Religion is true, now what?

---This is a hypothetical thread..a exercise in testing your core beliefs---


Heya ATS

Awhile back, I created a thread entitled: So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false? and it went well enough. I found the most thoughtful answers came from agnostics/athiests in addressing the question (they seemed to have the least to lose in core belief which allowed them to speculate more freely.

Now I wanted to switch things around a bit

---WHAT IF---

Religion was proven true...every single word of it..the practices, the whole god thing, all of it..you went back in time and discovered it was all true, or some other evidence that personally persuaded you beyond any doubt that indeed it was absolute fact. Don't get caught up in the details of what it was that convinced you...just that something happened that left you absolutely certain it was truth.

The questions are obvious, but lets put a twist in it so that people already religious will be able to also think critically here.

Lets say, the religion is not your religion..come to find out, your brand (those that have one) was false, the true religion is actually not yours. Lets use as the default, Islam...yep, Islam has been proven absolutely correct

-note...to our islamic friends visiting the website..your in the minority, so simply replace islam with christianity for your answer-

Now...with the twist in mind, and not a discussion on how you wouldn't believe (something only you can describe that convinced you...decide what it would take to convince you...thats what happened)...how would you react?

Would you become devout? Would you want to change the country to reflect the religion you know to be true? How would life change for you?

_________________________________

As for myself,
I find the implication so profound that I am at a mental loss. I want to say from an agnostic viewpoint that I would remain agnostic on principle, but my own reactions would be perhaps to join the flock and do what is written out of fear of a eternal tormented soul...but, the understanding of my going to the religion would be that I did not go to glorify a creator, but rather out of little more than fear...which would make me fear even more, knowing that my respect for such a creator would be at a all time low...still, I would try my hardest to make enough brownie points to get to paradise...it would be a chaotic series of actions trying to overcome my lack of respect...complete disruption of any sense of self.

... Well .. Fear .. Fear God yes... . but Bless You and Yours ..
... As you Read this .. you have not to fear . .the Fire... yet ..
.. I know of the last day .. and I know .. what has happened already .. I also know that it is not to late to .change what is to come .. all must realize this .. and have Faith that .. the reward to come is the Kingdom Of Heaven .. for all who believe in the word of the One True God ... and those who turn away from faith shall bring the fire so if you wish for peace and long for the reward.. The Kingdom Of Heaven ..then let it be known that .. the One True God... awaits and looks to his chosen people to have faith and to desire peace .. for there must be peace or the day of fire will come just has it has before .. and will continue .. again .. until we reach the Kingdom of God ..
..the compass points to the Kingdom and If you hear words of the Lord then you should be thankful that you are alive and watching.... and prey ..that everyone is watching ..
..Gold Bless You and Yours .. Bless Everyone ...

reply to post by Vonour


Man I wish I could have the power to delete off topic posts.


Reread the post please...this isn't a call to prayer, its a philosophical question

hopefully you can be respectful enough to remove your post and actually respond to the topic?

reply to post by SaturnFX

I'd find out first, what is the minimum I have to do to be saved.
Then I'd apologize my to friends from that religion that I may have teased, and give a big "We told you so" to the my friends from the others that now have egg on their faces. I'd burn their now useless books on my shelf, since if one was proven true to everybody, not even the flea market could sell the books of the others.
Assuming it's not Islam, I'd go for a drink.
If it is Islam I'd get a nightime job, so that I can eat and smoke all night during the fast, and sleep through the day.
If it's Hinduism I'd change very little. I'm already a vegetarian and could be better in my next life.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I'd find out first, what is the minimum I have to do to be saved.
Then I'd apologize my to friends from that religion that I may have teased, and give a big "We told you so" to the my friends from the others that now have egg on their faces. I'd burn their now useless books on my shelf, since if one was proven true to everybody, not even the flea market could sell the books of the others.
Assuming it's not Islam, I'd go for a drink.
If it is Islam I'd get a nightime job, so that I can eat and smoke all night during the fast, and sleep through the day.
If it's Hinduism I'd change very little. I'm already a vegetarian and could be better in my next life.

edit on 22-9-2010 by halfoldman because: Afterthought

Thanks for the response.

I guess it could be worse...Scientology could prove to be the one.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Lets say, the religion is not your religion..come to find out, your brand (those that have one) was false, the true religion is actually not yours. Lets use as the default, Islam...yep, Islam has been proven absolutely correct

The Islam with 100 virgins in paradise wating for me if I die a martyr?

What sane man would want anything to do with that kind of afterlife?

To be serious for a moment....about the only option would be to ask for forgiveness, bow down facing Mecca and hope for the best.

Originally posted by Vonour
and I know .. what has happened already .. I also know that it is not to late to .change what is to come .. all

At the expense of going off topic for a brief moment, I just cant take it...I need to point out at least one thing for the crazy talk it is.


your quote loosely paraphrased into:

I watched the movie on dvd and know how it ends...I just hope that when I watch it again, the ending will be different.

ok, going to let it stand just as that...back on topic now.

I would like that

It would give everyone the chance to interrupt it for themselves...which I think is the only way to learn.

reply to post by SaturnFX


According to some, religion is already proven true. Regarding your previous thread (and according to some), religion is already proven false.

Hey, maybe then I just have to live on, regardless of that.

Also, religions are true because they exists even if the object of worship aren't that necessary.

Personally, I don't care whether religions are false or true - for me, they are irrelevant. The only way that they affect me, is that I see millions after millions being deceived and it makes me pity them.

-v

I think if one particular religion was proven to be true then it would probably mean more wars and violence since the people of the religion which isn't proven true but have believed it for so long and would probably be so angry they are now being told that this religion is the right religion and not their own.

For me personally I still wouldn't follow it, I would accept it to be there just like gravity or light but all religion is in essence is teaching how to live right and the cause and effect of what we sow.

The feeling of the damnation of hell just doesn't sit with me because nobody knows what it is just as nobody knows what heaven is, or maybe some do.

Therefore I would probably end up where I am supposed to end up given the choices of my life that I have chose on my own to get to my ultimate path of why I'm here, whether I believed in it or not it would still eventually have an effect on my just as I can deny gravity exists yet if I jump off a building I know I will fall and hit the ground. Gravity doesn't care if I believe in it or not its role is too major to care about if I believe in it or not but it will still act its will upon me.

So if religion is true I would apply the same thing and know that believing in it or not would still mean I am a part of it. I don't need religion to see where I can improve my life because I'm inside my body and I hear what it's saying and will act accordingly. I know whats morally right and wrong for me and nobody other than human beings on earth have taught me that.

But also as vo1i0 points out and I'd agree I think parts of alot of them are true or can be a truth applied to life.

Regards,

Panda

Saturn,

it's a stroke of genius, you've produced here.

I hope, that I stay within topic limits, when I try this one:

Let's put the distinction between mainstream christianity and gnosticism.

Let's say I defend gnosticism (which I'm a bit sweet on in an intellectual way), and discovered, that mainstream christianity is 'true'. Then my first consideration would be to define 'truth' in this context.

Is this an ultimate 'truth' or just a truth inside my present grasp of knowledge and ability to 'understand'. That is from 'inside' creation.

In mainstream christianity their 'god' is both creator and ultimate reality.

For us (for the duration) gnostics, the christian 'god' is a creator, but not ultimate reality. There's a knowledge/understanding gap between creation and ultimate 'reality'.

If I am to answer your hypothetical situation, I would start with going beyond creation and see if there's anything more 'real' on the other side. And if I get close to ultimate 'reality', I would ask: "What the heck is really going on?"

I'm aware, that I haven't answered your question exactly to the point. But then I think, that in a context of ultimate truth, the question is meaningless, as Buddha once said (...now, where did HE come from?), except as a psychological measure of 'faith'.

reply to post by SaturnFX

I would think that for somebody who has actually invested tons and tons of money in books, retreats and courses and find out for a fact something else is true, it would be devastating.
Then there is a change of lifestyle, particularly switching from a Western to a non-Western system.
Changes in washing and toilet habits, changes of diet, clothes, home decor, alcohol, clean vs unclean.
Just becomming slightly "Hindu" over a decade ago was a big shock for my family.
Now, becoming Christian (if current evangelism was true) would be a shock - burning all my favorite deities, decor and occult books.

But there are 3 unclarities:
1. Do only I find another religion to be personally true, or does everybody get the same proof?
Everybody has a religion, arguably even secular humanism is a "religion". So you're maybe talking of changing religion. It would be easier if everybody did it with me. I'd be less likely to be an outcast or relocate. Are you talking of global or personal revelation?
2. Are you talking of only the central truth, salvation or 5 pillars of a religion to be revealed, or every little interpretation, law and habit that became attached to it over the years must be obeyed?
3. Then, is it one broad religion, or must it be a specific form? Would it be Christianity, or specifically the Catholics or the Westboro interpretation? Could it be Islam, or Sunni or Shiite specifically?
I really hope it's not something expensive like Scientology.
I'd probably have to chuck out all my gay stuff.
Luckily I'm already circumcised, if it's anything Abrahamic.
However, if God truelly revealed Himself to be true, I'd probably feel the love, and all that would be very easy.
All material things would be like nothing to burn and give up.
But that revelation would interfere in my free will, which would be God making me a robot through His awesome rays of love. So it would be a love-hate thing.
I hope it's something cheap, with a bit of a beat, like Rastafarianism or Shiva devotion.

You know what OP, I think it could be a great thing. All the mid-East problems would be solved if the Jews all converted to Islam, or the Palestinians all converted to Judaism. Voila - no more need for separate states.
So how about it people?

Originally posted by halfoldman

1. Do only I find another religion to be personally true, or does everybody get the same proof?
Everybody has a religion, arguably even secular humanism is a "religion".

in the context of this thread, lets say its just you...it was only you that travelled through time, or whatever else in order to give you the absolute proof you needed...unfortunately, you didn't have the opportunity to bring back anything to back up your claim...so it would be just your word your left with of your experience...no safety in numbers to duck out.

makes it more fun when its not a pop culture move but something that would test your desire for eternal salvation over immediate gratification of being accepted.

the other questions you can answer yourself how you deem fit...hair splitting really.

Isn't it this what religion does anyway, the people who have experiences with God/Spirit etc to come to a faith which doesn't matter if other people believe it or not though and they have no proof to show only what they feel in their heart ?

You have those that quote the bible and then you have those that have read texts but had an experience anyway but they do not quote the bible but more the general concept of it, if you know what I mean

Panda

reply to post by bluepanda

Yeah, it does now seem like the conversion experiences that people have everyday in any case.
It would have been far more interesting if the whole world got undeniable proof that one or other religion were true.
Imagine the clamour for certain books, objects, sermons, places of worship and pilgramage.
They'd burst at the seams.
That stampede would kill more than religious wars.

Imagine if Jesus came back and announced on TV that the Mormons were right.
People would become hysterical and flood Utah and every single Mormon church.
They'd break down buildings and hijack planes for proxy baptisms.
Insert any other faith.
Chaos and destruction would ensue.

Originally posted by bluepanda
Isn't it this what religion does anyway, the people who have experiences with God/Spirit etc to come to a faith which doesn't matter if other people believe it or not though and they have no proof to show only what they feel in their heart ?

You have those that quote the bible and then you have those that have read texts but had an experience anyway but they do not quote the bible but more the general concept of it, if you know what I mean

Panda

mhmm, but this is more about switching a core belief into something you either thought was either complete myth, or something you believed was some sort of heathen religion...a grand change in your viewpoint into something you probably hate...the implications of kneeling to a God that goes against what you have labelled good and holy in a deity due to a realization that that was the truth.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by bluepanda

 

Yeah, it does now seem like the conversion experiences that people have everday in any case.
It would have been far more interesting if the whole world got undeniable proof that one or other religion were true.
Imagine the clamour for certain books, objects, sermons, places of worship and pilgramage.
They'd burst at the seams.
That stampede would kill more than religious wars.

That would be too easy actually...people are great in flocks...its venturing out alone against the tide of familiarity where our true desires stand out.
If being popular wasn't so critical to our egos, we would be wearing comfortable clothes verses stylish clothes...we will forego money and comfort so others can accept us...

mhmm, but this is more about switching a core belief into something you either thought was either complete myth, or something you believed was some sort of heathen religion...a grand change in your viewpoint into something you probably hate...the implications of kneeling to a God that goes against what you have labelled good and holy in a deity due to a realization that that was the truth.

Yeah I guess in that respect it would be a nice thing for me since I hold no belief but then again I wouldn't call myself atheist or agnostic, tbh I don't know what I'd call myself sometimes so for me it would benefit in terms of I could at least be using something I knew to be true.

I think if it did happen the benevolent person which revealed such a truth would probably say yes your right about some of this religion and that one and that one

I think the truth is there in some ways anyway its just how its being presented

I'd love to be born with a Life Manual 1.0 just as I get one with a dvd player telling you exactly how it works without the fairy dust and magic.

You'd probably find your path in life when your about 10 with no problems.

I just can't see how it would be bad if it's the truth of things. Everything thats happened in our human history theres nothing I feel angry about I mean what's the point it's happened and we are who we are. I just want things to change and humanity progress with the full potential that we do have in us.

One of the fundamental flaws in mankind being we only seem to find our brilliance and touch the human spirit for all its worth usually in the face of great adversity, obviously there are those that do this anyway but en masse.

Sorry going off-topic I ramble muchly

Panda

reply to post by SaturnFX

But personal conversations are what people have already done and continue to do.
And a conversion experience in a society that spurns whatever one is converting to has already been experienced.
Even for commited evangelical Christians it's not easy, as they said in my day: "Go against the flow, become a holy Joe".
Unless you convert to something that is in tune with your family and society (more often a re-conversion) it is a difficult path, but it's a common experience.
I suppose it entails making a radical change, no matter what.
More often psychological issues are more efficient than a time machine.
Some people just come into contact with what appeals to them, and often it's simply because it is different.

Sorry OP, thanks for the clarifications, but I took the OP to mean what would happen if a specific religion was revealed globally as the only truth - what would the others do? So that really made me think about the different possibilities in each case.

Otherwise every religion offers a community or "pop" culture. One might be leaving one birth family for another kind of spiritual family, but no faith is a lonesome walk as such. In fact people may swop faiths because they like the inclusion and social events of another. So the conversion may be lonely when one exits the time machine, but every major city in the Western sphere has a social community of whatever faith you find to welcome you.

reply to post by SaturnFX
SaturnFX,
Well the first task is to find the True One and that one has A Saviour and once you've found the Way you lhave found life eternal. You must enter in at the "straight" gate and get on the straight and narrow path and few be that find it. You got to be one of these,--

De 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

But the following is the way most of the world is going for, - -

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Get on the right track and look for the way that was made at a tremendous price. This world is so full of dis-info it is not an easy task I assure you.

Do look for Truth and it can be found, It is looking for you, it is found in His Word and His Word is Truth and that is who He is.

Truthiron