Yes, America's been supporting Israel since forever, but that's politics, Russia's been helping the Arab countries as part of the cold war, how
does this mean that Israel has manipulated America? America also gave weapons to the Afghans, which got into the hands of terrorists, does this mean
America destroyed America?
Also you want to tell me that the support of Israel is destroying America because of 911? A bunch of psychopaths decided they want to murder 3000
Americans for their government's opinions, or actions, and you're guilty for it? We're guilty for it? Or are you saying that their actions are
I can understand why certain people would hate you for helping us, but that's not what's destroying America, is this why your economy collapsed? Why
there aren't any jobs? Why there's an oil spill?
Your support of Israel has nothing to do with any of these things.
Don't you get it? It serves your interests, it is not destroying you, it is benefiting you. Israel is such a big point of interest because it's the
only country in the middle east that the US can count on.
In any way it is far from destroying your nation, don't you think? It's creating political turmoil, yes, but what does that have to do with
The only thing I can think of are the wars George Bush started, one was based on a lie, one was revenge for 911, both were started for political
reasons- resources, regional stability, a foothold in the region, etc, the same reasons the Vietnam war started, and Korean war started, etc...
The US did not do this as a favor for Israel, it had its own reasons.
But don't get me wrong, these wars were also in Israel's best interests, and I'm sure there was political pressure on our side, but America made
its decision based on what it had to gain from going to war.
Honestly though, all that aside, there's no way the reason you're still at war with Afghanistan is that Israel is telling Obama "we need you to
stay in Afghanistan", or that the reason you started the war in Iraq is Israel said to Bush "Invade Iraq please"... Very hard to believe.
I agree that the US and Israel are part of the same empire, and I agree that the US is protecting Israel's interests in the UN, sometimes for good
reasons, I mean for god's sake, one veto is put on condemning Israel for the killing of Ahmed Yasin, a well known terrorist, so what can I say? If
you think that there's ever been a UN decision that said- "Israel and Palestine must stop fighting" that the US vetoed, then, yes, this is all your
fault, otherwise I don't think you're to be blamed for this conflict, and I don't think vetos in the UN are effecting anyone's opinions on
The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas targets civilians, and Israel targets only Hamas (or at least does its best to try and do
The day Hamas starts wearing uniform, like the Israeli soldiers do, and stops fighting out of heavily populated neighborhoods, and instead go out and
fight in unpopulated areas, is the day that innocent civilians would stop dying.
That's why they're terrorists, and we're not.
As for the rest of the stuff- You're going completely off topic, don't you think?
The second intifada- What is your point? What are you trying to say? The peace talks failed and the Palestinians started rioting..
On the Israeli side, suicide bombings have forced the population to live in constant fear with strict security measures. The economy has also
suffered, especially in 2002, when the Gross National Product loss was estimated at 3.5%.
Palestinians peacefully protested for a long time- What are you talking about? When? How? Where? Enough with this touchy feely bull#, I don't buy it,
and let's say they did (because I know you won't bother finding any proof, you're just going to blindly believe it), this conflict has been going
on since 1987. So that's 20 years of no violence, during which please tell me what kind of violence was used against these defenseless people? And 23
years of nonstop violence, this doesn't really make them saints.. At the very least we're equally guilty for the violence.
Settlements are part of the reason the second intifada started- Well, DUH...
Oslo was followed by expansion of settlements- What can I say? A mistake. I want the settlements gone, as do many other Israelis, there is not future
for the settlements, even the Israeli government knows that.
You do realize that the peace talks right now are talking about something like 1-2% of the west bank remaining in Israeli hands, and the rest is
evacuated? That leaves almost nothing, so, yeah, they know they're approving expansions that they're going to destroy one day (Probably one day
There was a growth in settlers after the Oslo accords- Uh huh, and? I agree, it's illegal, what's your point? And it's been expending at the same
pace since the Oslo accords and until this day, it hasn't accelerated.
The Gaza strip is not the best place in the world- Correct.
Gaza has settlers in it- NO IT DOESN'T!
Again, this was way out of topic, and I'm only replying so it doesn't look like I'm blowing you off..
By the way, you arguments are thin, and you logic is weak. There is evil on both sides, can't blame it on one side, especially not these days, when
we're out of Gaza, and are in (almost) peace with the west bank.. The settlements have no future, the Israeli government knows this..
Which leads me to your question- Why does Netanyahu wants to remove the freeze on expansion?
I have absolutely no frikkin' idea. What's the rush? Why not wait a few more months? WHY NOT MAKE PEACE? The settlements will wait, damnit...
My guess? He's a politician, wants to be elected and reelected, and settlers are all right wing, he needs their votes..
I don't think he's that stupid.. He knows what everyone in this government knows- The settlements will be gone in the next few years, and the more
we wait the less territory we get.. So yeah, he wants peace, he just wants to be prime minister when it happens....
That is pretty obvious, the US supported Zionists even before the creation of Israel, the main offices of Zionism was in the US, and from my
point of view, Zionists were terrorists used to spark the European civil war, to make it easier for the US to conquer, and it did.
The U.S supported Zionism? How exactly? Please elaborate. Because from what I know they didn't start supporting Zionism until a certain president,
which I can't remember his name, got elected.. And as for the old Zionists, they were aided mainly by Britain.
So please, tell me more.
Zionists were terrorists used to spark the European civil war, to make it easier for the US to conquer? Huh???
What civil war? Conquer what? What the hell are you talking about?
And again you go off topic- Israel doesn't like Iran because it calls for the destruction of Israel.
What about Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? Libya? There are so many other counties in this region that are SO much stronger the Iran, non of them have trouble
with Israel, most are Muslim.
And Iran is not free, and is not without puppets, the majority is ruled by a minority, it is ruled by religion, and the people are trying to take the
government down, with not much success.
Israel is not fighting the Lebanese army, Israel is fighting a terrorist organization called the Hezballa, so your point is moot.
Again I must point out that your arguments are thin and your logic is weak.
What's worse is you haven't addressed any of my claims from the previous post, that I made to counter your silly video.
Instead of replying to my claims you just kept on spewing IfAmericansKnew.org material at me, instead of referring to my claims that this video is
misleading, uses scare tactics, and presents opinions as facts (Claims like "America is going to be destroyed because we support Israel"). Nothing
in the video was backed up by anything, and the facts that you've presented have nothing to do with the "facts that were presented in the video.
And half of your reply is so far off topic that it's almost ended up in a different forum..
You know, a man once said to me-
If we agree with the claims, you job is to prove to us that is bogus, by taking the claims in to account first.
So once again, do a rebuttal in regards to the... claims. And please don't divert the thread....
You might want to take up on your own advice.