

Yea, let me give my money to wall street, because it will be safe there and wall street investments ALWAYS appreciate in value

Just tell everyone to just take their money and put it through a paper shredder, or how bout lotto tickets! Those are ALWAYS winners aren't they?

reply to post by whatukno


Historically the stock market has returned about 10% annually, even through the bad times, if you look at a long enough period, say 20-30 years. This site has some statistics:
www.getrichslowly.org...

By the way how much has your social security ponzi scheme returned?
www.heritage.org...

I'm not a big fan of traditional buy and hold tactics however.


But you could always invest in some municipal bonds or US treasuries. Those might go under too, but if say Santa Clara or New York city defaults on it's obligations, we have much bigger troubles than just our mere pensions. You could even invest in gold. That has retained it's value, post-inflation for a long time.