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The Illuminati began in Atlantis...
page: 5share:
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by johnny c
Do you even know what enligtment is ? you got a small gland in your head, it;'s like a lamp. you become holow by opening up the fuse while your essence go's away. You become a machine, zombie. You give your self up for enligtment, and the worst part is that you can only see one side of the coin but not the other, you think you know it all but you don't, the dark go's away forever and you will not know what is in the dark because you have chosen a side, it's enlightment. Not only that but by doing this you give up the human factor, what makes you, your self.
EN-english EN-lightment. The enlighten. The royal enlightment. American revolution never happened, you are ruled by the same people, the royals, they play you like a deck of cards. Like a game of bridge, shall we play a game ? why mate I'm "de-lighted"
I'll have a good laugh when this is over, it is you that is paying the price.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
interesting about the enlightenment thing. I've heard something like that before and I can see what ur saying. Well, I don't know, maybe there's a possibility it's actually dangerous to become "enlightened" but ever since I began reaching the more advanced stages of meditation, I became happier, more capable, etc.
The only danger I can think of is possible interference (even possession) by negative spiritual entities/forces when one reaches the advanced stages. But there are a number of methods we can use for protection. Like visualizing a blue light around us, praying to the Masters, etc. I meditate under a pyramid, which is a form of protection too. But, all in all, I can only say positive things about reaching the advanced levels of spiritual development. It's way better than not doing it.
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
Meditation is really ok as long as you are locked down inside. The lock is there for your protection, meditating locked down will make you sense things around you, as in a range for haps better put. Becoming enligten is opening up, it's a curse, you lose your self, all of you, you throw it away, then you become like those monks, you kill your self for enligtment, because you sense that life is not worth living. I'll tell you something, the human is amazing. It can focus on details, create, analyze the smallest things, it has potential. Once you open up, take the top off it's over.
The inventor will always be human, making things, inventing.
The very notion of IN , IN-"venting" on the inside.
Without the human factor nothing can be created.
The creator made man in his image, the creator is in-ventive and they are ? En-lighten
Just to see , on what side the god factor is on. If there is no control over humanity then they die. They feed of humans. Soon it's going to stop, they are like a plague for us.
Meditation is really ok as long as you are locked down inside. The lock is there for your protection, meditating locked down will make you sense things around you, as in a range for haps better put. Becoming enligten is opening up, it's a curse, you lose your self, all of you, you throw it away, then you become like those monks, you kill your self for enligtment, because you sense that life is not worth living. I'll tell you something, the human is amazing. It can focus on details, create, analyze the smallest things, it has potential. Once you open up, take the top off it's over.
The inventor will always be human, making things, inventing.
The very notion of IN , IN-"venting" on the inside.
Without the human factor nothing can be created.
The creator made man in his image, the creator is in-ventive and they are ? En-lighten
Just to see , on what side the god factor is on. If there is no control over humanity then they die. They feed of humans. Soon it's going to stop, they are like a plague for us.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
Meditation is really ok as long as you are locked down inside. The lock is there for your protection, meditating locked down will make you sense things around you, as in a range for haps better put. Becoming enligten is opening up, it's a curse, you lose your self, all of you, you throw it away, then you become like those monks, you kill your self for enligtment, because you sense that life is not worth living. I'll tell you something, the human is amazing. It can focus on details, create, analyze the smallest things, it has potential. Once you open up, take the top off it's over.
The inventor will always be human, making things, inventing.
The very notion of IN , IN-"venting" on the inside.
Without the human factor nothing can be created.
The creator made man in his image, the creator is in-ventive and they are ? En-lighten
Just to see , on what side the god factor is on. If there is no control over humanity then they die. They feed of humans. Soon it's going to stop, they are like a plague for us.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
this is fascinating! i think i get it my friend. So, what ur trying to say is that "enlightenment" is a darkside trick to make people "empty out" their inner self, which is the true self. yes, I can see what u mean. This is very cool...however, if it's true it means that it's too late for me and I'm fuc*ed already ...
oh well...
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
It is never too late, I have found that if you are obsesed with enligtment you give in more and more.
You become weaker, for haps some tritonium will do the job for you. The mistake and the cure they are looking for is on the dark side. Can you imagine the inability to feel your self, to walk around like this robot zombie. I do pity them, walking around not noticing the detail of a small object, the carving in it. It's why life is so special. Things always go from east to west, it's strong in the east and weak on the west. Ideas and inventions pop up on the east side, they get proccessed like a robot on the west side. The only problem I find and I take notice of it is that inventions are always used for control instead of bettering. Once the collective will try to get it's hands on the east it's going to notice that there are no more words. No more ideas. Dependency, the east side is the provider. The inside. It's why all religios things pop up in the middle east. The east will remain a mistery, it's where god sends it's messages, the end is in the west.
The end is comming, better get ready.
It is never too late, I have found that if you are obsesed with enligtment you give in more and more.
You become weaker, for haps some tritonium will do the job for you. The mistake and the cure they are looking for is on the dark side. Can you imagine the inability to feel your self, to walk around like this robot zombie. I do pity them, walking around not noticing the detail of a small object, the carving in it. It's why life is so special. Things always go from east to west, it's strong in the east and weak on the west. Ideas and inventions pop up on the east side, they get proccessed like a robot on the west side. The only problem I find and I take notice of it is that inventions are always used for control instead of bettering. Once the collective will try to get it's hands on the east it's going to notice that there are no more words. No more ideas. Dependency, the east side is the provider. The inside. It's why all religios things pop up in the middle east. The east will remain a mistery, it's where god sends it's messages, the end is in the west.
The end is comming, better get ready.
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
It is never too late, I have found that if you are obsesed with enligtment you give in more and more.
You become weaker, for haps some tritonium will do the job for you. The mistake and the cure they are looking for is on the dark side. Can you imagine the inability to feel your self, to walk around like this robot zombie. I do pity them, walking around not noticing the detail of a small object, the carving in it. It's why life is so special. Things always go from east to west, it's strong in the east and weak on the west. Ideas and inventions pop up on the east side, they get proccessed like a robot on the west side. The only problem I find and I take notice of it is that inventions are always used for control instead of bettering. Once the collective will try to get it's hands on the east it's going to notice that there are no more words. No more ideas. Dependency, the east side is the provider. The inside. It's why all religios things pop up in the middle east. The east will remain a mistery, it's where god sends it's messages, the end is in the west.
The end is comming, better get ready.
Wait a minute...now ur saying the eastern ideas are good?? But that's where the concept of Meditation comes from dude. You're confusing me now. I'd better go and "meditate on this"...
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
Originally posted by dontreally
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
Originally posted by johnny c
Originally posted by dontreally
so i take you ignoring my posts as me completely blowing your argument up....
edit on 26-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
I say the people you are ignoring would give very special knowledge,dont really has enlightened me a lot to many subjects,why post on here? If you wont talk about other veiw points .
That is brain washing what your doing.
Even the illuminati let you have freedom of experience,its your choice if its good or bad.
By the way your acting,you would not grant this........
Hello dontreally
Hope your well mate
edit on 15/8/2010 by johnny c because: my link broke
Take it or leave it, but what I'm gonna say below is the truth:
Before I saw dontreally's latest post, I hadn't even read his other posts aside from a quick glance. If u think I'm sitting and painstakingly reading every single opinion on forums 24/7, oh well...
There are so many people that have ridiculous ideas about Atlantis being a "myth", etc, that I'd have to make replying on my own threads a "full time job", in order to answer to all of them. I'm not interested, sorry. I'm not on ATS to endlessly debate with no end.
I'm the one doing the brainwashing?? And all this bull about Plato inventing Atlantis as a "literary device" is NOT the worst of Illuminati brainwashing??Yeah, good one!
The last thing I will say about all this, is that I've even had clear past life memories from Atlantis, so whenever I see anything posted about this "myth" bullsh*t, like Masonic Light's posts, for instance (btw isn't the name "masoniclight" suspect?? who is this guy really?), I barely even read through them and just move on to the next one. That's my final verdict, sorry. I started this thread to attract people who already accept Atlantis is real, not to debate about outmoded ideas that belong in the dying Piscean Age.
Over and out...
So, your an uneducated pseudo intellectual who worships his own theories - however dimwitted and unscholarly they may be. If you just looked at my post and cared to appreciate the dynamic connections i made, you would understand that the essence of myth is ALLEGORY.
Do you want me to aswell give literal credence to the following characters of myth?
Gnomes, Trolls, vampires, werewolves, Santa, elves, giants, women with snake hair, etc etc. Its so many. If you give literal credence to atlantis, without any evidence, then your simply selective - subjective, and therefore full of sh*t.
And again. Atlantis is an archetype of the self. Read Jung you ignormus. If you concetrate on a figure of mythology, like atlantis, or the holy grail, you can be transported to the thought form associated with it. Because theories of atlantis and aquarian mythology have been so developed over the last 150 years, theres a whole database of imagery and themes to be met with when one meditates on thought. Same thing with the holy grail. try it. The archetype is a real thing. It simply uses imagery to associate with man. the ancients deified these powers and called them 'gods'. I gave you an example of christians. To some christian mystics ascetics, the experience of 'christs' crucifixtion, is so intense that they literally manifest the marks of 'christs' experience. Of course, the marks are symbolic of a reality. Because the persdon relates to this archetypal reality in such a fashion, in some extreme cases, the archetype literally manifests itself physically. this also exists in other cultures. Today theres the phenomena, which i know you talk very literally, of 'alien abduction'. Funny that so many report being anally probed. In mystic symbolism, the anal is associated with the demonic. Thus, for one to be taken advantage of in that area, symbolizes the very nature of the 'encounter' - the alien is a modern symbol of a demonic power - interacting with a person in a very real and vivid way. Sometimes the marks are literally left. the spiritual force actually imposing a very real physical mark on its subject.
This is how 'magick' works. I know, cause ive seen it and understand its mechanics.
You can ignore all thuis and say its 'illuminati' propaganda all you like. Educated people will appeciate for what it is. A real phenomena that has a repository of evidence from the ancient times till now. Men being contacted by shedim. angels appearing physically. Summoning of spirits. Theyre unconscious powers encoded in mans inner nature. Theyre preconscious. 'theyre' the gods the pagans like to call them.
You could have just said that.
I know what this is...you're just hurt because I "ignored you" aren't u?
Yes...I'm an uneducated pseudo-intellectual who worships his own theories - however dimwitted and unscholarly they may be.
Thank you SO much for teaching me that Santa, Gnomes & Atlantis aren't real. Thank God you're here buddy! Where would I be without you, great genius, full of "scholarly" theories (which are 100% in keeping with the "official line" strangely enough, thus triumphantly proving you ARE MERELY AN INTELLIGENT SHEEP!).
Oh yeah...and I'll remember to read Jung too, of course. I need to make a note of that. Because I FU**ING needed YOU to tell me that Jung is worth reading, you see. Thank you so much. Gee, I was totally blind before you illuminated me with all those "dynamic" (what an exquisite word...just marvelous, I must say) connections u made.
By the way, for anyone else who is reading this amusing reply (it's all about having fun above all, of course) of mine, this proves the point I made in my previous post: that if I go down this road, it will just never end.
The only way to stop this, is if I agree with this guy 100% or just simply ignore the majority of posts like these (which is my usual policy, anyway, for obvious reasons). I realize forums are for debating but sometimes there's a frikin' limit. If people don't agree with my ideas, fine, I don't care in the least as long as they are polite about it. But I can't keep replying to every single post just to make them feel important. Just as YOU have your right to write anything u feel like on your posts, I ALSO have the right to choose which posts to reply to. End of story. You can't force me to reply to everyone. This is fair. Fair-minded people will recognize this.
Sorry if I "ignored you" dontreally, I've been busy with work. maybe I can get u some flowers and u'll forgive me...
P.S: Is your name short for dontreallyknowsh*t??
No, its more so you ignoring the plausibility of what i wrote that irritated me. But, im sorry for my harsh and offensive tone. I was out of line.
If you had read Jung, you would recognize that experiences that appear like 'memory' could in fact be dramatizations of an inner reality. Especially when the only way to reclaim a 'memory' of a previous life, you would have to have information about that life - the time you lived in etc, and thats impossible.
So, explain to me how you recovered memories from 'Atlantis'... I know based on research and my own sound understanding of things that Atlantis, as Plato wrote it, was Allegorical and only meant to be understood as allegoy. But, you insist its literal, lets leave that aside and entertain the notion that plato meant it allegorically, as Jung suggests in one of his works. Im guessing you have experience with the meditative experience.. yes? first you calm your swarming thoughts, 'the storm wind', and allow the silence to ensue, and than comes an amplification of your inner reality, the hum..In this state you can begin to reclaim thoughts, memories etc. So in this state, you would than concentrate on lets say Atlantis. You would focus on this thought. Now, this is where i challenge the viability of such a procedure. A similar scene archetypally can be aroused if one were to focus on any other image that symbolizes what mysticism calls the 'self'. Christ, Buddah, the holy grail, fountain of youth, the philosophers stone, etc are symbols associated with this archetype. In the spiritual realm, 'the unconscious' proximityy is established through resemblance. Thus, by focusing on a thought that is associated with a concept, corresponding and reminiscent images will bubble up with it. Thus, this is the 'fantasy' that emerges. It could appear as a 'life'.
Another point that im confused about, in addition to the abscence of archeological and anthropological evidence, is how exactly could you 'trace' back all the way to atlantis. I mean, there must be 40 or 50 incarnations between that time (according to this fictive history, 10,000BCE) and now.
Ive read stories from many others of supposed memories of atlantis. Personally, i think they lack a proper understnding of the unconscious, and are caught up in the excitement of learning about a past life in a prediluvian era - however imagined it may be. One thing that causes me to reject this idea of a real atlantis is that the mind - spiritual realm - is a Real place that functions in a similar manner to the physical.. Memories, thoughts, feelings, actions, from previous generations of mankinds history are forever stored in it - as are images of fantasy. Thus, by meditating on an image of fantasy, atlantis, which is associated with an archetype and which as well has a long spiritual history as a popular meditative device, i think youre being drawn into the 'picture' and scene of a contrived reality invented long ago not a real period in human history. It could be hard to tell the difference, i can imagine. If i focused in my meditations on the holy grail i imagine i could be sucked into a fictive middle ages scene that could depict the drama of the 'self' in the garment of a middle ages reality - however it appeared at the time. But with Atlantis, keep in mind there is a mythos that has been developed since the 1880's by aquarian theologians of a pre-diluvian era that preceded our own perido. I think this story parallels the garden of Eden and mans subsequent fall. Yes, its told in a much grander more believable way, but i think its an invention like othe mythological tools is sold to the ignorant and profane as a literal event, being or reality - without knowing the allegorical mystical details the go along with it.
If youd like to believe it, go on ahead. My my main problem with this is the fact that througout the world of myth fantastic and fanciful images have been used to dramatize mankinds spiritual history. Between Goblins, vampires, giants, and mythological gods at war with each other, gods with jackal heads and other composite beings, you can either harmonize these views by realizing that theyre merely garments used to explain a higher abstract reality - as analogy is the best way to speak of these experiences, or, you ignore the others as merely whimsical inventions of primitive man - for no purpose other than entertainment, while giving credence to one particular story - Atlantis, despite the fact that youre being selective and thus subjective about it..
edit on 27-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
It's not about meditation but ideas, you do think with your left side and process with your right side.
I really don't want to get into details, meditation is all over the world. And meditation is not wrong, it's enligtment.
But you are spot on budist monks, commit suicide, why ? And the enlgish royal enlighten don't ? Maybe to moch the enlighten ? I don't think so, if you noticed tho they do have repspect for little creatures like bugs. Tho why commit suicide.?
Then again far east is where the pacific ocean starts. Notice how it sounds pacific as peace, and atlantic as atlantis.
Maybe they have been swiched around, inverted and atlantis is in the pacific ocean.
The key point is life is not ment to be disected "enligten" me for example, I refuse enligtment but it was forced on me. You lose the dark side, dark side is your human nature, heart and so on.
Thank god I'm only about 20% enlighten. Only problem with these freaks is that they control stuff, then hide, then they go ohh don't worry about it, freaking zionist comunists. Even if I were 100% enligten Iwould still not be like them. Enligtment is not it, the truth lies buried in the dark, and getting enligten will not make you find it. You will just discover the light side of things. Anyway the dark will set in soon, nothing they can do about it, no one controls god.
I would not wonder if they make an atomic war or something of the sort, just to make sure if they go humanity go's, or some sort of mascarade. Can you imagine how much suffering these people caused.
It's not about meditation but ideas, you do think with your left side and process with your right side.
I really don't want to get into details, meditation is all over the world. And meditation is not wrong, it's enligtment.
But you are spot on budist monks, commit suicide, why ? And the enlgish royal enlighten don't ? Maybe to moch the enlighten ? I don't think so, if you noticed tho they do have repspect for little creatures like bugs. Tho why commit suicide.?
Then again far east is where the pacific ocean starts. Notice how it sounds pacific as peace, and atlantic as atlantis.
Maybe they have been swiched around, inverted and atlantis is in the pacific ocean.
The key point is life is not ment to be disected "enligten" me for example, I refuse enligtment but it was forced on me. You lose the dark side, dark side is your human nature, heart and so on.
Thank god I'm only about 20% enlighten. Only problem with these freaks is that they control stuff, then hide, then they go ohh don't worry about it, freaking zionist comunists. Even if I were 100% enligten Iwould still not be like them. Enligtment is not it, the truth lies buried in the dark, and getting enligten will not make you find it. You will just discover the light side of things. Anyway the dark will set in soon, nothing they can do about it, no one controls god.
I would not wonder if they make an atomic war or something of the sort, just to make sure if they go humanity go's, or some sort of mascarade. Can you imagine how much suffering these people caused.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
It's not about meditation but ideas, you do think with your left side and process with your right side.
I really don't want to get into details, meditation is all over the world. And meditation is not wrong, it's enligtment.
But you are spot on budist monks, commit suicide, why ? And the enlgish royal enlighten don't ? Maybe to moch the enlighten ? I don't think so, if you noticed tho they do have repspect for little creatures like bugs. Tho why commit suicide.?
Then again far east is where the pacific ocean starts. Notice how it sounds pacific as peace, and atlantic as atlantis.
Maybe they have been swiched around, inverted and atlantis is in the pacific ocean.
The key point is life is not ment to be disected "enligten" me for example, I refuse enligtment but it was forced on me. You lose the dark side, dark side is your human nature, heart and so on.
Thank god I'm only about 20% enlighten. Only problem with these freaks is that they control stuff, then hide, then they go ohh don't worry about it, freaking zionist comunists. Even if I were 100% enligten Iwould still not be like them. Enligtment is not it, the truth lies buried in the dark, and getting enligten will not make you find it. You will just discover the light side of things. Anyway the dark will set in soon, nothing they can do about it, no one controls god.
I would not wonder if they make an atomic war or something of the sort, just to make sure if they go humanity go's, or some sort of mascarade. Can you imagine how much suffering these people caused.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
Im guessing you dont come from an English speaking country..
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
It's not about meditation but ideas, you do think with your left side and process with your right side.
I really don't want to get into details, meditation is all over the world. And meditation is not wrong, it's enligtment.
But you are spot on budist monks, commit suicide, why ? And the enlgish royal enlighten don't ? Maybe to moch the enlighten ? I don't think so, if you noticed tho they do have repspect for little creatures like bugs. Tho why commit suicide.?
Then again far east is where the pacific ocean starts. Notice how it sounds pacific as peace, and atlantic as atlantis.
Maybe they have been swiched around, inverted and atlantis is in the pacific ocean.
The key point is life is not ment to be disected "enligten" me for example, I refuse enligtment but it was forced on me. You lose the dark side, dark side is your human nature, heart and so on.
Thank god I'm only about 20% enlighten. Only problem with these freaks is that they control stuff, then hide, then they go ohh don't worry about it, freaking zionist comunists. Even if I were 100% enligten Iwould still not be like them. Enligtment is not it, the truth lies buried in the dark, and getting enligten will not make you find it. You will just discover the light side of things. Anyway the dark will set in soon, nothing they can do about it, no one controls god.
I would not wonder if they make an atomic war or something of the sort, just to make sure if they go humanity go's, or some sort of mascarade. Can you imagine how much suffering these people caused.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
um...what on earth did u just say? Sorry but I have lost you. Good luck in your quest for whatever ur looking for, anyway...
reply to post by dontreally
"If you had read Jung, you would recognize that experiences that appear like 'memory' could in fact be dramatizations of an inner reality."
But that's the thing. I am already familiar with this idea. Don't u see that that's why I got angry in the earlier post? You were presenting Jung as if it was something beyond my current understanding, when in truth I've far outgrown that phase.
It's very difficult to say what I'm going to say next without appearing conceited and maybe even offending you (sorry), but I'm afraid that all this stuff you keep saying about Jung and Atlantis being used by Plato only as a device, etc, is much LOWER on the hierarchy (or pyramid) of occult knowledge than the stuff I say and believe. This is my reason for almost always ignoring posts with these ideas because I know that the ppl claiming them are "trapped" at that particular level of understanding only and won't change their minds even if held at gunpoint..
I know u won't agree but I'm just explaining my side, that's all. The way I see it, all we are dealing with is "it takes one to know one", or put another way, "if u don't understand it, it's not for u to understand".
And, the ultimate proof of this is (just as I said in other posts) that if one of us doesn't stop posting, then we will keep debating this until the end of time. There are many, many things I can say if you want traditional "proof" but I KNOW you will just keep reverting back to your "Plato used Atlantis merely for...".
I used to do the same once, when I used to buy into these lies. Forget past lives, it's not something a person can just accept overnight. But, you're an ATS member, so I thought you would see through the smokescreen of this Plato/Atlantis thing at least. Read some stuff from authors like Graham Hancock, etc, and u'll see there's more than enough geological evidence that there was something like a "Flood" that took place that wiped out an earlier culture, which seemed to fit the description of Atlantis. Also the time line that Plato gave about Atlantis fits in perfectly with these findings, etc. It all fits. The truth is out there, as Mulder said, but most people only believe what they are told in school and on television. What u keep saying about Atlantis/Plato is 100% textbook Illuminati manipulation. When u see it from my perspective u will see why they would want to hide the truth about Atlantis from us.
But, anyway, this is becoming unproductive now. No offense intended, but I had to make my position clear and also had to show that I actually do know how to debate these things if I have to, but there is just no time and purpose for it really. It would take me thousands of posts to make u start changing your mind, as it would with anyone with similar views. You will arrive to the same conclusion I have if and when u are ready, one day, out of your own free will and effort. Thats' how it works.
I am on here mainly to attract people who already are on my wavelength, and not to "convert" people who are almost impossible to get through to, anyway.
We need to stop debating this now. Good bye
"If you had read Jung, you would recognize that experiences that appear like 'memory' could in fact be dramatizations of an inner reality."
But that's the thing. I am already familiar with this idea. Don't u see that that's why I got angry in the earlier post? You were presenting Jung as if it was something beyond my current understanding, when in truth I've far outgrown that phase.
It's very difficult to say what I'm going to say next without appearing conceited and maybe even offending you (sorry), but I'm afraid that all this stuff you keep saying about Jung and Atlantis being used by Plato only as a device, etc, is much LOWER on the hierarchy (or pyramid) of occult knowledge than the stuff I say and believe. This is my reason for almost always ignoring posts with these ideas because I know that the ppl claiming them are "trapped" at that particular level of understanding only and won't change their minds even if held at gunpoint..
I know u won't agree but I'm just explaining my side, that's all. The way I see it, all we are dealing with is "it takes one to know one", or put another way, "if u don't understand it, it's not for u to understand".
And, the ultimate proof of this is (just as I said in other posts) that if one of us doesn't stop posting, then we will keep debating this until the end of time. There are many, many things I can say if you want traditional "proof" but I KNOW you will just keep reverting back to your "Plato used Atlantis merely for...".
I used to do the same once, when I used to buy into these lies. Forget past lives, it's not something a person can just accept overnight. But, you're an ATS member, so I thought you would see through the smokescreen of this Plato/Atlantis thing at least. Read some stuff from authors like Graham Hancock, etc, and u'll see there's more than enough geological evidence that there was something like a "Flood" that took place that wiped out an earlier culture, which seemed to fit the description of Atlantis. Also the time line that Plato gave about Atlantis fits in perfectly with these findings, etc. It all fits. The truth is out there, as Mulder said, but most people only believe what they are told in school and on television. What u keep saying about Atlantis/Plato is 100% textbook Illuminati manipulation. When u see it from my perspective u will see why they would want to hide the truth about Atlantis from us.
But, anyway, this is becoming unproductive now. No offense intended, but I had to make my position clear and also had to show that I actually do know how to debate these things if I have to, but there is just no time and purpose for it really. It would take me thousands of posts to make u start changing your mind, as it would with anyone with similar views. You will arrive to the same conclusion I have if and when u are ready, one day, out of your own free will and effort. Thats' how it works.
I am on here mainly to attract people who already are on my wavelength, and not to "convert" people who are almost impossible to get through to, anyway.
We need to stop debating this now. Good bye
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by dontreally
"If you had read Jung, you would recognize that experiences that appear like 'memory' could in fact be dramatizations of an inner reality."
But that's the thing. I am already familiar with this idea. Don't u see that that's why I got angry in the earlier post? You were presenting Jung as if it was something beyond my current understanding, when in truth I've far outgrown that phase.
It's very difficult to say what I'm going to say next without appearing conceited and maybe even offending you (sorry), but I'm afraid that all this stuff you keep saying about Jung and Atlantis being used by Plato only as a device, etc, is much LOWER on the hierarchy (or pyramid) of occult knowledge than the stuff I say and believe. This is my reason for almost always ignoring posts with these ideas because I know that the ppl claiming them are "trapped" at that particular level of understanding only and won't change their minds even if held at gunpoint..
I know u won't agree but I'm just explaining my side, that's all. The way I see it, all we are dealing with is "it takes one to know one", or put another way, "if u don't understand it, it's not for u to understand".
And, the ultimate proof of this is (just as I said in other posts) that if one of us doesn't stop posting, then we will keep debating this until the end of time. There are many, many things I can say if you want traditional "proof" but I KNOW you will just keep reverting back to your "Plato used Atlantis merely for...".
I used to do the same once, when I used to buy into these lies. Forget past lives, it's not something a person can just accept overnight. But, you're an ATS member, so I thought you would see through the smokescreen of this Plato/Atlantis thing at least. Read some stuff from authors like Graham Hancock, etc, and u'll see there's more than enough geological evidence that there was something like a "Flood" that took place that wiped out an earlier culture, which seemed to fit the description of Atlantis. Also the time line that Plato gave about Atlantis fits in perfectly with these findings, etc. It all fits. The truth is out there, as Mulder said, but most people only believe what they are told in school and on television. What u keep saying about Atlantis/Plato is 100% textbook Illuminati manipulation. When u see it from my perspective u will see why they would want to hide the truth about Atlantis from us.
But, anyway, this is becoming unproductive now. No offense intended, but I had to make my position clear and also had to show that I actually do know how to debate these things if I have to, but there is just no time and purpose for it really. It would take me thousands of posts to make u start changing your mind, as it would with anyone with similar views. You will arrive to the same conclusion I have if and when u are ready, one day, out of your own free will and effort. Thats' how it works.
I am on here mainly to attract people who already are on my wavelength, and not to "convert" people who are almost impossible to get through to, anyway.
We need to stop debating this now. Good bye
I read Hebrew and Aramaic. Ive been studying analytical pychology - Jung, Freud, Adler, but mainly Jung for years, and i have a library full of books on Kabbalah. I`ve also spent alot of time studying the western and eastern occultic traditions.
Please, my friend, not only do i think youre somewhat conceited, but that in itself is the consquence of a serious case of self delusion. I dont "need" a little more time and i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of 'atlantis.
All ive heard from you thus far is a pathetic weasling out of giving an explanation. Just you assuring me that 'i just dont know enough' and if you did try to explain it would be too 'exhaustive' an effort. This is what people who dont feel secure in their own argumentative skills do - they give excuses. In this case, you havent even proffered one shread of evidence, or an explanation of what exactly is beyond the 'metaphorical' stage that you believe im stuck at.
If your honest claiming that platos "atlantis" as allegory is 'illuminati propaganda' you are more lost than i thought you were. Fantasy is used, especially popular with Pagan schools as a meditative vehicle, and often times as an 'astral' realm in which mystics can unite or communicate with each other. These astral realms despite how 'physical' they appear are only apprioximations and mirror images of the physical reality we come from. We borrow this imagery so we can experience this altered transphysical state. Its like a realm between 'pure' spirit, and the physical, called popularly in the occult world, and by Crowley for isntance, as the 'astral plane'.
Just give me the explanation which you say is currently beyond my 'limited' understanding. If it can be comprehended LOGICALLY, and not irrationally as some 'experience' as one has to 'experience' to know. That doesnt follow. Youre making a statement about a reality which realtes to our physical world - which means it has to be known and verified through a system of order - logic, for it to be considered probable. If you havent placed this under analytical scrutiny than i suggest you begin doing it. If you say theres proof, im not going to go read this graham hancock, anymore than i would consider plausible the theoriers of Zecharia Sitchin. Ive read all of sitchins books for isntance, and hes a complete fraud, who, like the rest of these pseudo academics, have taken proffitable advantage of the decadent subject of conspiracy. If you have a brain, wit, and a relativst morality, along with a twisted ideology, inventing theories which you yourself dont believe in can be deemed a morally acceptable practice. Afterall, who is he really harming? People have been taken advantage this way for millenia. Might is 'right'. The ignorant masses always dished a theological system of reality that greatly differs from that of their elite. So, this in itself is the same. Sitchins is a probably a gnostic freemason who is 'creating' a fictive reality in order to trivialize even further the real state of things. Trivia, Hecate in greek Mythology was the goddess of confusion. This is who people like him pay tribute to by engaging in these practices - they confuse reality for many many people - and make alot of money in the process. They can than live pleasurably. Live in a big house, go on many vacations etc.
When i was taught the significance of 'double double, toil and trouble, fire burns, and couldren bubbles' i realized the whole essence of the Greek Hellenistic philosophy. Its all about Poesis - image weaving. Double double refers to the dualistic nature of all magic tekne (the greek word for magic), magic works from Reality as it is, and 'weaves' a different reality from it. Its about a metamorphis from one state to another. This is based on the greek belief that reality is inherently subjective - as such, its contantly undergoing change - whether or not its instigated from without. "Toil and trouble", - takes a lot of work, "Fires burn" - you have to appeal to peoples passions to manipulate them, So, get their fires burning - by burning their fires you can have a reality set up for them that will lead them straight to the paradigm you have set up.. which means "Couldren bubbles", couldren is the new reality - paradigm, that bubbles - ie becomes active.
I know it a popular witches chant that we'd probably hear in loony toons or teh simpsons, but its actually based on real esoteric principles. The whole theory of magic is contained in it.
Sorry for getting off topic. Just explain to me what lies beyond the 'allegory' which typifies every single myth we have ever heard. Why is Atlantis deemed a physical reality, when it could very well be just as the other myths weve heard. Sometimes myth is told as history - like in Adam and Eve and the generations of man, other times its told in a strange way - as composite beings, as is done in India and as was done in Egypt, Babylon and the paganism of ancient europe. Or, it can be told as an elusive or hidden item - the philosophers stone, 'holy grail, fountain of youth. It can be told in innumerable ways. It just awaits the human imagination to create it. I also think alot of the popular 'conspiracy theories' like niburu, grey aliens, as well have a mystical interpretation which customarily is told as theory to the ignorant masses.
Originally posted by dontreally
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by dontreally
"If you had read Jung, you would recognize that experiences that appear like 'memory' could in fact be dramatizations of an inner reality."
But that's the thing. I am already familiar with this idea. Don't u see that that's why I got angry in the earlier post? You were presenting Jung as if it was something beyond my current understanding, when in truth I've far outgrown that phase.
It's very difficult to say what I'm going to say next without appearing conceited and maybe even offending you (sorry), but I'm afraid that all this stuff you keep saying about Jung and Atlantis being used by Plato only as a device, etc, is much LOWER on the hierarchy (or pyramid) of occult knowledge than the stuff I say and believe. This is my reason for almost always ignoring posts with these ideas because I know that the ppl claiming them are "trapped" at that particular level of understanding only and won't change their minds even if held at gunpoint..
I know u won't agree but I'm just explaining my side, that's all. The way I see it, all we are dealing with is "it takes one to know one", or put another way, "if u don't understand it, it's not for u to understand".
And, the ultimate proof of this is (just as I said in other posts) that if one of us doesn't stop posting, then we will keep debating this until the end of time. There are many, many things I can say if you want traditional "proof" but I KNOW you will just keep reverting back to your "Plato used Atlantis merely for...".
I used to do the same once, when I used to buy into these lies. Forget past lives, it's not something a person can just accept overnight. But, you're an ATS member, so I thought you would see through the smokescreen of this Plato/Atlantis thing at least. Read some stuff from authors like Graham Hancock, etc, and u'll see there's more than enough geological evidence that there was something like a "Flood" that took place that wiped out an earlier culture, which seemed to fit the description of Atlantis. Also the time line that Plato gave about Atlantis fits in perfectly with these findings, etc. It all fits. The truth is out there, as Mulder said, but most people only believe what they are told in school and on television. What u keep saying about Atlantis/Plato is 100% textbook Illuminati manipulation. When u see it from my perspective u will see why they would want to hide the truth about Atlantis from us.
But, anyway, this is becoming unproductive now. No offense intended, but I had to make my position clear and also had to show that I actually do know how to debate these things if I have to, but there is just no time and purpose for it really. It would take me thousands of posts to make u start changing your mind, as it would with anyone with similar views. You will arrive to the same conclusion I have if and when u are ready, one day, out of your own free will and effort. Thats' how it works.
I am on here mainly to attract people who already are on my wavelength, and not to "convert" people who are almost impossible to get through to, anyway.
We need to stop debating this now. Good bye
I read Hebrew and Aramaic. Ive been studying analytical pychology - Jung, Freud, Adler, but mainly Jung for years, and i have a library full of books on Kabbalah. I`ve also spent alot of time studying the western and eastern occultic traditions.
Please, my friend, not only do i think youre somewhat conceited, but that in itself is the consquence of a serious case of self delusion. I dont "need" a little more time and i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of 'atlantis.
All ive heard from you thus far is a pathetic weasling out of giving an explanation. Just you assuring me that 'i just dont know enough' and if you did try to explain it would be too 'exhaustive' an effort. This is what people who dont feel secure in their own argumentative skills do - they give excuses. In this case, you havent even proffered one shread of evidence, or an explanation of what exactly is beyond the 'metaphorical' stage that you believe im stuck at.
If your honest claiming that platos "atlantis" as allegory is 'illuminati propaganda' you are more lost than i thought you were. Fantasy is used, especially popular with Pagan schools as a meditative vehicle, and often times as an 'astral' realm in which mystics can unite or communicate with each other. These astral realms despite how 'physical' they appear are only apprioximations and mirror images of the physical reality we come from. We borrow this imagery so we can experience this altered transphysical state. Its like a realm between 'pure' spirit, and the physical, called popularly in the occult world, and by Crowley for isntance, as the 'astral plane'.
Just give me the explanation which you say is currently beyond my 'limited' understanding. If it can be comprehended LOGICALLY, and not irrationally as some 'experience' as one has to 'experience' to know. That doesnt follow. Youre making a statement about a reality which realtes to our physical world - which means it has to be known and verified through a system of order - logic, for it to be considered probable. If you havent placed this under analytical scrutiny than i suggest you begin doing it. If you say theres proof, im not going to go read this graham hancock, anymore than i would consider plausible the theoriers of Zecharia Sitchin. Ive read all of sitchins books for isntance, and hes a complete fraud, who, like the rest of these pseudo academics, have taken proffitable advantage of the decadent subject of conspiracy. If you have a brain, wit, and a relativst morality, along with a twisted ideology, inventing theories which you yourself dont believe in can be deemed a morally acceptable practice. Afterall, who is he really harming? People have been taken advantage this way for millenia. Might is 'right'. The ignorant masses always dished a theological system of reality that greatly differs from that of their elite. So, this in itself is the same. Sitchins is a probably a gnostic freemason who is 'creating' a fictive reality in order to trivialize even further the real state of things. Trivia, Hecate in greek Mythology was the goddess of confusion. This is who people like him pay tribute to by engaging in these practices - they confuse reality for many many people - and make alot of money in the process. They can than live pleasurably. Live in a big house, go on many vacations etc.
When i was taught the significance of 'double double, toil and trouble, fire burns, and couldren bubbles' i realized the whole essence of the Greek Hellenistic philosophy. Its all about Poesis - image weaving. Double double refers to the dualistic nature of all magic tekne (the greek word for magic), magic works from Reality as it is, and 'weaves' a different reality from it. Its about a metamorphis from one state to another. This is based on the greek belief that reality is inherently subjective - as such, its contantly undergoing change - whether or not its instigated from without. "Toil and trouble", - takes a lot of work, "Fires burn" - you have to appeal to peoples passions to manipulate them, So, get their fires burning - by burning their fires you can have a reality set up for them that will lead them straight to the paradigm you have set up.. which means "Couldren bubbles", couldren is the new reality - paradigm, that bubbles - ie becomes active.
I know it a popular witches chant that we'd probably hear in loony toons or teh simpsons, but its actually based on real esoteric principles. The whole theory of magic is contained in it.
Sorry for getting off topic. Just explain to me what lies beyond the 'allegory' which typifies every single myth we have ever heard. Why is Atlantis deemed a physical reality, when it could very well be just as the other myths weve heard. Sometimes myth is told as history - like in Adam and Eve and the generations of man, other times its told in a strange way - as composite beings, as is done in India and as was done in Egypt, Babylon and the paganism of ancient europe. Or, it can be told as an elusive or hidden item - the philosophers stone, 'holy grail, fountain of youth. It can be told in innumerable ways. It just awaits the human imagination to create it. I also think alot of the popular 'conspiracy theories' like niburu, grey aliens, as well have a mystical interpretation which customarily is told as theory to the ignorant masses.
VERY WELL PUT MY FRIEND!!!
For such an equivocal subject, ie; proving the existence of a land which there is little to no proof, aside from an anecdote which in itself was
mythological - an esoteric allegory, seems very very difficult. If you were truly humble, you would realize and understand that this subject lacks the
necessary physical, academic and objective support to hold as 'absolutely' true.
This is the highest spiritual level one can attain. Knowng his motives. If his motives are 'self centered' and you can know they are when youre not following a logical process of reasoning, than your argument which you defend in such a celebratory manner is an IDOL - a conceptual form which you worship. This is what the biblical prohibition of idolatry is about. For one, it calls one to be very introspective, to understand where his motivations are coming from -- from where hes deriving his spiritual "nourishment" (his raison d'etre. What motivates him ideologically, philosophically in his life). Ones reason in life is his meaning - and meaning is the most deep of spiritual ideas - its where we derive are spiritual nourishment. A person without meaning is depressed, weak, labored and pale and sick from a mental torpor. Whereas one with a reason and meaning in his life - whether that be derived from a temporal source, like girls, cars, strength, video games etc (more reasons "idols" are being created for us daily) or a spiritual source, like worshipping a spiritual power - ideology, belief system, the acquisition and worship of knowledge - all of these ultimately stem from an egotism, is vivacious. A REAL spiritually awakened person, whether Jewish, Hindu, Christian, etc will desire most of all selfless intentions. When one acts thus, he lets go of all his earthly worries; he has an air of holiness about him. I know this feeling cause when you are really sincerely seeking this state, you feel incredibly humbled. To feel such a sense is a gift from above. Being nothing before our source is the greatest gift one can be given - the joy and peace of it is simply euphoric.
If newaeon cared about these real spiritual values, he wouldnt be heralding his knowledge as the most edifying world transforming privelege that us 'limited' thinkers have ever received.
Yes, i know there will be people who will say that i do that too. But in many important ways im different. I dont claim the existence of mythological ages that contradict modern theories about civilization. I CONSIDER, them plausible. I dont know. Maybe they did exist. But lacking the necessary evidence all im provided are assumptions, ergo that is the big indicator that the belief is unprovable. As long as the evidence is lacking, it is simply a theory. And like i have already explained, mystical states that resemble 'life' are actually symbolic dramatizations of the spiritual powers within man. This highly intelligible inner reality, although irrational in the sense that it contradicts the apparent randomness of outer world, has a very meaningful order about it. Therefore, understanding this subject through Jung and the mystical writings lends credence and objectivity to this concept. It is therefore logical to believe Atlantis to be an allegory, while unlogical too assume it was a real place. They are not literal. Based on this inherent subjectivity and ambiguity itself that characterizes most spiritual experiences, you can only suppose or entertain the belief of aliens, extinct lands etc, without subscribing wholeheartedly. Everyone whos into spiritualism should know how deceptive it can be. schizophrenics know how deceptive the 'spirit' can be - they experience it non stop as audio and visual hallucinations. The spiritual powers are powerful, and the only power we humans have over them is LOGIC - RATIONALITY - The power to order and make sense of things. We have this, they do not. Theyre only there to confuse and decieve, or if one is properly using his power of logic, he instead interacts with holy forces - angels. Thats why Judaism for instance is so sensible in having specific commandments given from G-d to man. Incontrovertible laws between man and G-d. Doesnt matter what we THINK we know, or how much the evil and lucifer convinces us of our own wisdom, and 'higher understanding' we logically understnd that we are inherently finite, ephemeral, as is our logic. A greater power guides us morally, logically, and helps us to stave off the realm of impurity, of confusion - called kelipah in kabbalah. Its a 'shell' that enraps itself around true spirituality. Anyways. My arguments are usually based on reality. It suggests conspiracy yes, at the highest levels of society. It also suggests a mystical philosophy and ideology that unites the worlds leaders - in some shape or form, against the religion of Judaism. This is much more plausible considering the persecution Jews have faced from the western powers throughout the ages. And if people think the opposite, its because society in itself is treated as an esoteric project - hence freemasonry which speaks of history as 'masonic' employing metaphors like building, as hiram provided the materials for solomons temple. Therefore, the Jews are cast as the controllers while at the same being the target and victim of its system. Its a 'hit 2 birds' with one rock scenario. Its ingenious and highly sophisticated. This is because the Vatican, Europes nobility are ingenious highly adapted human beings. They appear so simple, and deliberately so, but their machinations are remarkably elaborate.
I dont think this conversation is gonna go forward unless you can explain yourself and defend your beliefs. Forums arent, or atleast shouldnt be about swallowing other peoples beliefs. We should have the basic understanding to test their reality by playing the devils advocate - an intelligent thing to do. If you simply disregard my attacks as 'weak' or as 'annoying' than thats pathetic. You cant even glorify your ideas and defend them at the same time.
That right there is textbook bafoonery...
I'd also like to say that 'higher dimensions' refer to emotion, thought, and even higher in the realm of the 'archetypes'. But, kabbalah also speaks of the world of Asiyah - the world of action. Kabbalah can be very very explicit yet convoluted when it talks about spiritual worlds. Each world has worlds and worlds within it - ad infinitum. There is definitely the possibility that in the world of asiyah, there are worlds which exist in some way beyond the '4 dimensions' of space/time, and act as a '5th' dimension, which in someway merges the higher abstract spiritual world and the lower physical world. This could mean that there world be a 'worm hole' so to speak by which one physical world in a different universe could interact with another physical world in a different physical universe, through some dimensional convergence of somesort. This could be accessed through a very sophisticated meditation. Some kabbalistic texts talk about 'other worlds' in different galaxies. For instance, there is a tradition that the constellation draco - which initself is the root of the other constellations, in that we guage the order of the zodiac through this star. Its also above the head, so its seen as the 'spiritual' root of reality, anyways, theres an opinion that asserts that it was from this galaxy that Human life was 'seeded'. Im assuming this means that man recieved its spiritual knowledge from human beings from this galaxy. It was this knowledge which brought man - 5771 years ago, out of the hunter/gatehring primitive consciousness, to a civilized being with a language and sophistated social system. This is believable, because as Erich Neuman established so finely in his 'history and origins of consciousness' human being drastically changed around the period of the bginning of the hebrew calendar - 5771 years ago, or around 3800 BCE, the beginnings of Sumer. This also corresponds with archeological knowledge about the beginnings of civilization. Our oldest evidence goes back to Sumer, along the Euphrates - Eridu. And along the euphrates and Tigres, as even the torah suggests, civilization expanded outwards. Man went to the indus valley and established the indus valley civililzation. He also went to Egypt. And from there, civilization was born.
This is the highest spiritual level one can attain. Knowng his motives. If his motives are 'self centered' and you can know they are when youre not following a logical process of reasoning, than your argument which you defend in such a celebratory manner is an IDOL - a conceptual form which you worship. This is what the biblical prohibition of idolatry is about. For one, it calls one to be very introspective, to understand where his motivations are coming from -- from where hes deriving his spiritual "nourishment" (his raison d'etre. What motivates him ideologically, philosophically in his life). Ones reason in life is his meaning - and meaning is the most deep of spiritual ideas - its where we derive are spiritual nourishment. A person without meaning is depressed, weak, labored and pale and sick from a mental torpor. Whereas one with a reason and meaning in his life - whether that be derived from a temporal source, like girls, cars, strength, video games etc (more reasons "idols" are being created for us daily) or a spiritual source, like worshipping a spiritual power - ideology, belief system, the acquisition and worship of knowledge - all of these ultimately stem from an egotism, is vivacious. A REAL spiritually awakened person, whether Jewish, Hindu, Christian, etc will desire most of all selfless intentions. When one acts thus, he lets go of all his earthly worries; he has an air of holiness about him. I know this feeling cause when you are really sincerely seeking this state, you feel incredibly humbled. To feel such a sense is a gift from above. Being nothing before our source is the greatest gift one can be given - the joy and peace of it is simply euphoric.
If newaeon cared about these real spiritual values, he wouldnt be heralding his knowledge as the most edifying world transforming privelege that us 'limited' thinkers have ever received.
Yes, i know there will be people who will say that i do that too. But in many important ways im different. I dont claim the existence of mythological ages that contradict modern theories about civilization. I CONSIDER, them plausible. I dont know. Maybe they did exist. But lacking the necessary evidence all im provided are assumptions, ergo that is the big indicator that the belief is unprovable. As long as the evidence is lacking, it is simply a theory. And like i have already explained, mystical states that resemble 'life' are actually symbolic dramatizations of the spiritual powers within man. This highly intelligible inner reality, although irrational in the sense that it contradicts the apparent randomness of outer world, has a very meaningful order about it. Therefore, understanding this subject through Jung and the mystical writings lends credence and objectivity to this concept. It is therefore logical to believe Atlantis to be an allegory, while unlogical too assume it was a real place. They are not literal. Based on this inherent subjectivity and ambiguity itself that characterizes most spiritual experiences, you can only suppose or entertain the belief of aliens, extinct lands etc, without subscribing wholeheartedly. Everyone whos into spiritualism should know how deceptive it can be. schizophrenics know how deceptive the 'spirit' can be - they experience it non stop as audio and visual hallucinations. The spiritual powers are powerful, and the only power we humans have over them is LOGIC - RATIONALITY - The power to order and make sense of things. We have this, they do not. Theyre only there to confuse and decieve, or if one is properly using his power of logic, he instead interacts with holy forces - angels. Thats why Judaism for instance is so sensible in having specific commandments given from G-d to man. Incontrovertible laws between man and G-d. Doesnt matter what we THINK we know, or how much the evil and lucifer convinces us of our own wisdom, and 'higher understanding' we logically understnd that we are inherently finite, ephemeral, as is our logic. A greater power guides us morally, logically, and helps us to stave off the realm of impurity, of confusion - called kelipah in kabbalah. Its a 'shell' that enraps itself around true spirituality. Anyways. My arguments are usually based on reality. It suggests conspiracy yes, at the highest levels of society. It also suggests a mystical philosophy and ideology that unites the worlds leaders - in some shape or form, against the religion of Judaism. This is much more plausible considering the persecution Jews have faced from the western powers throughout the ages. And if people think the opposite, its because society in itself is treated as an esoteric project - hence freemasonry which speaks of history as 'masonic' employing metaphors like building, as hiram provided the materials for solomons temple. Therefore, the Jews are cast as the controllers while at the same being the target and victim of its system. Its a 'hit 2 birds' with one rock scenario. Its ingenious and highly sophisticated. This is because the Vatican, Europes nobility are ingenious highly adapted human beings. They appear so simple, and deliberately so, but their machinations are remarkably elaborate.
I dont think this conversation is gonna go forward unless you can explain yourself and defend your beliefs. Forums arent, or atleast shouldnt be about swallowing other peoples beliefs. We should have the basic understanding to test their reality by playing the devils advocate - an intelligent thing to do. If you simply disregard my attacks as 'weak' or as 'annoying' than thats pathetic. You cant even glorify your ideas and defend them at the same time.
That right there is textbook bafoonery...
I'd also like to say that 'higher dimensions' refer to emotion, thought, and even higher in the realm of the 'archetypes'. But, kabbalah also speaks of the world of Asiyah - the world of action. Kabbalah can be very very explicit yet convoluted when it talks about spiritual worlds. Each world has worlds and worlds within it - ad infinitum. There is definitely the possibility that in the world of asiyah, there are worlds which exist in some way beyond the '4 dimensions' of space/time, and act as a '5th' dimension, which in someway merges the higher abstract spiritual world and the lower physical world. This could mean that there world be a 'worm hole' so to speak by which one physical world in a different universe could interact with another physical world in a different physical universe, through some dimensional convergence of somesort. This could be accessed through a very sophisticated meditation. Some kabbalistic texts talk about 'other worlds' in different galaxies. For instance, there is a tradition that the constellation draco - which initself is the root of the other constellations, in that we guage the order of the zodiac through this star. Its also above the head, so its seen as the 'spiritual' root of reality, anyways, theres an opinion that asserts that it was from this galaxy that Human life was 'seeded'. Im assuming this means that man recieved its spiritual knowledge from human beings from this galaxy. It was this knowledge which brought man - 5771 years ago, out of the hunter/gatehring primitive consciousness, to a civilized being with a language and sophistated social system. This is believable, because as Erich Neuman established so finely in his 'history and origins of consciousness' human being drastically changed around the period of the bginning of the hebrew calendar - 5771 years ago, or around 3800 BCE, the beginnings of Sumer. This also corresponds with archeological knowledge about the beginnings of civilization. Our oldest evidence goes back to Sumer, along the Euphrates - Eridu. And along the euphrates and Tigres, as even the torah suggests, civilization expanded outwards. Man went to the indus valley and established the indus valley civililzation. He also went to Egypt. And from there, civilization was born.
edit on 28-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
reply to post by dontreally
"i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of atlantis."
so why then ru continually pushing me to keep on replying to you? Just as I've already stated in an earlier post: clearly the only thing that will please u is if i agree with your bullsh*t. Of course, that will never happen, so this is a waste of my time. I don't know about u, but I actually have other things to do than write massive replies on forums all day.
I know I'm the OP, but it doesn't mean I have to spend all day on ATS making people feel important.
Sh*t...I was right once again! I knew that if I paid any attention to your posts, that it would lead to this.
Wow, I must be "psychic" or something.
"i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of atlantis."
so why then ru continually pushing me to keep on replying to you? Just as I've already stated in an earlier post: clearly the only thing that will please u is if i agree with your bullsh*t. Of course, that will never happen, so this is a waste of my time. I don't know about u, but I actually have other things to do than write massive replies on forums all day.
I know I'm the OP, but it doesn't mean I have to spend all day on ATS making people feel important.
Sh*t...I was right once again! I knew that if I paid any attention to your posts, that it would lead to this.
Wow, I must be "psychic" or something.
edit on 29-9-2010 by TheNewAeon2012 because: It's none of your business why
Trying to get views for a video about yourself isn't too good. Write out at least some of your argument at least! And, probably starting with proving
atlantis was real would be a better idea than trying to prove something off the assumption that atlantis is real .
Anyway, wasn't atlantis that island that was sunk from that volcanno around greece? They worshiped cows or something....dodged bulls and the dresses didn't have tops... uhh, i can't remember the name of them, but we learnt about them in class once.
Anyway, wasn't atlantis that island that was sunk from that volcanno around greece? They worshiped cows or something....dodged bulls and the dresses didn't have tops... uhh, i can't remember the name of them, but we learnt about them in class once.
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by dontreally
"i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of atlantis."
so why then ru continually pushing me to keep on replying to you? Just as I've already stated in an earlier post: clearly the only thing that will please u is if i agree with your bullsh*t. Of course, that will never happen, so this is a waste of my time. I don't know about u, but I actually have other things to do than write massive replies on forums all day.
I know I'm the OP, but it doesn't mean I have to spend all day on ATS making people feel important.
Sh*t...I was right once again! I knew that if I paid any attention to your posts, that it would lead to this.
Wow, I must be "psychic" or something.
edit on 29-9-2010 by TheNewAeon2012 because: It's none of your business why
No, you want people to make you feel important.
Instead of defending your argument, which you appear incapable of doing, you want to rave about how informed and enlightened you are, or, allow people to stroke your ego
I gave som good criticisms, and thus far, you have answered none and only returned to the futility of talking with people who disagree with you. I guess you have it all thought out, dont you?
Originally posted by dontreally
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by dontreally
"i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of atlantis."
so why then ru continually pushing me to keep on replying to you? Just as I've already stated in an earlier post: clearly the only thing that will please u is if i agree with your bullsh*t. Of course, that will never happen, so this is a waste of my time. I don't know about u, but I actually have other things to do than write massive replies on forums all day.
I know I'm the OP, but it doesn't mean I have to spend all day on ATS making people feel important.
Sh*t...I was right once again! I knew that if I paid any attention to your posts, that it would lead to this.
Wow, I must be "psychic" or something.
edit on 29-9-2010 by TheNewAeon2012 because: It's none of your business why
No, you want people to make you feel important.
Instead of defending your argument, which you appear incapable of doing, you want to rave about how informed and enlightened you are, or, allow people to stroke your ego
I gave som good criticisms, and thus far, you have answered none and only returned to the futility of talking with people who disagree with you. I guess you have it all thought out, dont you?
Listen friend, it's not like I just went out there from the outset and started telling people I'm a know-it-all. If I remember correctly u fired first by calling me an ignoramus. I didn't provoke u, so why would u do that? All i did was just bypass your original posts (which was my right anyway). It's the story of my life: people behaving badly and then when I argue & defend myself, they complain that I'm "conceited", etc.
And besides, how exactly am I supposed to answer to some stubborn ******** that says inane things like: "I will never accept Atlantis was real, for it was clearly Plato's blah, bla" Seriously whenever I see this "Plato invented Atlantis" argument from posters, I just laugh. I'm not just saying it piss u off, I mean it.
You've already made up your mind dude. It's clear from your posts. Which means the only reason you keep posting your "arguments", is, well, just to argue...
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
Originally posted by dontreally
Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by dontreally
"i can assure that no length of time between you and i posting back and forth would convince me of the reality of atlantis."
so why then ru continually pushing me to keep on replying to you? Just as I've already stated in an earlier post: clearly the only thing that will please u is if i agree with your bullsh*t. Of course, that will never happen, so this is a waste of my time. I don't know about u, but I actually have other things to do than write massive replies on forums all day.
I know I'm the OP, but it doesn't mean I have to spend all day on ATS making people feel important.
Sh*t...I was right once again! I knew that if I paid any attention to your posts, that it would lead to this.
Wow, I must be "psychic" or something.
edit on 29-9-2010 by TheNewAeon2012 because: It's none of your business why
No, you want people to make you feel important.
Instead of defending your argument, which you appear incapable of doing, you want to rave about how informed and enlightened you are, or, allow people to stroke your ego
I gave som good criticisms, and thus far, you have answered none and only returned to the futility of talking with people who disagree with you. I guess you have it all thought out, dont you?
Listen friend, it's not like I just went out there from the outset and started telling people I'm a know-it-all. If I remember correctly u fired first by calling me an ignoramus. I didn't provoke u, so why would u do that? All i did was just bypass your original posts (which was my right anyway). It's the story of my life: people behaving badly and then when I argue & defend myself, they complain that I'm "conceited", etc.
And besides, how exactly am I supposed to answer to some stubborn ******** that says inane things like: "I will never accept Atlantis was real, for it was clearly Plato's blah, bla" Seriously whenever I see this "Plato invented Atlantis" argument from posters, I just laugh. I'm not just saying it piss u off, I mean it.
You've already made up your mind dude. It's clear from your posts. Which means the only reason you keep posting your "arguments", is, well, just to argue...
So, do you believe Platos atlantis wasnt allegory at all, or meant as allegory aswell as being literal? You havent clarified this yet.
Ive already given you plenty of reasons why Atlantis, like the arthurian tales, holy grail, sword in the stone, philosophers stone, fountain of youth, among other popular midieval symbols, were used symbolically. This is an ofto used method all over the world since ancient times. For instance, right now im reading the parables of Rabbi Nachman. Each detail in the parable is packed with esoteric meaning. Each detail serves to articulate some aspect of the overall concept hes seeking to express. But expressing it through allegory is such a neat and unique way to appreciate the life within the symbol. Psychology is myth without life. myth despiritualized is psychology.
So, whats your opinion about this.
Im sorry for coming off as harsh and insulting. I apologize. i have repeatedly gone beyond the letter of what i consider morally responsible, and ive been a little arrogant. So, lets begin again and see if we can come to a common understanding.
Id like to think your first and foremost desire is to be objective - and not to herald a theory for the sake of personal glory. Whenever i have a belief that id like to share with others, im open to criticism. Infatc, i encourage it. I want my argument to be strengthened by their words, or, if they challenge me in ways wheremy argument begins to falter, im open to a more impartial view towards my attitude. And in many areas where im simply not educated enough, i capitulate.
This is some solid advice that any sane spiritual teacher from any tradition - Hindu, buddhist, or Jewish would give. Try to be objective.
I was relating my knowledge of psychology because i think its paramount - the most important and unfortunately the msot overlooked field of study. Another important subject to consider is fantasy. look at schizophrenics. Some of them have the most elaborate - very similar to that of certain mystics, of experiences, places, times, in which they never lived, yet experience. Is this REAL? some have fantasies of celebrities - - is this real? Where are we to draw the line? If one case is patently fantasy, and another more questionable, what would be the logical deduction? In my mind, its safer to lean towards sheer fantasy as opposed to a vision which to you could be a memory from a previous life.
In Jewish thought, kabbalah, experiencing knowledge of a previous existence is NOT as easy as its spoken of in the pagan world. For one, one needs to be separated from the physical. He needs to live a holy life. He cannot engage in gross material actions. If he does, it should be done in purity. Thus, in Judaism, one has to follow certain commandments. For a non Jew, this would mean taking upon yourself certain restrictions, in addition to the 7 universal laws all mankind are meant to follow. After attaining this level of purity, ones awareness is removed from the kelipot. kelipot means shell, and it alludes to levels of consciousness that hide pure, truthful divine vision. When one is being decieved, for instance, a kelipot is hiding a truth from him. When one disassociates themself from the intrinsically illusory nature of temporal existence, which means separation from the base passions, lusts and drives which conceal the vision of the soul, than, and only than is one capable of getting a clear vision of a previous life. This requires a Great deal of effort. For many, this is impossible without taking on a life of asceticism. And for those who imagine they can transcend the system - as gnosticism thinks, that they can both serve the appetites of teh body for the sake of spiritual growth - they are deluded. The only thing these people are doing is insuring that kelipot - demons, will attach themselves to him. Thus, when he does enter the meditative state he will be fed lies, false visions, experiences that will seem grand and fantastic to him. In truth, this is punishment for the self delusion theyve already committed by engaging in sinful and illict behavior.
So, to get knowledge of previous lives entails many many things, and theyre moral in nature. Sure, you can have visions in deep meditative states, but thats no different than the impressive images that swell up in dreams - this is simply a waking dream in which you are a participant. In other scenarios, as i explained earlier, the vision is a symbolic reflection of your own inenr state. Many different factors come into play when talking about visions. You have influences from the body - hunger, rest, thirst etc, emotions, experiences of the day, deep rooted character problems, thoughts, memories, all of these come into play. Only one who has so mastered his animal side can shoo these distracting thoughts away. BUT, an important but, jut because youre able to shoo those thoughts, quiet the mind, and enter a deep meditative state doesnt imply that whatever bubbles up is a sincere memory of a previous life. Like i said, the creator is vindictive with those who act arrogant with actions, thoughts and beliefs that are offensive to G-d. He will send them false visions, incorrect reports, lead them on a wild goose chase,. These people deserve it, and G-d you could say is being humorous buy doing this to them.
Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by johnny c
Do you even know what enligtment is ? you got a small gland in your head, it;'s like a lamp. you become holow by opening up the fuse while your essence go's away. You become a machine, zombie. You give your self up for enligtment, and the worst part is that you can only see one side of the coin but not the other, you think you know it all but you don't, the dark go's away forever and you will not know what is in the dark because you have chosen a side, it's enlightment. Not only that but by doing this you give up the human factor, what makes you, your self.
EN-english EN-lightment. The enlighten. The royal enlightment. American revolution never happened, you are ruled by the same people, the royals, they play you like a deck of cards. Like a game of bridge, shall we play a game ? why mate I'm "de-lighted"
I'll have a good laugh when this is over, it is you that is paying the price.
The only thing is that you re-birth as a zombie, I as a human, I continiue to have all the fun and the joy while you walk around as a robot. I the monkey am more inteligent, I am god's creation in the balance.
edit on 27-9-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
pepsi are you ok there mate . Enlightment was a word before any secert society used it.
Yes i do know what it means in every sense of the word. They way i ment it was "if someone is to give you some information that you did not know before you were told".
hello people have a interesting topic is all about atlantis island in ancient times atlantis a powerful island that is rule by they called it elder
one past down to generation to generation it was discovered by aliens from mars it was in the out skirt of portugal this aliens of today are human
beings they consist of 44 delegation from different planets like in the modern of today UN nations they come in peace from different sectors of the
universe they are called alliances of faith this discovery was after the dinosaur period the island was described like this in the center of the
island there was a pyramid like in the aztec period and in the north ern part of the island mountain ranges and then valley then beach head in the
southern part there are villas and pier and terrain and the western part there was villas and beach head and in the eastern part of the island there
was a pier and villas smooth terrrain and its capital atlanticos city the first elder one was pamparicos and last elder one was aman rarenticos that
was when atlantis sunk to the bottom off the ocean the cost of destgruction of atlantis was the explosion of the power sources of the island that
created huge tremors that made thew island like a jugsaw puzzle before it sunk it sunk in the period of ramsesII reign after plato died this here are
the part of the list of the 44 delegates from different sectors in the universe
mars white , light brown people
venus red skin
saturn yellow skin
mercury russian, latvia,estonia,georgia,lithunia
platikos african,aborigines people
tronataka malayan races
bynum middle east
nokrapata bulb head races
jupiter white caucasian
agelican winged people
gumbaticoka reptilians
palemade greek race
in atlantis this was the center of commerce at ancient times and delegation meet giving diamonds and gold and precious stones for the elder one from there planets there corporation to make buildings like babylon and tower of babel ziggurat and pyramids in south and noth america and to it a secret not to teach to much technology to decendents like us today others escape the blast of atlantis and others fly there spaceship out to other planets to seachers again the people left here in planets earth struggle to survive with lack of technology andd the stone blocks half of it came from the stone cliff of mars from pyramid s of egypt and ziggurat
and the universe is divide in to sectors the known sectors are 500 million sectors and estimation of sectors are 900 zillion 20 times by people from mars the look like us and there are millions planets like ours we belong to the sectors 5 group that are compose of 250million planets
mars white , light brown people
venus red skin
saturn yellow skin
mercury russian, latvia,estonia,georgia,lithunia
platikos african,aborigines people
tronataka malayan races
bynum middle east
nokrapata bulb head races
jupiter white caucasian
agelican winged people
gumbaticoka reptilians
palemade greek race
in atlantis this was the center of commerce at ancient times and delegation meet giving diamonds and gold and precious stones for the elder one from there planets there corporation to make buildings like babylon and tower of babel ziggurat and pyramids in south and noth america and to it a secret not to teach to much technology to decendents like us today others escape the blast of atlantis and others fly there spaceship out to other planets to seachers again the people left here in planets earth struggle to survive with lack of technology andd the stone blocks half of it came from the stone cliff of mars from pyramid s of egypt and ziggurat
and the universe is divide in to sectors the known sectors are 500 million sectors and estimation of sectors are 900 zillion 20 times by people from mars the look like us and there are millions planets like ours we belong to the sectors 5 group that are compose of 250million planets
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