Originally posted by bogomil
with due respect. If 'christianity' is rooted in gnosticism, it must be invisible roots. From the beginning of the Jesus movement, some of his
disciples were at odds with some of the gnostics (gnosticism not being a completely homogenous system).
Paulus, when he hijacked the Jesus movement, wasn't exactly fond of gnostics either, and increasing tension between paulinism and gnosticism
eventually culminated in the albigensian crusade, where most gnostic were exterminated.
So the question is, which christians are rooted in which gnosticism? Antinomianism isn't a very good indication, as it can mean different things in
The all-male pauline trinity is most likely a construct. All the existing Eurasian trinities before paulinism included a female part, which the
paulines changed to male somewhat after they re-introduced a trinity.
Not trying to cut you down. I really am interested.
PS This direction is a bit off-topic, so I will not pursue it to much.
Im familiar with the history of Gnosticism. It goes much further back than the historical gnostic movement of basilides etc, prior to the hermetic
sermons and still further than the late neo platonism - these 3 being all essentially akin. Gnosticism is paganism, rooted in the theological
attitudes of the ancient Greek, Bebylonian, Egyptian and Indian philosophies.
Im not only criticizing christianituy, but attacking its entire foundation. Christianity began as an invention of the roman empire to deal with the
historic "jewish problem" the pagans have had with the people of Israel. If you analyze the archetypal themes in the new testament it doesnt call
for any specific behavior, but leaves it so much in the open - the absract.. waiting to be interpreted by the initiate. This is the crux of the
taditionalist school - an ambivalence, a void, an open end - everyone living according to their own laws because reality is inherently sucjective -
morally relevant, nihilistic. New Testament is very very closely related with popular greek theologies of Hesiod, Homer, Orpheus, and you can
specifically sense the presence of Egyptian and Hermetic influences popular at that time in Egypt and the levant. If youre familiar with the
archetypal pagan mentality as im familar with it, than you would have to start asking some major questions. Rabbinic writings talk heavily, especially
ancient midrashes in an allegorical manenr of the nature of the enemy of Judaism - called Amalek. Amaleks "philosophy' which is also the philosophy
of the builders of babel and the persuasion of the snake in genesis, is to convince man that to follow G-d and be like G-d, G-ds command "do not eat
from the tree of good and evil" revealed so goes the 'logic' of the snake, a dialectical point. G-d emphasizing Good and evil in the statement "do
not eat of the tree of good and evil") indicated a duality. Thats what the snake told eve. You have a CHOICE. He mentioned a duality, and he
commanded you NOT to eat of it. Implying than (or suggesting in the mind of adam - snake being a symbol for the spiritual function which feigns as
truth by presenting its own logic, but is in truth confused and counter intuitive - what it assumes and than establishes is often morally wrong - thus
allowing man to follow his own sense of right and wrong rather than his conscience, which is G-ds knowledge, present within his being) that G-ds true
intention was for man to disobey his command and therefore be like G-d by exercizing his OWN independence. This is what gnosticism is based on; this
one tidbit from the Torah describes the beginnings of a spiritual philosophy among mankind, of whom the popular pagan nations trace themelves back to.
Eve ate of it, as did adam and because of this tragic mistake mans reasoning faculties became severely impaired. G-d created the satan to tempt man;
to devise any machinations possible to test mans intellectual faculties and devotion to G-d. But, satan having one job (as all angels do), which is
too tempt, can sometimes be done with to much fervor - which in this case is what happened. He fell by actually causing man to sin and continuing it
to worsen for the SAKE of G-d (strange logic eh? He was so desirous to be close to G-d that he overperformed his angelic duty) With this fall from
G-ds grace mankind became more disposed to the will and desires of the physical body. Instead of uniting the physical with the spiritual, as adam and
eve were created to do, mankind entered a field of a constant battle, for 120 years to fight off the will of his lower side. But, a certain group,
Cain and his descendents, symbolized a different mentality.. Gnosticism. They believed the fall deliberate by G-d and they believed that G-d had
wanted Adam and Eve to sin..Therefore, gnostics deify the evil principle, the power of dissent and chaos. They believe all reality is essentially null
and void so therefore, man is to remain morally and consciously indifferent of the viccissitudes of lower existence - of his external relationships.
Therefore the outer world was false and the inner world was true. Its about glorifying the SELF- where Satan is imagined as Hermes, who acts as a
messenger between the Gods and man. Man rises above the "illusion" of the outer world and embraces the reality of his inner world. What HE deems
right, according to his own personal and NATURAL (hence mary worship in todays churchs - becoming especially relevant with all the supposes
apparitions of mary - probably staged events to symbolize the advent of the feminien function - as was the moon landing and woodstock happening on the
same week) incliation is whats his natural law. His G-d is himself. This is Krishna in Hinduism, Boddhisatva in Buddhism, Christ in Christianity, Al
Khadir in Islam, Hermes, Dionyous, Bacchus, Apollo, Philemon, Nebo, Tammuz, Horus, Thor, King Arthur, the philosophers stone, the fountain o youth,
different names for the same symbolic reality called by mystics the 'self' the transcendent function whch embraces both poles in himself.
So because all of this is true, i naturally wonder what is orthodox christianity aside from a mechanism to control the ignorant masses. Islam carried
themselves in the same manner. To those who didnt accept their religion, doom and damnation was destined for them, whetehr it comes in the next life
in the form of hell or in this world at the hand of christs or mohommads elect. Judaism is completely unique in this respect. it explcity says in the
Talmu Bavli (a cornerstone of rabbinic judaism/law) that the RIGHTEOUS of all the nations have a place in olam haba (heaven). Its a tenet of Orthodox
Judaism. All people, as long as they follow the 7 universal laws fo noach deliniated in the Talmud, have a place in heaven. Makes no different what
specific religion you embrace. If your sincere and love G-d, and perform good deeds, you have a heaven awaiting you.
People dont seem to realize how dramatically rational this is compared to Islam and Christianity. I think based on this fact alone, Judaism elevates
itself morally above both of them.
Its mainly my understanding of Judaism and Kabbalah that i have realized what i do. I know its notp opular among christians and it probably irritates
them. I know its offensive but i have no choice but to follow my gut. Christianity claim to be the fullfilment of Judaism, and yet christianity shares
more in common with gnostic and pagan spirituality than with Judaism. historically, Judaism has stood out as the only real objectively moral spiritual
system. In other lands, sure, they had a code of ethics but their code was as todays secular codes were. Its a social mechanism to maintain law and
order as opposed to an immutable law imposed on mankind from the creator. In a Jewish society, as it was in the kingdom of Israel, all the people were
instructed in the inenr wisdom. Not so in the pagan world.. the people were stupified and offered a dramatically different version of the mysteries
that their leaders understood. It was a controlled paradigm...as it was than, so it is now. Christianity inheriting the social structure of pagandom,
and in fact, the vatican proudly displays a 4500 year old Egyptian obelisk erected at heliopolis in the egyptian 5th dynasty. It was eventually
brought to alexandria and then rested in neros colliseum which overlook hundreds of gladitorial battles.
Also, follow catholicism. Pius XII who declared the assumption of mary notably had a gnostic philosophy. He personally didnt intervene in the
holocaust because of a policy of neutrality, peace and negotation between opposing powers. His 'taking it easy' enabled the germans to do all they
did. In his personal theology, he thought the pope to be god on earth, as pharoah was to the egyptians; he being christs vicar on earth and therefore
as good as being christ himself. This philosophy of the ancients is morally repugnant. A few people here have this attitude, like neo christian