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Senate repeal of ban on gays in military falters

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posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Senate repeal of ban on gays in military falters


news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON – A Senate bill to repeal the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy appeared headed for defeat Tuesday, a major setback for gay groups that saw the vote as their last chance this year to overturn the 17-year-old ban.

Advocates had been optimistic that the Democratic-controlled White House and Congress could overcome objections to repeal of the law barring gays from serving openly in the military. The move is unpopular among Republicans, military officers and social conservatives.

But in the end, Senate Democrats were expected to fall at least one vote short of the 6
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
politipage.com




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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When the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy came into effect in the early 1990s, the homosexual community seen this as a victory over ther military because the military didn't want it.

Now, they want to openly coddle each other publicly. What was seen as a victory then for homosexuals is now considered fights infringement. The homosexuals have turned the word "gay" into a filthy word. They've taken the spectrum of white light (rainbow) and turned into a dirty symbol.

Heterosexuals aren't telling homosexuals they can't continue to engage in their vile acts with each other. We're just saying to keep their vile acts to each other and out of normal peoples view.

If anyone thinks that there is nothing wrong with homosexualism and the parades that flaunt their behavior, then they to must keep their vile comments to themselves. The reason that heterosexuals don't like homosexuals is the homosexuals arrogance and flagrant disrespect for decency.

Check out the freakshow in additional links.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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i think you are correct.

it would be a detriment and create lots of problems.


its more trouble than its worth, in my opinion.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
If anyone thinks that there is nothing wrong with homosexualism and the parades that flaunt their behavior, then they to must keep their vile comments to themselves.


On principle I will point this gem out to you...I don't think you can tell people what they must comment on or not in a public forum first off

Second off, the dont ask/tell thing was specifically designed for in service on the clock dealings...the compromise between clinton and the opposition. It was said that off the clock, the person in question could do or be whatever they wanted to be. be it attend rallys, or live a flamboyant lifestyle...only when actually preforming the duties as a soldier should they refrain from discussing their preference one way or the other.

This was actually supposed to be a double edged sword so that straights also didn't discuss their preference while on the clock (good luck with that one).

As far as parades and such...meh, I don't go to them...but I would gladly go watch a parade of disgusting fleshy filth proudly..I just call that Mardi Gras though


Ever been to south america during Carnival?

if you disagree with anything I said, you must keep your vile perspective to yourself. (lets see if that works as well for me as it did for you)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Intelearthling
 


Obviously you don't know anyone who is homosexual. I have had many homosexual friends, coworkers, and even enemies over the years. Very very few of them were flaming. Most were rather ordinary and you wouldn't know that they were gay if they hadn't told ya.

As for the military, open displays of affection whilest in an official position (in formation, at work, etc) are frowned upon strongly anyway and often subject to disciplinary actions, so I don't see how this is at all a problem.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by Intelearthling
 


Obviously you don't know anyone who is homosexual.


To tell you the truth, I don't have any friends who are homosexual. I don't know anyone but in the school I attend, they have these questionable characters and I do keep my distance and will not try and strike up any conservsations with anyone I find questionable.

I keep to myself with the exception of a few friens and family. I really keep my guard up to everyone else, heterosexual or not, because I have a distrust of many people. Why? It's because of my observations for the past several decades of my life. The entertainment industry, pretentious people, and arrogant Yankees are some of the people I hate. I just don't like homosexuals.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
I keep to myself with the exception of a few friens and family. I really keep my guard up to everyone else, heterosexual or not, because I have a distrust of many people.


Go figure, you don't have many friends. I can't understand why.


Not that I got the sarcasm off my chest, let's get back on topic. Gay men and women pay taxes, love, need, hurt, all the things that you feel and, like so many, a lot of them are patriots. They want to serve their country and possible die for it. But because the choose to be drawn to the same sex rather than your narrow-minded thinking of what's "normal" they shouldn't be allowed to serve? I'm straight and even I think that this is a situation of "thou dost protest too much." Maybe you should seek counseling to deal with these feelings and paranoia.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Intelearthling
 


The Military doesn't want it? My husband has been in the military for almost 10 years. He supports the repeal of DADT, most of the other soldiers I know feel the same way. It's stupid because everyone knows who is gay. The Lesbians are obvious, the gay men are obvious. It's not because they are "flaming". You just know who is and isn't. No one cares. When you go to war you aren't worrying about who the guy next to you might want to bang.

Of course, next time the Democrats want to actually address the damn issue they should try not attaching a bunch of other BS to it and just have a vote on the one issue.

I would have liked that pay raise involved in this mess too. Maybe they'll get that through separately.




edit on 21-9-2010 by antonia because: RAWR



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Oddly enough, the only people I know who use the word "vile" are gay. Like flaming gay. Granted, it is pretty hard to pull off a butch persona while snarling "vile".
I wonder if using the word "vile" might cause others within a military unit to perceive one as gay. That could make someone very uncomfortable. Perhaps we should ban the use of "vile" in the interest of unit cohesion.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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What a doosy... though I can honestly say that I am relieved.

***Disclaimer: Currently serving***

I have mixed feelings on this, first and foremost because I believe that all men are created equal and loved equally by God. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, however, it is not my right to infringe on someone elses privacy or their right to do as they wish.

That being said, this was a good thing. How many of you have been hit with a sexual harrassment charge? How bout a sexual discrimination charge?

Here is the crux of the problem: PEOPLE ARE THIN SKINNED. Doesnt seem to be much of a problem but here in the military, its a serious issue. When I give an order, I expect it to be followed to the letter. Not any other way. If I have 3 FNG's and I tell one of them to clean the head, its cuz its his turn or he failed or fell short in another area in that day or so. Being thin skinned though means that they think you are picking on them.

I can see it now... I have 5 guys
Straight E-3
Straight E-5
Straight E-2
Gay E-1
Straight E-3

If I tell the lowest ranking guy/gal (who just happens to be gay), "Go field day the head," the last thing I would want to hear is some smart ass remark about how s/he is being picked on because of their sexual orientation. While this may seem minor to you guys, a PAGE13 is no fun for anyone, especially when there is an accusation of harrassment. Even when UNSUBSTANTIATED. These things ruin careers, and when you are in a job field that specializes in killing people this kind of situation even if just a possibility will cause people to second guess themselves at times that may be a life/death situation.

So yes, I do believe that morale of the company will be affected negatively. Yes I do believe that this should never be allowed to happen, at least now they can serve, but since no one is "allowed to be gay," there can be no discrimination based on that fact that would encourage supervisors to be unfair due to fear of being accused of this.

Flame on, call me a homophobe or whatever. In this line of work however I feel justified. It is sad to say that I believe this the right way to go, but I believe its the only real option we have.

P.S. I know of a few guys that have tried to get out using the DaDT loophole. Very straight guys that just wanted out, and they werent let go even though they "admitted to being gay." So please dont tell me how many people were kicked out due to this policy and how its so horrible. If I were a betting man, I would put a paycheck on the line to say that more of the people kicked out with that policy were straight rather than gay. I would also venture a guess to say that most of them were s***bags. Take that as you will.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by Intelearthling
 

As for the military, open displays of affection whilest in an official position (in formation, at work, etc) are frowned upon strongly anyway and often subject to disciplinary actions, so I don't see how this is at all a problem.


There shouldn't be any relationships in the military. Other than friendship. So whether or not someone is gay should not affect anything. It shouldn't make any difference. Especially if other NATO countries are allowing it, openly, it means the soldiers are already serving with gay people, who are allowed to mention it, if it comes into conversation for whatever reason. Unless they're American.
True, the article below is Canadian, but shouldn't the rules be at least similar?
www.theglobeandmail.com...
Not just frowned on - strictly forbidden. The above article is about a man and a woman. It seems very unlikely a man and another man, or a woman and another woman would even bother thinking about getting together while serving.


Military rules strictly forbid any kind of intimacy on deployments including relationships of an emotional, romantic or sexual nature.


The USA seems to be one of the few countries that still doesn't allow gay people to serve openly.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Y2KJMan
 


Your entire scenerio can also be replicated using race and was used to fight integration of the military. It rings false now as it did then. I always found don't ask don't tell to be stupid. Its not like we did not know who was gay anyway and it sure as hell never made a difference. And yet we had to play some pathetic game of pretending we did not know who was gay.

As for the OP I think he should explore why he has these strong feelings about gays. It seems very often that people who feel that strongly are struggling with feelings of their own that they feel are wrong.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


See thats where you got your thinking wrong.

A soldier is never off the clock, they are soldiers 24/7. They must follow all rules all the time, not just while they are "on the clock".


This is why I don't think civilians have a right to tell the Military how to do anything. They don't even know how the damn thing operates, but they want to put their two cents in anyways.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Becoming
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


See thats where you got your thinking wrong.

A soldier is never off the clock, they are soldiers 24/7. They must follow all rules all the time, not just while they are "on the clock".


This is why I don't think civilians have a right to tell the Military how to do anything. They don't even know how the damn thing operates, but they want to put their two cents in anyways.


This was how it was sold to the rather blind politicians of the day as the compromise
the reality was exactly as you said...to include witch hunts to figure out of someone was gay if they deemed it necessary or fun or whatever...(I seen john walking into a gay bar when he was on leave...lets get him). Its why DADT is now being debated overall.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I have been in for a very long time and the only witch hunts I ever seen, been involoved in or heard of has been to get rid of a soldier who didn't want to act like one.

In fact the only ones who have ever used the witch hunt excuse are people who are using it for revenge or they are really bad soldiers who have been drummed out of the military and will say anything derogatory to make themselves look like the victim.

Make up whatever excuse you want to justify why this was introduced in the first place. I'm sure Clinton would agree with you, after all this excuse just makes him look naive instead of against openly gay soldiers.


My last paragraph still stands.



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Being gay/lesbian does not make you a better/worse soldier. Unless your one of those fem gay guys that are afraid to get dirty and hold guns like they have an std. Tho being a bull lesbian may in fact raise your ass kicking skills from fem to manly and beyond...Thats my input



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by KILL_DOGG

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I keep to myself with the exception of a few friens and family. I really keep my guard up to everyone else, heterosexual or not, because I have a distrust of many people.


Go figure, you don't have many friends. I can't understand why.


Why the sad face? It's my choice that I don't have many friends because I don't like people in general. Most Amercians aren't nothing but whiny, pretentious babies who get their feelings hurt every time someone says something they don't like.

I'm perfectly fine. I don't need the social life or friends so many people seem to crave. I'm absolutely blessed to have the life I have.



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