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When are the OSers gonna end? Zero evidence to point to any concise conclusion.

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posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


I think people conversing over facts and evidence could come to a reasonable conclusion, if in fact there was evidence, and if there werent people trying to derail the investigation. which seems to be what OSers do. you dont wish to investigate, you wish to manipulate, and misinform. I dont agrer with everything truthers say, but I barely agree with OSers. it is absurb to suggest we have the facts, and the conclusion is the OS is right. absolutely ridiculous. all Ive been saying is there should be an investigation, and the OSers should not interupt. if you wish to debunk others research, make your owb thread, debunking it. dont clutter the thoughts and idea of those who are doing something they feel is serious, while you just think they are absurd. if that continues, there will definately never be a conclusion, and the arguement will make its way to the streets. whos side would the OSers be on then?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by CynicalM
 

Well it didn`t GoodolDave long to make his voice heard.
There should be another three or four OS believers having their say soon......or maybe not?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Dave, you saw my 9/11 OS challenge thread...

Why not give it a try..Prove to us that the OS is valid and fits the facts of that day...

There is a definite lack of OSer threads apart from the ones debunking...

Try a different tack, I see you have only started 3 threads, all attacking truthers basically...

Stop playing the negative and try making a positive stance instead...



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by CynicalM

But thats only if you believe the myriad of theories that I believe are partly spread by dissinfo agents to muddy the waters and discredit the real truthers...
And please dont tell me our Goverment does not have paid dissinfo agents..The WH admits it...


In truth, I don't know whether they do or whether they do not. All I know is that some of these conspiracy claims are just so simply off the wall, outer space crackpot in their conception (I.E.9/11 was staged by a secret group of shape shifting alien lizards as a science experiment to see how humans would react) that they absolutely have to come from genuine off the wall, outer space crackpots. Others arer so insidious and deliberate in their manipulation (I.E. creative editing of photos that, if left unedited, shows the exact opposite of what they're claiming) that it's obvious they're outright con artists involved in deliberate deception for financial gain.

There genuinely are off the wall, outer space crackpots as well as outright con artists out there among your ranks, regardless of whether you acknowledge the fact or not.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:28 AM
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I think that the biggest problem lies in labeling people as OS'ers and Truthers. No one is that clear cut, and I know I certainly am not. What I do is examine the evidence I'm presented with and find out a reasonable explanation that makes sense. What I've personally found is that the OS about the collapse of the towers is completely true.

Unfortunately, every time, without fail that I try to defend the reasoning behind this, there are always people that shove their fingers in their ears and start singing "You're just an OS'er who's so ignorant! It's so sad that you can't see with my special eyes!"

I have even been known to change my position on certain things as new evidence is presented to me, but the problem I run into when confronted by many Truthers is that they post "what if" scenarios and then determine a conclusion based on their hypothetical.

For example: In the molten steel thread, evidence of molten steel found in the rubble of the trade centers weeks after the collapse was recovered. I, like any reasonable person, wondered how it got there. Looking at the evidence, I could only determine that it "was" there, and not "how" it got there. The two theories regarding it that are reasonable to me were that either the steel melted while in the tower before the collapse, or that it became melted after the collapse. Knowing that things get much hotter, especially with other known molten material already present that were not steel (to the best of my knowledge based on the heat the fires could reach), while underground, I found the latter to be more likely.

The people I talk to just think "Oh noes, that's too close to what the government said! It must be a lie, and therefor I will not even consider it in my line of thought. The other, less likely one must be the answer, and in order to support that, I will concoct a complicated conspiracy that would have been able to pull it off. Simple answers are for blind idiots, even though I have no evidence." ~generic Truther argument, paraphrased severely.

And when these simple answers to conspiracy questions are answered, what do I keep hearing repeatedly? "No! Prove that my point is wrong, not that yours is right!" That is comparable to saying that their point is God, and that you must prove he doesn't exist to make them stop believing. My points don't have to be supernatural ideas. They are just my best logical conclusion to the evidence, and simply because they parallel the OS, I constantly see ridicule and ignorance everywhere on this forum.

I know that the majority here believe in the conspiracy, but if someone started a religion, say Scientology, was a science fiction author, and managed to get some followers, over 10 years a lot of people who don't feel like doing their own intelligent research would start believing in Scientology and accepting it as fact.

The point of this forum is to deny ignorance, not fly with the majority.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by CynicalM
 


" Good work mate, now you're trying to debunk something I didn't even mention... "

This is what I always find incredulous , from alot of you guys . You post something , then when you are called on it , you just flat out lie about what you said or claim that is not what you meant .

Now , if you will , please explain to me how that is something you "didn't even mention" , in light of the following ...

" The new SOP is to post en mass (sic) ..."

" ...It's a tactic to bore other posters by posting en mass (sic) and blanketing the thread ..."



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



There genuinely are off the wall, outer space crackpots as well as outright con artists out there among your ranks, regardless of whether you acknowledge the fact or not.


Some would say they are more likely to be from "your" ranks than the truthers as I previously posted,
but you only quoted the part of my post that suited you..



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 



The new SOP is to post en mass


Mate, you sound half intelligent...

Posting en mass does NOT mean they outnumber the truthers...

It simply means they are more active in the thread..

Also very long posts are the SOP from what I see and you honour that role..



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 

But Dave, its not just the crackpot ones.
You seem to have a go at everyone that has an opinion against the OS.
As i`ve said before. The government had their conspiracy theory from day one and it`s the same story from that day.
It`s the first time i have seen a crime solved before an investigation.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by lambros56
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 

But Dave, its not just the crackpot ones.
You seem to have a go at everyone that has an opinion against the OS.
As i`ve said before. The government had their conspiracy theory from day one and it`s the same story from that day.
It`s the first time i have seen a crime solved before an investigation.



Just for argument's sake, isn't it a common conspiracy theory toted fact that the government knew the attack would happen before-hand?

The government has thousands of threats checked every day and it is almost impossible to know which ones are substantiated. All it would take is a reference to the file they opened regarding a possible hijacking threat and boom, they have a quick and easy answer.

It is equally possible that they planned it all themselves, but much less likely.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by lambros56
 



It`s the first time i have seen a crime solved before an investigation.


Not just solved but most of the hijackers named and their history in a matter of days...



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


" For example, some claim not to be able to comprehend certain really elementary concepts, but have no problem with even MORE complicated concepts. This would suggest that they are ignoring data that doesn't fit there position, ..."

Now , that right there , is something I can agree with .

Truthers are not able to comprehend that 19 terrorists were responsible for 9/11 but , they have no problem believing that thousands , if not tens of thousands , of Americans were involved .


edit on 23-9-2010 by okbmd because: changed "responsible" to "involved"



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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when federal officials say they have no evidence linking the accused, to the accusation, I think its safe to say we dont have a conclusion to the situation. which is really all Ive said, and that would should either link the two, and confirm the OS, or find the truth in whatever it may be, that concludes with out a doubt who was involved and what actually happened, makes more sense than alot of things ive learned in life. anyone else agree..



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


I have rarely ever seeb anyone imply hundreds of thousands of americans were responsible for the training. perfect example how OSers manipulate, and misinform the topic of conversation. thanks for making a point for me.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 



Truthers are not able to comprehend that 19 terrorists were responsible for 9/11 but , they have no problem believing that thousands , if not tens of thousands , of Americans were responsible .


Where do you get 'believing that thousands , if not tens of thousands " from?

BTW, I believe 19 terrorists could hijack 4 planes..Flying them the way they did with limited experience is another ball game..

Its also the little things...
Like finding Atta;s almost undamaged passport on the streets...
Finding it and realising what was found is one miracle..
Being (probably) smashed through a building's walls, exploding in flames hot enough to melt steel, and then gently floating to the streets on the other side of the building is an extreme stretch of imagination..



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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One other thing that doesn't add up.
If you believe the O.S., why make it a point to come to a thread(s) with NOTHING, over and over again, where you know the intent is to question the O.S.?
I know what the half-dozen or so are going to post as soon as I see WHO it is. The only one's I see coming with possible explanations of what DOESN'T fit, are the "truthers". The O.S.ers usually stand by every absurd finding of the official sham.
Any normal person would have given up trying to "teach" the truthers the error of their ways LONG ago, so I suppose we are dealing with abby normal.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by CynicalM
 


" Ahh memories...

The first thread you started on ATS..

www.abovetopsecret.com... "


Actually , that was thread #26 , that I started on ATS .

I don't see the relevance of what you are getting at . What I do see though , is more lack of thorough research on the part of a truther .

" Now aint that just the darnest (sic) of coincidences..... "



edit on 23-9-2010 by okbmd because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Dave, you saw my 9/11 OS challenge thread...

Why not give it a try..Prove to us that the OS is valid and fits the facts of that day...

There is a definite lack of OSer threads apart from the ones debunking...

Try a different tack, I see you have only started 3 threads, all attacking truthers basically...

Stop playing the negative and try making a positive stance instead...


It's an honest question and it deserves an honest answer, so let's start from the beginning...you saw for yourself that the Islamic world is just so hard core, rabid dog fanatic about their faith that they'll even riot and kill each other over cartoons of Mohammed printed in Danish newspapers. You saw for yourself how Iran issued a death sentence on Salman Rushdie simply for writing a slanderous book. You saw for yourself back in the 70's-80's that Islamic extremists will not only hijack passenger aircraft, but the occasional cruise liner too. You saw for yourself how Islamic fanatics can get the idea that it'll please God somehow by going into a crowded marketplace in Iraq and blowing themselves and a bunch of innocent bystanders up. Plus, you saw for yourself recently how a certain Islamic fundamentalist would even be so brutal as to kidnap someone, tie them up, and then cut their head off with a knife...all on videotape.

How then can you say the Islamic world could NOT breed a few religious zealots who'd think they're doing God's will by hijacking a few planes and using them in suicide attacks? Please, explain that one to me.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by okbmd
 



Truthers are not able to comprehend that 19 terrorists were responsible for 9/11 but , they have no problem believing that thousands , if not tens of thousands , of Americans were responsible .


Where do you get 'believing that thousands , if not tens of thousands " from?

BTW, I believe 19 terrorists could hijack 4 planes..Flying them the way they did with limited experience is another ball game..

Its also the little things...
Like finding Atta;s almost undamaged passport on the streets...
Finding it and realising what was found is one miracle..
Being (probably) smashed through a building's walls, exploding in flames hot enough to melt steel, and then gently floating to the streets on the other side of the building is an extreme stretch of imagination..


Not really. If you imagine it was in the cockpit or the luggage, then when the plane smashed through and shredded itself to pieces, a lot of material could have easily been ejected out of the windows by the force of the explosion. It is extremely unlikely to find a passport, but it's easier to believe than if they had found all the terrorists passports.

Also, it has not been determined whether or not the steel melted from the fires in the towers or from the other molten metal while underground.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



How then can you say the Islamic world could NOT breed a few religious zealots who'd think they're doing God's will by hijacking a few planes and using them in suicide attacks? Please, explain that one to me.


I wouldn't argue that point for a second though maybe I feel they would have some different motives..

But the question is "did they" not would they like too...

I would also point out there have been many well documented false flag attacks and even planning of other false flag attackes, but that is irrelevant to my challenge also...

Either take the challenge or carry on as you are...
No difference to me although I would like to see an OSer try to be something more than a negative poster..



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