Fundamentalist/Conservative Christianity isn't really Christianity at all, just a tool of the PBT

First, let's look at what it really takes to be a Christian, shall we:



Belief that The Old Testament (The Jewish Tanakh) is the Word of God- Well, those who practice Judaism also believe that this is the Word of God, so this in itself cannot be a definition of what a Christian is. Also this text contains many passages that any truly moral person would find reprehensible:



I think everyone would agree that Jesus would not be in favor of any of the actions mentioned in the above video, thus strict adherence to the Old Testament is not what makes a Christian a Christian.



Adherence to the Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth- Now this, plus the belief that Jesus was the Son of God Himself, IS what it takes to consider oneself a Christian. Jesus gave his followers just two simple commandments:

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Matthew 22:37-40

ANYTHING that falls outside of these two simple commandments should be considered outside of Christianity.

Now let's look at some of the things that Conservative/Fundamentalist 'Christians' are against in the US these days:



Homosexuality Now anyone here who has been involved in, or read any of the homosexual themed threads here on ATS knows that the Fundamentalists would gladly round up and lock away (if not eliminate) every homosexual on the planet if they could. And look at those who initiated and supported Prop 8 and other such initiatives across the country. It was all started by and supported by the 'Christian' right. Well, how can this be reconciled with the commandment of "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."??? If this is how you show your Gay neighbors love, please do not move into my neighborhood! In fact, while this type of action and mindset does coincide with the teachings of the Old Testament, it is in direct contradiction with the teachings of Jesus himself. Thus to embrace such tactics is unchristian.

"Suppose there was an intelligence, vast and unknowable. Suppose it lit the big bang, suppose it wrote the laws of physics, and has been subtly moulding the universe for 14 billion years. Now keep a straight face and tell me that it cares where you stick your (slang term for penis)."

-Dr. Michio Kaku



Islam- There has been an absolute cocophony of screaming about the building of Mosques here in the States as of late. Not just the one two blocks from Ground Zero, but all across the country. Now leaving the First Amendment issue aside, this also is in direct contradiction with that second commandment of Jesus'. He didn't say to only love your christian neighbors, or your jewish neighbors, but all your neighbors. Again, if this is how you love your neighbors, please do not move into my neighborhood.

Now I could keep going on and on with examples of how the Conservative/Fundamentalist Christian Right is in direct contradition with the teachings of Jesus himself, but I won't.

And also don't take this as a condemnation of all Christians. There are many out there that go out of their way to serve the poor and needy unselfishly every day in homeless shelters, soup kitchens and abused women's shelters every day, and my hat is off to them! They show me that true Christianity still does exist, and that not everyone has been corrupted by millenia of dogma. To them I say keep up the Good Work!

But to the 90% or more who call themselves Christians, but then show by their actions that they are not, but instead are just political pawns used by the power elite to keep that power, you need to check yourself!

It's a conspiracy that goes right back to Roman times. The rich and powerful use dogma that has nothing to do with the teachings of it's founder to control the flock of sheeple who call themselves the faithful. You want to call yourself a Fundamentalist? Then get back to the fundamentals: Matthew 22:37-40 Otherwise, just have the decency to not hide your hate and contempt for those who are not like you behind your supposed Religion.

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Christianity is a false religion and a mockery of christs teachings of just that.

Well displayed thread.

Expect flames to erupt...people hate having a core belief shown to be little more than a tool used to keep a business powerful at the expense of corrupting the actual thing they are pretending to hold up high.

Ego is far more powerful than understanding...but, there may be the lurker that stumbles across this thread and renounces christianity corp to instead simply live the commandments that christ taught...(aka, become a true christian of sorts).

as an agnostic, I have no problem with christ...but man does he have some crazy fanatics


(disclaimer - I also see christ as a symbol more than a actual person...the story of christ predates christianity and is in many other ancient religions...but christian corp won the rights from the story long ago)

As a 58 year old theological teacher, I have heard all of these points that the writers make here. So this is nothing new to me or my Rabbi friends. I spoke to a Muslin woman the other night who was very well educated. I told her I have a rare cancer and she said this to me. I am so sorry to hear that, I will pray to Allah for you. I said to her straight into her eyes that I was a infidel because I was not a Muslim and that in fact according to the Quran she should kill me on the spot. How can you pray to Allah to heal me if Allah wants me dead ? Should could not answer the question and I refuse to debate this subject. But this thread caught my eye and it is old hat news my friends. Thank you for reading this.

Fundamentalists are not deserving to be on ATS. Deny ignorance is truly against their core beliefs. űAnd they shamelesly play together with big industrial interests and colonialism as well as with a tinge of racism against the "ragheads".
To the poster before me: no, Allah is supposed to the be same god. The rules of strict Islam do not apply to you as an "infidel" - if you believe in One God, there can be no others, except different rules and interpretations... I think a Muslim woman praying for you may have a similar effect to a Jewish person praying for you...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


.. great vid .. enjoyable .. to the last.. Bless You and Yours... God Bless Us all ..

reply to post by SaturnFX


... All Religions lead to the One True God ..to deny one .Religion is to deny all .. that is a sin..

reply to post by Robert Boone


Your words are very ridiculous.

The Quran does not order the murder of anyone let alone Christians.

It does [in the context of Muslim wars directly address the tactical situation of that time 1400 years ago].

Muslims all over the world have lived with Christians and Jews in peace for centuries [such as Moorish Spain and parts of Turkey and Lebanon without murdering them for their religion.

The Quran actually says all people no matter what they believe will be judged according to their deeds

Words from the Quran

“There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256),

Our human brains have a space, a spot designated for belief that must be fulfilled at our own entertainment, some people have free of will, others have to follow their assignes roles as those of their fellow people. Religion is an important piece of human co-existence, because it stablishes the rules for societies to follow and depending upon the one each one selects, habits will change accordingly satisfiying this side of the brain. Some choose Christianity, others atheisism or Satanism it all depends on their inclinations and their feeling at the moment they conceived those thoughts and whether they needed extra help or no knowing that they may change minds at any time regarless or previous mental convictions for believing what is now unworthy of a second of a breath. We as humans are not atached to our beliefs or thoughts and have the capacity to change our minds at any moment, considering the risks placed in mind and will then send messages to the rest of the body to think and act differently towards a particular aspect of human existence. Most of this thougth process is created by our bias and our up bringing, as well as the different paths we have encounter as we go about our lives, seing only what we select to see, and disregarding what we feel is not worth of value at all. I have a religion, but I researched for evidence first. Religion is a fundamental focus of humans and has the effect of actually gaining respect in large societies and in different worlds.

Originally posted by Vonour
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

... All Religions lead to the One True God ..to deny one .Religion is to deny all .. that is a sin..

I don't deny a god, that would be silly...denial means stating no such thing, and that is something a person can never prove.

I simply deny religion in all its forms that try to put rules, understanding, and a neat candy coated box around it.

to me, religion is a sin.

Great thread Jaxxy! S&F of course.

I usually stay clear of this subject matter but I thought

to take a peek anyway

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Christianity isnt Christianity.

Christianity as Christianity is Paganism; Mere rituals and beliefs. Fundamentalists are Pagans.

Christianity is Judaism Fulfilled as Christ was a Jewish Teacher.

A True Christian practices the Sacrifice of the Heart as Love, and does not believe in anything.

This thread is an abomination! Certainly the OP knows full well that Jesus Harold Christ hated most people. He despised the poor and wouldn't spit on a homosexual if he or she was on fire. It is simply left wing liberal propaganda that leads people to believe this FARCE that Christ was some sort of "Christlike" being.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


As usual another fundamental christian bashing thread.
YAWN,stretch,drink a sip of coffee and moving on...

Fundamental Christianity is becoming a powerful political party in itself. It's amazing to me that many people don't see it.

In Islamic countries, they have Sharia Law. How do you think that happened? Just the same way that Fundamental Christianity is morphing into political stance and eventually, a Sacred Law based on a fundamental interpretation of Christianity.

Great post, Jax!

any type of organized religion should be considered bad for society as general, since it doesnt help the evolution of the last

if you are a follower, you will never be able to contribute to our society, since, well, you are a follower, and, followers dont think, they follow

we need more people that can use their brain, instead of using a book

Wow, I wished we had leaders more like the President in that show! I have actually been thinking about this subject lately. I believe Jesus, if he existed, was teaching his followers his belief in God. Its obvious that Jesus's view was very different from Moses's. Yet, he followed many of the traditions of the Jews to reform religion. Just think how barbaric their society must have been with people being stoned and executed by hypocritical clergy under Mosaic Law.

Personally, I thing the New Testament should have never been tied to the books of the Old Testament. Perhaps, this was a conspiracy at the time to tie the two together to convert Jews.

In 1 Corinthians 9:20, Paul says "To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law."

I will propose broadly-contexted 'functionalism' as a pespective.

1/ The functional intellectual individual knows, that ultimate 'truth' is an aim not yet achieved.

2/ The functional 'emotional' individual 'feels' that love is inclusive, hate exclusive.

3/ The functional practical individual experiences, that violent conflict is a waste of time, energy and resources.

It's been suggested, that some individuals are born with black/white mindsets and/or into dogmatic social backgrounds. My own opinion is, that when such individuals manifest as invasive or openly violent, they can best be described as sociopaths.

Fortunately they only (at worst) represent a few percent of mankind, but they make social noise out of proportion to their numbers. Furthermore there is an internal feed-back mechanism at play in such individuals. Opposition, even reasonable such, only seem to re-inforce their ego-based extremism.

My position isn't a fake relativism (Hitler, Stalin and the inquisition are abominations from a functional perspective), neither cosmetic tolerance (there ARE lies within lies within lies), but one of considering the invasive or violent extremist as maybe the biggest threat to this planet. And this attitude of mine can be had ACROSS white, black, brown, violet or whatever.

It's up to each ideology to clean their own fringe from these ego-based seducers of mankind, instead of passively hiding behind their respective 'führers'. There may be a higher unity ideal for mankind than 'Mein führer ist grosser als dein führer' (excuse my lousy german):

"My leader is greater than your leader".

I have perfectly decent fundamentalist christians in my family and as neighbours; and in spite of my own attitude, that christianity is nonsense and their attitude, that I'm a pitiful ignoramus concerning 'spiritual reality', we can shoot it out inside functional frames. The simple idea of a common good, instead of 'it's for your own good' invasion.

There are effective methods out of mankind's small greed and mental laziness.

reply to post by mamabeth


As usual, you didn't bother to actually read the OP, thus you had nothing to contribute to the discussion... Now move along...

well ill atleast say that Christianity is rooted in gnosticism; in an antinomianism, and the christian leaders of today are slowly bringing their masses around to this understanding. Pius XII, who was obsessed with the virgin mary was the one who declared the 'assumption of mary' in 1952 (this of course coincides with the later liberalism of the 60's. I find it highly coincidental that the same year man went to the moon was the same year of the ultra liberal paradigm shifting woodstock festival) which when properly understood (Jung touches on this in his 'answer to Job") signifies the ascension of the feminine prinicple, the 4th leg which unites the 'masculine' trinity to create a quaternity. And given this gnostic understanding of the quaternity is rooted in a belief in the healing powers of the feminine, of the raw sexual, carnal powers of the animal soul, it is absolutely opposed to the traditional Jewish understanding of reality.

So in truth, if you reject this christian gnostic view of reality, than you have a Jewish morality. Id suggest those who feel this way should take some time learn some Judaism - kabbalah, chassidut.

Re Dontreally

with due respect. If 'christianity' is rooted in gnosticism, it must be invisible roots. From the beginning of the Jesus movement, some of his disciples were at odds with some of the gnostics (gnosticism not being a completely homogenous system).

Paulus, when he hijacked the Jesus movement, wasn't exactly fond of gnostics either, and increasing tension between paulinism and gnosticism eventually culminated in the albigensian crusade, where most gnostic were exterminated.

So the question is, which christians are rooted in which gnosticism? Antinomianism isn't a very good indication, as it can mean different things in different contexts.

The all-male pauline trinity is most likely a construct. All the existing Eurasian trinities before paulinism included a female part, which the paulines changed to male somewhat after they re-introduced a trinity.

Not trying to cut you down. I really am interested.

PS This direction is a bit off-topic, so I will not pursue it to much.