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Why not use hydrogen.....?

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posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:05 AM
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For starters, Freemason hit the nail on the head when he stated that it takes much more energy to create usable hydrogen than is derived from the same amount of hydrogen.

Seconldy hydrogen is not burned... it is the reconstitution of hydrogen molecules with oxygen molecules that release the energy that charges the fuel cell. There is ZERO combustion involved in this energy technique, hence the only emmission being water... two parts hydrogen with 1 part oxygen yeilds pure water.

Finally, aside from the shear cost involved in producing usable hydrogen and the unintended consequences to the environment resulting from it's production, I'm suprised that nobody touched on the safety aspect of pure hydrogen. It is extremely volotile and explosive. That introduces the issue of transport, storage, fueling and of course, the result of hydrogen vehicle collisions.

There are many issues that must be worked out before hydrogen is a truly viable fuel alternative. I realize that they are developing and researching many environmentally friendly hydrogen production techniques, but they are a long way off from being able to meet the projected demand of a hydrogen driven transportation system. Secondary to that, they have yet to develop safe and economical means of transport and storage of the fuel.

Well, that's my two cents anyway...




posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Seconldy hydrogen is not burned... it is the reconstitution of hydrogen molecules with oxygen molecules that release the energy that charges the fuel cell. There is ZERO combustion involved in this energy technique, hence the only emmission being water... two parts hydrogen with 1 part oxygen yeilds pure water.


To quote the dictionary:
com·bus·tion (km-bschn)
n.

1) The process of burning.
2) A chemical change, especially oxidation, accompanied by the production of heat and light.


The combination of hydrogen and oxygen (oxidation), accompanied by the production of heat (and light) sounds like the textbook definition of combustion to me.... It just so happens that the only product of it is water. (water is virtually always a process of combustion - just not the only one)



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Starwars I had been through that already, I don't know what to call hydrogen and oxygen combining to make water in a Fuel Cell, it just isn't "combustion". It's short of the by product CO2.

Orangemonkey and Crystal I think need to do a little more reading, however, before giving us their opinions.

Crystal has the problem thinking that producing hydrogen is not a problem. It is a problem. It takes seriously 5 times as much energy to produce hydrogen as it does to burn gasoline. So please tell me how we are to generate the electricity to produce hydrogen?

The other immediate problem is storage...oil burns, gasoline doesn't explode unless it has vaporized, however hydrogen in any state will explode very easily.

And it's a big boom.

When something goes horribly wrong in a refinery usually it's just flames shooting in the air.

If something goes wrong in a hydrogen production facility it'll be more like a nuclear bomb going off.

Finally orangemonkey.

You think Hydrogen is "free energy".

Well sure, if it just happens to waft its way into a fuel cell.

So how do you suggest it just waft into a fuel cell?



posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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Please people, consider the conservation of energy laws.
If you are contemplating making a self-sustaining deveice that splits (aka electrolysis) of water, to make hydrogen and oxygen, which then re-combust, and uses that energy to power things AND power electrolysis, it is not possible because of the law I stated above.
There will be, at the very least, some small loss to sound, or heat transfer systems will not (pretty much by definition) be 100% efficient, you cant even make it self-sustaining, let alone energy-productive.
Which is why scientists are trying to find catalysts to help lower the energy required for electrolysis so that we might be able to produce even a small amount of power!



posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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Why dont we use hydrogen


Because 20% of the world economy comes from oil and 99.9% of the world relies on oil as its main source of fuel, whether that be to move your fruit and veg to your supermarket or to drive your ass to work everyday, or power the power station that provides you with electricity.

Supply and demand just doesnt exist for hydrogen yet. But it will

The shift from oil to Hydrogen needs to be phased in over time and will do as the price of oil ever increases in price for one of many reasons. Whether that comes down to terrorism, global warming or simply oil reserves run dry.

Lets harness the power of solar and make hydrogen reality.



posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 07:12 AM
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I cant remember where i got this but i saved it to my comp.....Here ya go:.

Sorry it's a bit of a rad and i'm basically i guess, spamming the board, but it's on topic so here goes.:


PRELIMINARY PLANS



TO RUN YOUR CAR ON TAP WATER!



IT ALSO WORKS ON YOUR

TRUCK / RV / MOTORCYCLE / AIRPLANE (ETC)



Will This Work?



These plans were sent to the Spirit of Ma'at anonymously, from someone who does not want his or her name printed (for obvious reasons).



We have had them checked by an expert who believes that they are real.



We also have talked with another individual who has patented a similar device, and we know by personal experience that the technology is sound.



So although we cannot guarantee it, we believe these plans will enable you to build a car that runs on water.



If you test it out, though, do as the writer suggests and use an old car that doesn't represent a loss of value if you can't make it work. And leave everything intact so that you can always reconnect back to gas if you have to.



But if you do get it working, please send us your experience for our readers. You could be a national hero and help save our country and our world.



We know for certain that an automobile will run on water. So this could be an interesting project for you mechanical types, with a great reward of never having to purchase gasoline for the rest of your life — and helping humanity at the same time.



Re The Need to Rustproof Your Exhaust System



It is possible to make a hybrid of both gas and water (a system that is being tested now in Mexico), which would eliminate the need to open the head and remove the exhaust system. Just a thought. It takes only a small amount of gas to keep the system dry.



The text sent from the anonymous individual was edited slightly for better reading. The following is his/her words and drawings, which has been given into the public domain.

— Spirit of Ma’at LLC



Introduction

In working with these instructions,
you will first want to print out the diagrams
at Figure 1 (labeled Figure 4) and Figure 2
(labeled Figure 5). The diagrams are
large files, so please be patient while they load.

It is suggested you try this out to begin with on a second vehicle you own, one that you don't need to live with everyday, until you perfect this technology.



Do-it-yourself plans allow the individual (that's you and me, folks) to make a difference. This is the easiest and lowest-cost way to convert your car to run on (relatively) free energy.



Now, with existing technology, anyone can stand up and make a difference by reducing the local automotive pollution, eliminate gasoline expenses, help restore our atmosphere, and breathe a little easier.



In putting these plans into operation, you will be making use of your entire existing system except for the fuel tank and the catalytic converter.



The Plan



Build and install a low-cost alternative method for running your vehicle (internal combustion engine) on tap water, using off-the-shelf components.



This is simply an efficient way to convert ordinary tap water into gaseous hydrogen and oxygen, and then burn these vapors in the engine, instead of gasoline.



This "minisystem" runs easily from your existing battery and electrical system, and it plugs into your carburetor with simple off-the-shelf fittings.



You will be installing a plastic water tank, a control circuit, a reaction chamber, a hi-pressure carb/FI fitting, and 3 gauges, and then hooking into your existing carb/FI.



The simplicity comes from its being an "on-demand" system requiring no fancy storage or plumbing. You crank the gas pedal or throttle, and you electrically create more vapor for immediate consumption, on demand; low-high flow rate as needed, from idle to maximum power. The only real change is that you are using tap water as fuel, instead of the traditional petroleum-based fuel.



Given a choice, which way would you choose?



Frequently Asked Questions



Q: Does it really work ?

A: Yes; this is well-established technology dating back to stainless steel. But be sure to follow these instructions using the proper mechanical and electrical assembly techniques, as this plan incorporates the best qualities of several techniques.



Q: How does it qualify as "free energy"?

A: If you're paying someone for the water you use, then it is not strictly free. But the alternative is to keep buying into expen$ive ga$oline and its resultant hydrocarbon pollution.



Q: Is it safe?

A: Technically, it is safer than running on fossil fuel because you are no longer choking on your own emissions (health-wise). In general, it is practically as safe as your current gasoline arrangement. You will be installing a few simple safety devices, using current automotive standards.



Q: What kind of performance can I expect?

A: Properly adjusted, your modified vapor-only fuel system will run cooler, and at a modestly higher power level. The mileage performance expected from this design ranges from 50-300 mpg (of water), depending on your adjusting skills.



Q: Can I do the modification myself?

A: Why not? If you don't have any mechanical skills, and you know someone with basic mechanical and/or electrical skills, you can even delegate some of the construction. If you are using a fuel-injected engine, you may have to get a mechanic's opinion. [There will have to be an adapter inserted into the fuel-injection system, just as you would have to do if you were going to run on propane, hydrogen, or natural gas. Ed.)



Q: What is the environmental impact that my vehicle will have?

A: It will be producing H20 steam (water vapor) and unburnt O2 (Oxygen). Hence, it will be cleaning the environment, rather than dumping nauseous toxins into it. Plus you will be helping to save our dwindling supply of atmospheric oxygen. Any excess vapor in the reaction becomes either steam or oxygen. You can also expect to be receiving more than casual interest from those around you.



Q: Isn’t this really a steam engine?

A: No. Really. Exceedingly high temperature and pressure are not used. This is strictly an internal-combustion engine (burning orthohydrogen) with residual steam in the exhaust as a by-product.



Read This



There are a few things you should know about gasoline:



Gasoline as a fuel is not necessary; it is optional.



Gasoline versus Water



There is a lot of thermochemical energy in gasoline, but there is even more energy in water. The DOE (Department of Energy) has quoted about 40%, so it is probably much more than that.



Most people are unaware that "internal combustion" is defined as "a thermo-vapor process" — as in "no liquid in the reaction." Most of the gasoline in a standard internal combustion engine is actually consumed, (cooked, and finally, broken down) in the catalytic converter after the fuel has been not-so-burnt in the engine. Sadly, this means that most of the fuel we use in this way is used only to cool down the combustion process, a pollution-ridden and inefficient means of doing that.



How It Works



Exceedingly simple. Water is pumped as needed to replenish and maintain the liquid level in the chamber. The electrodes are vibrated with a 0.5-5A electrical pulse which breaks 2(H2O) => 2H2 + O2. When the pressure reaches say 30-60 psi, you turn the key and go. You step on the pedal, you send more energy to the electrodes, and thus more vapor to the cylinders; i.e. fuel vapor on demand.



You set the idle max-flow rate to get the most efficient use of power, and you're off to the races.



In the big picture, your free energy is coming from the tap water in an open system, as the latent energy in the water is enough to power the engine and hence drive the alternator and whatever belt-driven accessories. And the alternator is efficient enough to run the various electrical loads (10 - 20 amps), including the additional low current to run this vapor reaction. No extra batteries are required.



STEP BY STEP CONSTRUCTION



OVERVIEW - Here is the suggested sequence of steps:



1. Install the CHT (or EGT) gauge and measure your current operating temp range (gasoline), for comparison.



2. Build and test the controller to verify the correct pulse output.



3. Build the reaction chamber and test it with the controller (i.e pressure out).



4. Install the tank, controller, chamber, and pressure fittings.



5. Run engine and adjust the control circuit as necessary for best performance.



6. Install the stainless steel valves and get the pistons/cylinders coated with ceramic.



7. Coat the exhaust system with ceramic without the catalytic converter (or let it rust out and then replace the whole dang thang with stainless steel pipe sections).



YOU WILL NEED



· plastic water tank with pump and level sensor.

· control circuit, wiring, connectors, and epoxy.

· reaction chamber with electrodes and fittings.

· 3/8" stainless steel flex-tubing, fittings and clamps.

· carb/FI vapor-pressure fitting kit. - pressure, CHT (or EGT), & level gauges.

· stainless steel valves.

· copper mesh junction.

· ceramic surface treatment for cylinders & pistons.

· stainless steel or ceramic treated exhaust assembly.



BASIC TOOLS



· drill, screwdriver and pliers

· hole cutter

· wire-wrap, solder-iron and clippers

· DVM and oscilloscope.



REACTION CHAMBER



Construct as shown in the diagram. Use a section of 4" PVC waste pipe with a threaded screw-cap fitting on one end and a standard end-cap at the other. Make sure to drill-and-epoxy or tap threads thru the PVC components for all fittings. Set and control the water level in the chamber so that it well submerses the pipe electrodes; yet leave some headroom to build up the hydrogen/oxygen vapor pressure. Use stainless steel wires inside the chamber or otherwise use a protective coating; use insulated wires outside. Ensure that the epoxy perfects the seal, or otherwise lay down a bead of water-proof silicone that can hold pressure.



The screw fitting may require soft silicone sealant, or a gasket; its purpose is to hold pressure and allow periodic inspection of the electrodes. No leaks, no problems. Make sure you get a symmetric 1-5mm gap between the 2 stainless steel pipes. The referenced literature suggests that the closer to 1mm you get, the better. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.



Make your solder connections at the wire/electrode junctions nice, smooth, and solid; then apply a water-proof coating, e.g. the epoxy you use for joining the pipes to the screw cap. This epoxy must be waterproof and be capable of holding metal to plastic under pressure. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.



CONTROL CIRCUIT



The diagrams show a simple circuit to control and drive this mini-system. You are going to make a 'square-pulse' signal that 'plays' the electrodes like a tuning fork; which you can watch on an oscilloscope. The premise given by the literature is: the faster you want do go down the road, the 'fatter' you make the pulses going into the reaction chamber. Duty cycle will vary with the throttle in the vicinity of 90%MARK 10%SPACE (OFF/ON).



There is nothing sacred about how the pulse waveform is generated; there are many ways to generate pulses, and the attached diagrams show a few. The NE555-circuit approach (see diagrams) is from the referenced patent. The output switching transistor must be rated for 1-5 amps @ 12VDC (in saturation).



Go with a plan that works for you or your friendly neighborhood technoid or mechanic, and go get all the circuit elements from your local electronics store, such as Radio-Shack or Circuits-R-Us, including the circuit board, IC sockets, and enclosure/box.



DigiKey has better selection, service, and knowledge; plus they have no minimum order. Be sure to use a circuit board with a built-in ground plane, and to accommodate room for mounting 2 or 3 of the gauges. Mounting the reaction chamber in the engine compartment will require running a stub to your pressure gauge where you can watch it.



You can easily make 30-gauge wire-wrap connections between the socket pins and thru-hole discrete components having wire leads. Also make sure to get spec sheets on any IC you use. More details of the best circuits to use will be announced pending prototype testing. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.



Throttle Control



If you have a throttle position sensor, you should be able to access the signal from the sensor itself OR from the computer connector. This signal is input to the circuit as the primary control (i.e. throttle level = pulse width = vapor rate).



If you don't have such a signal available, you will have to rig a rotary POT (variable resistor) to the gas linkage (i.e. coupled to something at the gas pedal or throttle cable running to the carb or FI. If you make the attachment at the carb/FI, be sure to use a POT that can handle the engine temp cycles. Don't use a cheezy-cheapy POT; get one rated for long life and mechanical wear; mount it securely to something sturdy and stationary that will not fall apart when you step on the gas.



Control Range. The full throttle RANGE (idle-max) MUST control the vapor rate, i.e. pulse-width (duty). The resistor values at the throttle signal must allow the throttle signal voltage, say 1-4 Volt swing, to drive the VAPOR RATE. You will be using this voltage swing to generate a 10% ON 'square' pulse. The patent implies using a 'resonant' pulse in the 10-250 KHz frequency range; but it is not explicitly stated so.



In this circuit, you will simply tune to whatever frequency makes the most efficient vapor conversion. You will have to get into the specs for each IC you use, to insure you connect the right pins to the right wires, to control the frequency and pulse width. You can use spare sockets to try out different discrete component values. Just keep the ones that are spec-compatible in the circuit, and get the job done.



You crank up the throttle signal and put more electrical energy (fatter pulses) into the electrodes; verify you can get 10% duty on the scope (2 - 100 usec on the horizontal time-base). Your averaging DVM will display the 90%-10% DC voltage across the output transistor (Vce or Vds or Output to Ground). Set and connect DVM in the supply current and measure .5 - 5 amps, without blowing the DVM fuse. Now verify that you got everything you wanted.



Verify your wiring connections using your DVM as a continuity detector. Check your wiring 1 at a time and yellow line your final schematic as you go. You can best use board-mount miniature POTs for anything you want to set-and-forget. The LEDs are there to give you a quick visual check of normal vs abnormal operation of your new creation. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.



CARB/FI CONNECTION



The diagrams also show that fittings are required to the carb/FI l. There are ready-made kits (such as by Impco) available for making your pressure fittings to the carburetor or fuel-injector as the case may be. You will necessarily be sealing the built-in vents and making a 1-way air-intake.



The copper mesh comprises the inadvertent backfire' protection for the reaction chamber. Make sure that all vapor/duct junctions are air-tight and holding full pressure without leakage. Your new 'system' is considered successful and properly adjusted when you get the full power range at lower temp and minimum vapor flow without blowing the pressure safety valve.



CHT (or EGT)



Monitor your engine temp with the CHT (cylinder head temp) or EGT (exhaust gas temp) instead of your original engine temp indicator (if any). Your existing gauge is too slow for this application and will not warn you against overheating until after you have burnt something. Make sure that your engine runs no hotter than in the gasoline arrangement. VDO makes a CHT gauge with a platinum sensor that fits under your spark plug against the cylinder head (make sure it is really clean before you re-install your spark plug (as this is also an electrical ground).



ENGINE/EXHAUST TREATMENT



Get the valves replaced with stainless steel ones and get the pistons/cylinders ceramic-treated ASAP when you have successfully converted and run your new creation. Do not delay as these items will rust, either by sheer use or by neglect (i.e. letting it sit). You could make max use of your current exhaust system by using it with your new deal until it rusts through, then have your mechanic or welder friend to fit a stainless steel exhaust pipe (no catalytic converter is required). But it could be easier and cheaper to send your existing exhaust system out for the ceramic treatment, and then simply re-attach it to the exhaust ports.







GENERAL



1. Do not discard or remove any of the old gasoline setup components, e.g. tank, carb/FI, catalytic converter, unless necessary. Better to always leave an easy way to revert back to something that at least runs, just in case. Some people are leaving their gasoline setup completely intact, and switching back and forth at will, just to have a backup plan.



2. Set your throttle circuit so that you get minimum vapor flow at idle, and maximum vapor flow at full power without blowing the pressure relief valve. In this way, you control how 'lean' your mixture is by the strength of the pulse (i.e. “fatness” at the optimum pulse frequency).



3. If you just don't get enough power (at any throttle setting), it means that you need to (1) change the pulse frequency, (2) change the gap between the electrodes, (3) change the size (bigger) electrodes, or (4) make a higher output pulse voltage (last resort). Always use an output transistor, such as a MOSFET, that is rated for the voltage and current you need to get the job done. OK so you might have to play around with it some. Isn't that where all the Fun is anyhow?



4. If you get any engine knock our loud combustions (not compensated by adjusting the timing), it means that you need to install an additional coil in the chamber, and drive the coil with an additional pulse signal (about 19 Hz on the .1sec time base). Here, you will be slowing down the burn rate just enough so that the vapors burn thru out the power stroke of the piston. Be sure to include a board-mount POT to set the correct strength of this 2nd pulse signal into the coil. This is a stainless steel coil of about 1500 turns (thin wire) that you can arrange like a donut around the center pipe (but NOT touching either electrode), directly over the circular 1-5mm gap. You want no knocking at any power/throttle setting; smooth power only, but also no excess hydrogen leftover from the combustion.



5. Build the canister(s) as tall as you can without compromising your ability to mount them conveniently near the dash panel, or in the engine compartment, as the case may be. This way, you can always make the electrodes bigger, if necessary without undue hardship. Remember that anything in the engine compartment should be mounted in a bullet-proof, vibration and temperature tolerant fashion.



6. If you have to drill a thru-hole for wiring or plumbing thru metal, make sure to also install a grommet for protection against chafing. Always watch your chamber pressure range from IDLE (15-25 psi) - FULL POWER (30-60 psi). Set your safety-pressure relief-valve to 75 psi and make sure it's rated for much higher.



7. Shut OFF the power switch and pull over if there is any malfunction of the system. Your engine will last longest when it still develops FULL POWER+ at some minimum temperature that we are sure you can find, by leaning back the Royal Vapor Flow and/or by making use of the water-vapor cooling technique. Keep good mpg performance records, and periodic maintenance/inspection. Keep it clean; save some money; clean the air; heal the planet; happy motoring; tell a friend; enjoy your freedom and self-empowerment.



8. There lacks documented material for perfecting this vapor system thru a fuel injector; there may be some details you will discover on your own as working prototypes progress. For example, you may be restricted to inject the hydrogen/oxygen vapor without any water vapor, as it may rust the injectors. If engine temp and CHT is a problem, then you will want to re-think your plan, e.g. ceramic-coating the injectors. There is always “replacing the FI system with a Carb.”



9. If you install the water-vapor system (for lower operating temp/stress), you will want to lean the mixture (vapor/air) for minimum vapor flow rate to achieve any given throttle position (idle - max). Make sure that you get a minimum flow for IDLE and a modestly sufficient flow for MAX, that does the cooling job without killing the combustion.



10. If you cannot find stainless steel pipe combinations that yield the 1-5mm gap, you can always regress back to alternating plates of +/- electrodes.



11. If you are concerned about the water freezing in your system, you can (a) add some 98% isopropyl alcohol and re-adjust the pulse frequency accordingly; or (b) install some electric heating coils.



12. Do not let ANYONE ever compromise your dream, your freedom, your independence or your truth.



REFERENCES

Stephen Chambers 'Apparatus for Producing Orthohydrogen and/or

Parahydrogen' US Patent 6126794, uspto.gov

Stanley Meyer 'Method for the Production of a Fuel Gas' US Patent 4936961,

uspto.gov

Creative Science & Research, 'Fuel From Water', fuelless.com

Carl Cella “A Water-Fuelled Car” Nexus Magazine Oct-Nov 1996

Peter Lindemann “Where in the World is All the Free Energy”, free-energy.cc

George Wiseman “The Gas-Saver and HyCO Series” eagle-research.com

C. Michael Holler “The Dromedary Newsletter” and “SuperCarb Techniques”

Stephen Chambers “Prototype Vapor Fuel System” xogen.com



COMMON LAW COPYRIGHT #285714: All rights to the use and duplication of these plans are hereby reserved for the People, in their efforts to heal and restore the environment. Dare to express your uniqueness and environmental ideals. This technology is an exercise in responsible self-determination.



DISCLAIMER: The Spirit of Ma'at LLC and the Spirit of Ma'at ezine and the author of this document assumes no liability for the use or misuse of this information; which is made available as public-domain information and free of charge, for the purposes of education, ecology, health, well-being, freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.



posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by DaRAGE
I cant remember where i got this but i saved it to my comp.....Here ya go:.

Sorry it's a bit of a rad and i'm basically i guess, spamming the board, but it's on topic so here goes.:

.. snipped..

DISCLAIMER: The Spirit of Ma'at LLC and the Spirit of Ma'at ezine and the author of this document assumes no liability for the use or misuse of this information; which is made available as public-domain information and free of charge, for the purposes of education, ecology, health, well-being, freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.





I guess you missed the point about it taking more energy to seperate the Hydrogen and Oxygen in water than you get from recombining it - making this whole idea useless.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:39 PM
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With standard electrolysis it is ineffecient to produce hydrogen. Currently there are some claims that it can be done efficiently using salt water and the right catalyst. The hope is that the right catalyst will allow the H2O to be split efficiently. The energy given off with you let the H2 and O get back together is, of course, tremendous (that's rocket fuel).

Should we be spending our time and $ in reseach and development of current Hydrogen Fuel Cells? I think we would better served to research and develop an efficient way to split the water molecule. If hydrogen can be produced on demand from H2O, for an engine, then there would be no storage of hydrogen, no explosive hazard, and minimal new infrastructure issues. Oh, and we wouldn't have to worry about the 'water reserves' running dry.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 12:48 AM
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.
I believe there are two different ways hydrogen can be used in an automobile.
1) convert a standard internal combustion engine to use hydrogen fuel.
2) create a fuel cell to derive electricity from combining oxygen & hydrogen.

If you get hydrogen from relatively benign sources such as wind, tide, solar, then the pollution effects of using hydrogen become almost nil.

for those of you who think technology won't be able to fill the bill here is a new solar cell that improves current models by 140% to 260%.
www.newscientist.com...

the future belongs to the agile mind.
.


XL5

posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 02:07 AM
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Why convert gas/oil, wind, hydro, nuc into electricity then into hydrogen then into heat and sound. Why not skip the losses and develop super capacitors that are much lighter then batteries of the same energy and store the energy as electricity and have a 80-90% effen. motor? Capacitors can charge VERY fast and be draind of power and shorted and live. Solar cells are good too and they go well together.

It takes 4 times the gas (energy) to move an object only 2 times more heavy to the same rate (accl and speed) as it would for something 2 times lighter.

1/2 (F x Vsq)=Joules (F=Farads, V=volts)



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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this following is coming from www.whitehouse.gov



Fact Sheet: Hydrogen Fuel: a Clean and Secure Energy Future


In his State of the Union address, President Bush announced a $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel initiative to reverse America's growing dependence on foreign oil by developing the technology for commercially viable hydrogen-powered fuel cells to power cars, trucks, homes and businesses with no pollution or greenhouse gases. The hydrogen fuel initiative will include $720 million in new funding over the next five years to develop the technologies and infrastructure to produce, store, and distribute hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles and electricity generation. Combined with the FreedomCAR (Cooperative Automotive Research) initiative, President Bush is proposing a total of $1.7 billion over the next five years to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies.

Under the President's hydrogen fuel initiative, the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by fuel cells. The hydrogen fuel initiative complements the President's existing FreedomCAR initiative, which is developing technologies needed for mass production of safe and affordable hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles. Through partnerships with the private sector, the hydrogen fuel initiative and FreedomCAR will make it practical and cost-effective for large numbers of Americans to choose to use clean, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2020. This will dramatically improve America's energy security by significantly reducing the need for imported oil, as well as help clean our air and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.



rest of text click on the link

www.whitehouse.gov...



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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hydrogene is not a source of energy its only the carrier of energy.
to create it we need gas, coal , solar, wind , hydrothermo or with
the waves of the sea. People say. but I don't hear people talking about
using FUssion nuclear power, people say oh yeah that is much worse because of waste but that depents on what u use for fuel in the reactor.
FIssion uses uranium or plutonium if i am correct but FUssion uses other
fuels. for example Helium 3 but that is currently only found on the moon surface and not much on earth. maybe using why not make it our selfs with the help of nanotech. we have made synthesist fuels before why not helium 3 its only binding some stuff together on the atomic and subatomic level. :s using nanobots we can make it on earth in theory.




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