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Conspiracy Delusions from Left and Right

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posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I've noticed your efforts to expose the left/right game previously. And I applaud them, just as I applaud all Independent Thinkers, Liberatrians, Moderates, Centrists - in short: Sane and Balanced citizens of the World.


Thank you.

I grew up under as a "right-wing" Christian.

And my views were extreme as well.

I saw abortion as murder.

I saw drugs as equal to Hell-bound activity.

I saw not one thing wrong with anything America did because it was in our name and to protect us.

In other words, I was naive as Hell, and a Christian bully, telling others they were going there.

That was in my teenage years.

This was in most cases the churches fault, my parents fault, but ultimately my fault in the end.

It lead me to making loud accusations and getting my butt kicked because I did not know diplomacy.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Within the thread above there is a story where fifteen teenagers intended to kill me because of my mouth.

By eighteen I knew how to overthrow any Government due to my knowledge of Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece.

As well as a tactical understanding of the Art of War, military strategy, and knowing how to spot corrupt Police.

Yet, if you, or anyone else asked me to do so, I would have called the F.B.I. and reported you as a subversive.

After the event in the thread above though I snapped and changed from being a bullied and terrorized "right-wing" Christian decrying the abominations of Hell on everyone, being a Christian bully, to the exact polar opposite, becoming a bully-buster, and leading others towards safety, when I was pulled out of public school and put into a Christian homeschool, for high school.

The difference?

Well, this Christian homeschool was non-denominational, for one.

Without the strigent beliefs of others I had encountered.

I also took Greek for a language and learned to interpret both the language as well as the subtle meanings of language.

As well I began learning diplomacy, leadership skills, and public service.

I was constantly volunteered into situations by my mother.

She would bushwhack me during our homeschool fieldtrips because she threw me into the spotlight to speak on the location or what the locations was about, because it was usually based upon something I knew, IE : fieldtrip to a museum for sunken ships with displays of gold, pirate memorabilia, and flags, well I knew a lot about piracy and history.

She threw me into the spotlight wholly unprepared.

Fieldtrip to a college where they were demonstrating Roman armor, sword tactics, and speaking on Rome?

She threw me into the spotlight wholly unprepared.

I think you get the point.

As well a requirement of homeschool was volunteering for community service.

At first I picked the library but due to a love of reading and not being able to read while volunteering I switched.

I became then a Police Explorer, a branch of the Boy Scouts, even though then I did not know that.

I guess you could say I was not only Baptised under Christianity and in water but by fire and tribulation.

I had no choice because I was born a leader and I made huge mistakes but had to learn from them.

I know the differences now of how to act and how to lead and what not to do.

Every Time Someone Called You A Fascist, They Might Have Been Right, Is Your Ideology Fascist?

I learned not to be extreme, right-wing, or or not to be interpretationally misleading and left-wing.

As well as this I learned to have a deep respect for research, cross-referencing, and digging for information.

My mom never bushwhacked me again by throwing me as a Christian before the lions because of that.

Now, I am a centralized person, I found my balance, people look to me for leadership whether I want it or not.

And I have known for quite some time in fact that neither the left nor the right are correct.

That the truth lies in the middle of what they are both fighting about.

Lies, mis-directions, and smokescreens are their games, and they play them well.

Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest...

My search is for that truth in the middle because it is there if you search for it.

As well as all of the above, I began learning foreign and domestic policy of our nation, and learned of how things really work.

Our nation is a great one but I am troubled by those who lead it and committ actions in our names.

Often they are playing false diplomacy, duplicitous actions through foreign and domestic policy, and lying wholly.

I am a Centrist and a registered Independent and I see through the games of political partisanship.

Instead of always leading people though, I teach them how to lead themselves, both by pointing to leadership skills they already have yet are unaware of themselves, I do not fight their fights for them, but teach them how to spot bullies, how to fight those bullies on their own terms and without violence, by out-smarting, out-thinking, and out-manuevering.

And I am now an adult leader in the Boy Scouts of America with many positions of authority.

edit on 9/25/10 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth To The Post.




posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Nice job, Sky!

I appreciate seeing a well thought out OP with some great pics and citations. S&F

I don't really agree with your premise though - I think many of the things you're pointing out are common Psychology - the need to be part of a group, the idea that experiencing something once makes it part of the general consciousness. Media will capitalize on that but I don't feel conspiracies are a delusion.

I find it interesting you got your definition of delusion from a 3,000 year old text. Despite the amazing awareness, forethought, and wisdom of the Bhagavad Gita our currently accepted definition of delusion is more like what we could find in the DSM dealing with psychosis or schizophrenia; delusion is a serious issue, not just a passing idea.

On the other hand our society REALLY needs to wake the heck up and recognize many things in our media cannot be trusted as fact, and do have a bias and spin to them.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by astrogolf
Here is what I would tell you, and you should listen very closely. There was a similar debate in 1930's Germany, and remarks similar to yours in Europe and the United States, which proved to be wrong, because TWENTY MILLION PEOPLE wound up dead, many burned alive.


More like 77 Million. And all based on fascist conspiracy-theories about a supposed rule by Freemasons and Jews.



Rwanda


Prior to the rwandan massacres communists hit the airwaves with conspiracy-theories to fuel hatred against the Tutsi.

Your entire list does not contract the OP, it confirms it.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


It's a process, not a result.

You don't think government forcing people to buy private insurance is a fascist policy?

Maybe you are confusing fascism with totalitarianism, oh mighty great one.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
You don't think government forcing people to buy private insurance is a fascist policy?
.


This policy is based on naive and wishful thinking, not on Fascism. Socialized Healthcare is widely practiced in Europe.

edit on 25-9-2010 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Nice post. You're an experiencer. You're writing is not based on read-only but on having gone through the BS in your life. Im an experiencer too. Raised Christian/Right-Wing to the Max. Rebelled against it as a Teenager, became just the opposite of my parents. Then, later, realized how childish my own Rebellion - and that of the entire left - is.. Like you, I centralized.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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I think you need to read the fascism wikipedia page and think about it carefully. There's a difference between socialism and fascism, though I loathe both.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
I think you need to read the fascism wikipedia page and think about it carefully. There's a difference between socialism and fascism, though I loathe both.


Ive pretty much been through Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. I read. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what Fascism is. The only people who think Europe and America are Fascists are the people in the rubber room or conspiracy-theorists.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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I never said they were fascist. I said they were moving towards fascism with the addition of fascist policies.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by CynicalM

I sincerely think it is of vast importance in a site such as ATS that we have a clear view of where Mods stand on subjects they moderate in...


I sincerely know that mods can moderate conversations and post contributions according to the pre-approved terms and conditions that each member agreed to when joining the ATS community. It is possible to have an opinion on a subject while permitting the other side to address their opposing viewpoints and key points while arguing or debating for their own personal beliefs.

CynicalM,
As is promoted in the Debate Forum (where participants pick neither the topic, nor which side they are debating from unless it is a challenge match) might I suggest you spend some time debating on the opposite side of a subject than what your personal stance may be. I have done this many times in threads on ATS, for many reasons, to include practicing debating, furthering my personal understanding of the opposite sides' counterarguments, and dare I say for the enjoyment of learning about it.

It is possible to maintain a passionate stance on a subject while being open minded enough to entertain some of the points the opposing side subscribes to. Moderators' responsibilities are confined to ensuring a fair atmosphere, binding members to the legal obligations of ATS, and promoting an atmosphere that is consistant with the T&C. Moderators are not chessmasters using members as pawns, recruiting like minded individuals, and silencing opposition to their ideologies. There is a difference.

Mods should feel free to share their perspective of what they think the truth on aspects of subjects they are familiar with or researching. Let the mods enjoy their ATS, too.

I hope this might help,
ET

edit on 25-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher because: add stuff



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
I said they were moving towards fascism with the addition of fascist policies.


Yes, thats what c-theorists keep saying. They said Bush will impose martial law. Before that they said Clinton would impose martial law. Before that Bush Sr. C-theory goes back a long way.

The exact opposite is true: The world is progressivelsy getting more free. The Internet you are posting on right now is only ONE of the Millions of pieces of evidence of that.

Yes I know, supposedly nobody foresaw Hitler or other tragedies of the 20th Century. But some did foresee them, and it wasnt conspiracy-theorists.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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Fascism, Socialism, Communism, Republics, Capitalism, Democracy, ect...

All labels designed to divert critical thinking and attempt to categorize by seperatists who do not want us to know:

How many mandatory expectations (laws) do each "type" of government have which their members of society must adhere to, and what do all their laws mean when held simultaneously in context with one another?

Fascist,
How many laws to your government style are there, specifically?

Socialist,
How many laws to your government style are there, specifically?

Communist,
How many laws to your government style are there, specifically?

Democracy's "Free Citizen",
How many laws to your government style are there, specifically?

Can any regular member of any society provide an answer, or is it just a diversionary tactic to label them different and set the illusion that they are not complementary to eachother?

These are few of the thoughts I personally entertain concerning the differences and similarities on governments.

-ET



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


You don't think government forcing people to buy private insurance is a fascist policy?

Maybe you are confusing fascism with totalitarianism, oh mighty great one.


oh mighty great one? ass kisser, or contemptuous insult attempter, if I were linear minded.

If you are concerned with government forcing people to buy private insurance, you are 20+ years too late, you fascist totaliterialist.


To date I have paid in excess of $50,000 dollars for mandatory car insurance. I havn't had a ticket in over 20 years. I have never made a claim for an accident. I have never owned a vehicle worth more than $12,000. At what point does it become mandatory for the private car insurance companies to buy me a new car since I have 3X over how much any car I have owned, ever. Why is it law that I am required to pay for other peoples' driving habits? Why do I pay this hidden tax to private companies?


United States
In the United States, auto insurance covering liability for injuries and property damage done to others is compulsory in most states, though different states enforce the requirement differently. The state of New Hampshire, for example, does not require motorists to carry liability insurance (the ballpark model), while in Virginia residents must pay the state a $500 annual fee per vehicle if they choose not to buy liability insurance.[11] Penalties for not purchasing auto insurance vary by state, but often involve a substantial fine, license and/or registration suspension or revocation, as well as possible jail time.
Wikipedia's Vehicle Insurance Article


Vehicle Insurance rates are based upon the following known factors: Age, Gender, Behavior, as well as many other personal behaviors and personal statisical data, and the duty to purchase this vehicle is mandatory by law and enforced by threats of substantioal fines, revoking of the right to drive, as well as imprisonment and jailtime.

547000,
Why is it we are required by law to pay Mandatory Vehicle Insurance, but when it comes to Mandatory Health Insurance it suddenly becomes an issue even after 20+ years of Mandatory Vehicle Insurance paid to Private Companies and enforced by government laws?

Mandatory Vehicle Insurance is acceptable, but mandatory health insurance is moving towards taboo and fascist or totalitarianism, and too close to something bad and/or negative, in some views it seems.

But again, the private industry, and public relations experts have large budgets dedicated towards misdirection of logic and critical thinking skills, which may enable them to distract us long enough to change our opinions without us knowing it happened.

But, I reserve the right to claim at a later date I may be totally wrong, pending upon further experiences and information I may gather at later dates.

-ET



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


I agree it's wrong to force people to buy insurance. What makes you think I condone it? Doesn't it just show even twenty years ago the progressive agenda is about moving more into fascism? Coercing people for what they think is a good thing?

Skyfloating:

You're not more free if you're forced to buy things by law.

edit on 26-9-2010 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



edit on 26-9-2010 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


I agree it's wrong to force people to buy insurance. What makes you think I condone it?


I could have worded that question differently, it was a rhetorical question meant to demonstrate how the mandatory laws have us paying for insurance on our vehicles, yet not ourselves. At the time of that post there was a ... systems malfunction .. I guess where all members had some account issues and avatars were made the same. I sorta abandoned rewriting that question to adjust the intent of it to go try and figure out what was going on that caused it.



Doesn't it just show even twenty years ago the progressive agenda is about moving more into fascism?


Moving towards something, but I do not totally subscribe to the labelling of it as being fascism. Other than this, I don't know what to say right now.



Coercing people for what they think is a good thing?


sometimes, yes, I believe so. Depending upon the circumstances. What variables would have to exist to merit or justify such things may lead us closer to the truth than where we are now, in my professional opinion.




You're not more free if you're forced to buy things by law.


I'm not entirely sure I know where that money is going, and for what purposes. Seems like a good portion is going into ...
propaganda, public relations, marketting, psychological warfare, psychological operations, hearts and minds, sorcery, whatever the flavor of name the kids are calling it these days.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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Skyfloating,
While we don't always agree on everything, and while I don't agree with a couple parts of your wording in this thread, overall that's peanuts. I actually really dig this thread, it shows a real depth to your views on the left-right paradigm and definitely enlightenment on the matter.

S+F, keep the good fight right up.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Answer's.com:

1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

From an economics point of view, fascism is where it's going at. Especially when the government would like to control corporations, which are still allowed to exist, giving a false sense of freedom. Socialism is when they outright say the means of production are owned by society. Fascism was quite popular about a century ago, and not because people were idiots, but because they liked some of the ideology of it. National Socialism was both socialistic and fascism at the same time. They're not really opposites from an economics point of view. Fascism and communism are not really quite opposites as many people believe. There's a brilliant video by Walter Block explaining the flaws of the traditional left-right scale that most people use.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Answer's.com:

1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

From an economics point of view, fascism is where it's going at. Especially when the government would like to control corporations, which are still allowed to exist, giving a false sense of freedom. Socialism is when they outright say the means of production are owned by society. Fascism was quite popular about a century ago, and not because people were idiots, but because they liked some of the ideology of it. National Socialism was both socialistic and fascism at the same time. They're not really opposites from an economics point of view. Fascism and communism are not really quite opposites as many people believe. There's a brilliant video by Walter Block explaining the flaws of the traditional left-right scale that most people use.


Well... fascism and communism are both TOTALITARIAN, however they lie on opposite ends of the economic/social scale.

Libertarianism is opposed to totalitarianism (promoting freedom/individual rights) and can be either left or right-wing.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Do not many CT's reject voting and politics? How does this serve the agenda of the political parties then?



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher.

Gray PSYOP
The source of the gray PSYOP product is deliberately ambiguous.

The true source (U.S. Government) is not revealed to the target audience. The activity engaged in plausibly appears to emanate from a non-official American source, or an indigenous, non-hostile source, or there may be no attribution.

Gray is that information whose content is such that the effect will be increased if the hand of the U.S. Government and in some cases any American participation are not revealed. It is simply a means for the U.S. to present viewpoints which are in the interest of U.S. foreign policy, but which will be acceptable or more acceptable to the intended target audience than will an official government statement.

Wikipedias's Psychological Operations (U.S.A.) Article


I'd like to take a moment to share a theory that I believe is more than just a theory, based upon my own experiences.

Gray Ops may incorporate a tactic that takes advantage of and exploits social structure and behavior, while remaining true to the Gray Ops of being deliberately ambiguous, as well as one tool The true powers that be do not revealed to the target audience.

Once a law is written, a law is written. Law becomes Law, once written, and only the Supreme Court can change that..... or are there others who can change the Laws...

If you cannot change the laws, change the definition of the words, or the associations the subconscious or mind might make with those words in connection to emotions and opinions.

change the meaning of a word, and you have changed the meaning of a law, or few, as well.

Just some things I ponder now and again,

-ET





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