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Obama: "Mexicans" Were Here "Long Before America Was Even An Idea"

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posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 


He was probably using "shared" in the sense that the modern country of Italy shared the same land as ancient Rome shared the same land as previous regimes/empires/nations.

Obviously Italy never interacted with previous entities that SHARED that land. Obviously that land has been fought on/about/over through the ages.




posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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i voted for Obama and will again, but i disagree with him on this. the indians were here and in mexico long before americans and mexicans. this is a false arguement, the type of arguement widely used in the GOP and the tea party. he is playing up to the rather simple-minded section of the democratic party. frankly, if we followed mexicos own immigration policy, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
besides, this is not about "immigration", it is about "illegal border crossing"...and i wish these proper terms were used when it is discussed.


edit on 22-9-2010 by jimmyx because: syntax, and sentence construction



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by JakiusFogg
 


Sorry, I tend to ruffle people to see how they react upon first encounter. Congrats...you pass.

I really have no problem accepting the sins of my country and it's corrupt leaders, including the puppets Obama and Bush and Clinton, etc, etc. I live up north in Indiana and while we have a substantial Hispanic population, we don't have the meyhem as they are suffering in the bordrer states. I know and appreciate the good work ethic of the Mexicans I encounter here.

Obama's statements in the last few weeks are of a desperate person who sees his influence on an irreversable decline, like the moron Bush, who preceeded him. I am but an observer, since I lack the clout to change much. But it does create grand theatre, doesn't it?



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by BlueLightRain
No, we don't have to bend over backwards and give non-citizens the same rights, but the same oppertunities. Become a citizen, get a job and education, pay taxes and get your little slice of pie.


That is ALL we've ever said. That has ALWAYS been the message and the policy. That is precisely what he needs to say to convey the message that he is not about giving amnesty and free reign to illegals. Instead, he always takes the stand of putting the US up as the "bad guy". He does that so frequently when addressing other countries, I have a real difficult time believing he is being misconstrued. He has delivered a similar message no less than 10 times that I can recall (America BAD, everybody else GOOD message).

If he would come right out and say, "Come to America, legally, get assimilated, speak English, go to school and pay tuition and enjoy the American way of life", I would be behind him 100%, but that has NEVER been his message.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by centurion1211
 


and the native americans were here long before all of us but i dont hear him saying jacks squat about them.

i guess its the simple fact the hispanic vote is the largest minority in the country right now.

and thats clearly what hes going after.


statements like this lead me to believe that maybe obama is a racists the only voters that dont matter to him are the white, republican or teaparty votes.


You're too lazy to read anything beyond the poster's title. The whole quote, which the OP includes, says native americans - "Indians"

In addition, I think he was referring to the original tribes of the area where Mexico now sits.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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are you stupid? it was thier land before america was founded, before the english before the french before the spanish, it was thier land. Really nobody owns land, we just claim to own it, did you make the land? no thus you do not own it.

What made this land was science at work, nature made it thus nature owns it, we cannot claim something we dont own, so we share. Thats how it worked before, and to say thats a lie shows your ingorance, in not only history and human exploration, but to that merely trying ot indicate that Obama is a threat to america (i am just assuming you think obama is bad)

Change is a good thing in my opinion. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and execpting differnt results. He's trying to change america for the better, better education better morals, better technogly.

If you have any hope for the survival of our race trust it in him



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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In the United States that I dream of, and the one ensconced in "The Document" there isn't a distinction between actual citizens and foreigners, it simply states things like "the right of the people" with the limitations of being a natural-born citizen for the high office. Both of these ideas have fallen out of favor, apparently.

Truth is that there should be no border at all, and everyone, Mexican or otherwise, should be free to come across and settle affairs as they wish. That being said, there shouldn't be the assurance of comfort and safety paid for by taxpayers for anyone, American or otherwise. You should be limited only by yourself and what you can do. In other words, you should be free to come here and do as you like, but if you don't have a plan, then you'll probably starve to death or be taken by the elements before you have a chance to. Maybe the church or people of your kind will help you, but again, chances are you'll be fertilizer if you don't have a plan.

In short, the United States that I feel should exist should be open to all who wish to do business here, and though in it you'll face sure adversity, you will be free and unencumbered by excessive regulation or taxation to do as you damn well please, and that's a hell of a lot better than you can expect if you emigrate to Venezuela or Iran or Britain or any other backward-assed relic of a political ideology pre-1776.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


There is not a SINGLE POINT in your entire response that relates to my post in any logical way. You have not refuted any of the point I brought up that challenge your previous assertions. You make untrue statements that arent supported by facts. You then ignore all references, sourced evidence offered to refute your made-up talking points and outright lies by making NEW outrageously untrue statements.

This is your tactic to avoid a constructive debate.

In FACT, this is the tactic of the entire 'Right" at the moment; To take the debate to a place of absurdity where no one has the opportunity to debate an issue with FACTS that can be agreed upon. So we don't debate the issue based on reality, we are kept constantly arguing nonsensical talking points about the 'socialist' nature of a President who is very much not a socialist, which keeps us from discussing the similarity between Democrat an Republican policy.

The end of this is to support the idea that Republicans are vastly different than Democrats, when, if the debate was based around facts, everyone would be forced to agree that the similarities between the two party are greater than the differences.

By playing your game i only add to the dumbing down and mis-direction of the debate.

No thanks. I prefer to deny ignorance, not fertilize it.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


oh you would be surprised. They have stated from the hopi tribe that they have been told that America will come and America will go. They even have prophecies on this.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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The Spanish from Spain got here first and conquered first. When people in the British colonies began having the idea of independency as Franklin and Jefferson and others called it, Mexico was not Mexico but a part of Spain.

That hardly gives any of them the claims they are making on US territory today. They lost Texas in a war for independence and the USA bought the rest from one of the Emperors of Mexico and Spain when he needed money and after our troops were just 20 miles outside of Mexico city and could have easily taken it all for free.

Many, but certainly not all Mexicans are native Americans, mostly Mayans since the Spanish pretty much wiped out the Aztecs and related tribes. The rest are descendents of the European Spanish Conquistadores who ruled all of New Spain with an iron fist and put in place the same social and economic structures and corruptions as they had in the old country which is exactly why Mexico is as bad as it is today.

I can understand the dirt poor millions running across our borders to make some money. What I can't understand is their arrogance and demands. They come here illegally and then milk our system of generous welfare to the max, take advantage of our laws that say anyone that shows up in an emergency room has to be treated even if they cannot pay, steal an education from the taxpayers, turn whole communities into filthy barrios, and resent any suggestion that they just might be a little more welcome if they would at least try to learn English and not have so many anchor babies whose benefits they live off of because they send back remittances to all their relatives so they can pay the trafficers to run them here as well.

They come here and act like we all "owe" them something which they really have no rights to at all.

Obama might have some credibility on the issue if he wasn't so eager for the rest of us to pay for every thing he wants to give away to illegals, including the vote.

He might also have some credibility if he started telling school districts and medical facilities to start sending the tuition bills and medical bills to the President of Mexico.

If his government was providing an education to all the kids there, they wouldn't have to come here.

The USA has been Mexico's safety valve for all its overpopulation and its unemployed for far too many decades and migrant farm workers no longer migrate back.

Obama does not want our immigration department to enforce the laws nor does he seem to want to do anything about completing the fencing along our 2000 mile border or dynamiting the tunnels under our borders.

Has he not violated his oath of office in that?

And, oh yes, ask the Seneca tribes of New York how they feel about Obama since he banned shipping cigarettes from their territory. So much for his pledge to help the tribes economically. Many lost their jobs.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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I think the OP is partly correct.
I read something a while back, before Mr. Obama was elected, and had totally forgotten it until reading this thread.
As I stated in an earlier post (page 4) Mr. Obama leans to the progressive left. He may have been pandering for votes but what if it goes deeper than that?
If the government wanted to they could close the border in as little as two weeks and in little over a year they could have the majority of illegals out of the country. So why not?
Answer- Transnational Progressivism or post-democrats.
Many of the same lawyers who advocate transnational legal concepts are active in U. S. immigration law. Louis Henkin, one of the most prominent scholars of international law, calls for largely eliminating "the difference between a citizen and a non-citizen permanent resident." Columbia University international law professor Stephen Legomsky argues that dual nationals holding influential positions in the U. S. should not be required to give "greater weight to U. S. interests, in the event of a conflict" between the U. S. and the other country in which the American citizen is also a dual national. Two leading law professors (Peter Spiro from Hofstra and Peter Schuck from Yale) complain that immigrants seeking American citizenship are required to "renounce all allegiance" to their old nations." Spiro and Schuck even reject the concept of the hyphenated American and endorse what they call the "ampersand" citizen. Thus, instead of traditional "Mexican-Americans" who are loyal citizens but proud of their ethnic roots, they prefer postnational citizens, who are both "Mexican & American," who retain "loyalties" to their "original homeland" and vote in both countries. University professor Robert Bach authored a major Ford Foundation report on new and "established residents" (the word "citizen" was assiduously avoided) that advocated the "maintenance" of ethnic immigrant identities and attacked assimilation as the "problem in America." Bach later became deputy director for policy at the INS in the Clinton administration.
Source- www.denbeste.nu...
I suggest that you read the entire article. It is very interesting/informative and may shine some more light on what is happening with illegals.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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If it is ok with the OP I might start a separate thread using his source. Instead of focusing on the Geography it would focus on Transnational Progressivism.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


"largest minority" is somehow funny. It shouldn't be a problem then I guess.

And what he said is probably correct if you consider that the Mexicans from today for most part came from the Olmecs which for what I know are much older than any vague idea of United States as country indeed. That's most likely the idea he was trying to convey if people stop interpreting things so literally.

Anyways...



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by centurion1211
 


and the native americans were here long before all of us but i dont hear him saying jacks squat about them.

i guess its the simple fact the hispanic vote is the largest minority in the country right now.

and thats clearly what hes going after.


statements like this lead me to believe that maybe obama is a racists the only voters that dont matter to him are the white, republican or teaparty votes.


You're too lazy to read anything beyond the poster's title. The whole quote, which the OP includes, says native americans - "Indians"

In addition, I think he was referring to the original tribes of the area where Mexico now sits.


Ha!

Not to mention the little difference between the two. Most Americans nowadays were just born in America but don't carry a single trace of native Indian blood in them. In Mexico most Mexicans are in fact direct descendent's of the original civilizations of the region and just speak Spanish due to the colonization.

And remember tribes were a thing of the Indians in the North (native Americans), in Mexico people were already living in huge cities for that time long before any European set foot in here.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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Here's my take! No matter if the aliens, grey's, reptilians, Asians, African's, etc., occupied a certain region of our country; it doesn't mean JACK SHIAT! What matters is what they have to offer!

We all know where they're sending they're money from our Country! Do they pay taxes? NO! It infuriates me to no end that as an Arizonian, I see what is happening on the frontline. What I mean by that is, look at Brewer! She did a huge thing for our Homeland, and the majority of the nation is shouting..."OMG WTF!?".

Seriously. Take a break and see how our nation was formed, and how our Ancestors gained their citizenship. It certainly wasn't by Amnesty!

My ancestors came here by boat over a hundred years ago and worked their @sses off to make things happen. And they paid taxes!



I have nothing to say on this matter other then...get your flippin' Green Card, and speak English, and pay TAXES as the majority of us do, and allow yourself a chance to be given the respect that want!!!!!!!!!!

-OE


edit on 23-9-2010 by overextended1 because: forgot the tax equation!



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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I haven't read this entire thread, nor do I plan to, but in case anyone has missed these points, I wish to get them out there.

A massive amount of Mexicans/hispanics are largely Spanish blood. They are by no means entirely native. Though there are tribes in Central America that ARE rightfuly native.

Hispanics are generally considered white under lawful concern.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by hippomchippo
But he clearly isn't.
Neither did Bush.
Neither did Clinton.
Why is it you can't talk about the past when the past shows a pattern that is being followed?
Why is it the hate of the American people just bounces from one president to another and never gets to the root of the problem?


Thank you. Someone is actually taking notice that they're all marionettes. Why get mad a puppet, shouldn't you worry more about the man pulling it's strings? He's the same man whose been pulling the wool over your eyes for a very long time now.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by overextended1
We all know where they're sending they're money from our Country! Do they pay taxes? NO! It infuriates me to no end that as an Arizonian, I see what is happening on the frontline. What I mean by that is, look at Brewer! She did a huge thing for our Homeland, and the majority of the nation is shouting..."OMG WTF!?".

Seriously. Take a break and see how our nation was formed, and how our Ancestors gained their citizenship. It certainly wasn't by Amnesty!

My ancestors came here by boat over a hundred years ago and worked their @sses off to make things happen. And they paid taxes!

I have nothing to say on this matter other then...get your flippin' Green Card, and speak English, and pay TAXES as the majority of us do, and allow yourself a chance to be given the respect that want!!!!!!!!!!

-OE


Here's a question I pose to you: What if we made them all legal citizens? What if we gave every illegal in America (Mexican, Canadian, Chinese, Swedish, whatever nationality) 30 days in which they could become legal citizens? Never mind the fact it takes 2+ years for the average person to immigrate, forget all the English classes and learning the constitution, our laws, or the pledge of allegiance. Would that fix the problem? No. Its not just a fiscal issue, at least not for me.

I've worked my fair share of crappy jobs in the past 2 years and I've worked with many immigrants some that had been here 15 years or more and could barely speak a sentence of English. Many didn't know who that dude on our $1 note is or who we fought during WWII, or why we fought WWII, or why we fought for our Independence, or even who we fought for our independence. I honestly have no qualms with people wanting to move here to better themselves, I don't care where they're from or the color of the skin, the reason our immigration process takes years is to make sure these people want to be Americans. Yes, I think some (not all or even a majority) of the immigration debate is based in racism, some, but the vast majority I believe, are tired of seeing our country taken for granted. I used to live in a very diverse neighborhood, due to the Catholic charities who would bring over thousands of refugees and immigrants every year. As a kid, I hated seeing them on the school bus bashing our country, our home. These weren't spirited political discussions or debates, it was trash talking our country, which they have every right to do, even if the idea is ridiculous; you move from your war torn, dictator ruled, politically corrupt, impoverished nation to a country were you're given the luxury of school, transportation, CD / MP3 players, computers, technology etc. and you're going to say your nation was better? OR that you're not an American? Or that you hate this country because so many white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever race of people live here? See that's the beauty of America, even these backward knuckleheads can speak their minds and live a decent life.

Here's a microcosm of the whole problem, in my state, we had voted to shut down our drivers licensing test from being conducted in any language other than English, it was costing us to much money. The ACLU and various other special interest groups complained and protested enough that it was over turned. So now our drivers license test is being conducted in 19 different languages. All of our signs are written in English, so why should someone who can't read "Divided Highway" or "Fallen Rock Zone" be allowed to drive? The answer is, they shouldn't. The funny thing about the budget cut, we were going to use one fourth of the budget we had been using for translators on English teachers and classes. That's right, we were going to teach them the whole language, for free. Seems like a better solution to the problem, don't you think? Its like the whole immigration debate, you have people on one side screaming they have the right to be here they're people, too and on the other side they're tired of seeing our tax money, health care, local services, and our jobs go to an illegal immigrant. Seems to me that if you were to meet in the middle and fix the problem the immigration debate would end.

Why not setup English classes instead of having translators? Go to take your driving test... you better hope you know English. Go to get a job... you better hope you have a social security or tax ID number. If someone is caught employing someone without either fine or punish them. Setting up unconstitutional road blocks, passing unconstitutional laws that violate your 4th amendment rights, building a giant wall, or resorting to racism will not fix the problem, nor will giving them all of our social services, allowing them to keep abusing our system, not taxing their labor, etc.

Just a small addition, New Mexico is the only constitutionally bi-lingual state in the union. Their state constitution allows for people to speak either Spanish or English, and has since it became a state.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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your taking it out of context.

he wasnt just saying. AMERICA. and MEXICO.

he named many others.


there seems to be this inherint nature. to "hate the new guy" more than the last. "until he's done something for me" that is worthy of respect and love.


what does that say about a corrupt nation

im actually really sick of hearing about america.
your country doesnt even exist anymore so stfu already.

and yet the president is overly confident in the media.

AMERICA is leading the way in this.
were paving the way in that.'

yeah right.

get off your YANKY DOODLE HIGH HORSE.
and take that feather out ya "HIGH HAT" and put it in your arse.

no offense to people who happen to live in "the north American union" who are just born there. nothing more.

"self important" + "pride in country. then turn around hate the system goers.....

its just those self important c**ts that think they need to parade AMERICA this and that like its gay pride.

in no way am i saying "Americans" are gay.

its more.
im so sick and tired of hearing people "DECLARE" im gay. or . hey theres a movement of gays
gay this. gay that
its ok to be gay . its gay. gay gay gay gay

# up already. im sick of hearing about it. nothing new



edit on 23/9/2010 by Ashyr because: (no reason given)




edit on 23/9/2010 by Ashyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by centurion1211
Sorry, the left (including you?) crucified Bush any time he slipped up, so obama gets no pass for "semantics", or any other mistake.


Also, do you REALLY believe that Obama thinks there are 57 states? Or are you just trying to bait? Seriously, as a seantor, I doubt Obama ever had the floor and then said "I will yield the remainder of my time to the distinguished gentleman from Imaginationland"....but, hey, it's funny and it baits, so let's keep saying until we believe it to be true


There are only 50 states, but there are also 7 territories. Perhaps he intended to say 57 states and territories but forgot the "territories".
Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, Wake Island, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, The Virgin Islands, and DC.




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