The END of Online Piracy

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by mr-lizard
They have families.. They went into this with the understanding that this was going to be their career/ their income.. Little did they know, that bunch of theives with a sense of entitlement would be forcing them to alter their business plan.. Its 100% pathetic.

Before you make statements like this, do a little research as to why Radiohead and Trent Reznor have broken ties with the mainstream music industry in favor of a DIY distribution model and working with smaller independent labels. It's because they realized the "music industry", as it stands today, doesn't have the best interests of the artists or their fans in mind. That being said, the real test is going to be if an artist that is not already established can pull it off. It's one thing when you've been selling out arena shows for the better part of a decade - you have a fan base that will likely follow you wherever you go at that point. If someone can create a fan base of that size and that loyalty from an online presence, that will truly signal the death knell for the industry.

reply to post by Mobius1974


I was just pointing out that you can tell the bands that are in it because they enjoy it... Korn, Royal Bliss, Radiohead. And then there are the bands that are in it for the money... Metallica, Dr. Dre. I know a lot of people who gave up on Metallica after all the stuff they pulled back in the Napster days. If they enjoy making music they know they will get there money from shows. At the last Royal Bliss show I was at they were giving away there cd's all you had to do was ask.

Crash

Originally posted by iterationzero

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by mr-lizard
They have families.. They went into this with the understanding that this was going to be their career/ their income.. Little did they know, that bunch of theives with a sense of entitlement would be forcing them to alter their business plan.. Its 100% pathetic.

Before you make statements like this, do a little research as to why Radiohead and Trent Reznor have broken ties with the mainstream music industry in favor of a DIY distribution model and working with smaller independent labels. It's because they realized the "music industry", as it stands today, doesn't have the best interests of the artists or their fans in mind. That being said, the real test is going to be if an artist that is not already established can pull it off. It's one thing when you've been selling out arena shows for the better part of a decade - you have a fan base that will likely follow you wherever you go at that point. If someone can create a fan base of that size and that loyalty from an online presence, that will truly signal the death knell for the industry.

The arctic monkeys did just that.

No need for a second line.

reply to post by Skyfloating


yeah but we need something to do in between all the sex

reply to post by serbsta
Another step away from freedom and privacy under the veil of stopping "pirates"!!! LOL I guess if they went back to the eighties they would arrest about half of the kids cause we made copies of tapes and shared them. Nobody shares files for profit. Its an illusion. Also if people still made quality music and movies and software that actually performed as advertised and quit over charging for all of the above, file sharing would die. If I ever would download a shared file it would be because I wasn't going to buy it anyway. I own lots of music and movies and I had to learn the hard way over the years about how the quality has declined in both. Its so bad I just wait until its on youtube, cable or I can borrow it from someone. I have to extensively research a movie, music and software before I will purchase them anymore. Make no mistake this is about control and privacy not lost revenue.

Something the music and movie industry could look into would be live cds that have imteractive software tied to feeds of behind the sence concert tour video feeds face book and twitter tied to the live cd. When I say live cd I am speaking of the cds that run on cd drives seperate of the operating system of the computer. They are sort of boot cd. But use it for links to private connections of behind the scene type features that you would be unable to get with out the store bought cd.

reply to post by crashbehr


For metallica "pulling that stuff" ... Exactly what stuff?? Wanting to get paid for their product? How can you hold it against the band to want to get paid for their product?? It is a dilusional point of view!

Does anyone remember before VHS came out that we had nothing to play or record movies on? At that time movies came out and the industry only had the theatres as their source of income. Then VHS came out and then was folowed by the digital disc and an entire industry sprang up from this new technology, giving the studios another vehicle with which they could make even more money than before. As far as I'm concerned once the movie is done at the theatre it is fair game and I will download it. The studios are crying and have been ever since even though Hollywierd was making oodles of money.
We've been making copies of music with 8-tracks,cassettes and discs - why do they sell us all the blank media? What do they think we use them for? They can't have their cake and eat it too.Those greedy bastards can go pound salt up their collective asses.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I apologize if you fit that mold... But as it stands right now..
Lets use taproot as an example...
They record a CD .. They release that CD..
There business model is based on sales of the CD... If their "fans" all Download the CD .. They loose money.. PERIOD!!!!

For every download.. you could argue that is a lost sale... If you take something for free, that is not offered for free.. THAT, in my opinion, is leeching/stealing.

reply to post by serbsta


I made sure to illegally download as much music and videos as possible before they finalized it.

reply to post by Mobius1974


I see you completely ignored the other part of the post. I gave 3 other bands that understand how to keep there fans happy and coming to shows. And not showing themselves has just in it for the money. But that is ok I can also see that you do not understand the full scope of what this could do. The government has no right to attempt to control the internet.

Crash

I don't suppose Mobius could supply a link (free) to download some Taproot because he keeps going on about them and I just wanna see what all the fuss is about

If Taproot have been going for 20 years and still haven't made any money, maybe they should give up?

They do the music because they love too. If it's about the money then tough titty..

reply to post by crashbehr

reply to post by Mobius1974

Ironic that you should mention metallica. They are known as the champions against 'stealing' their work. Little do people know that they themselves have stolen a bunch of their songs. They make millions and do that...

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I apologize if you fit that mold... But as it stands right now..
Lets use taproot as an example...
They record a CD .. They release that CD..
There business model is based on sales of the CD... If their "fans" all Download the CD .. They loose money.. PERIOD!!!!

For every download.. you could argue that is a lost sale... If you take something for free, that is not offered for free.. THAT, in my opinion, is leeching/stealing.

Taproot - famous in the late nineties, early 2000 (ish) - still touring. Okay show me some unbiased statistics comparing losses to download. Not just for taproot but for other artists too if you can.

You could also argue that every lost sale is hitting the people who are making money from the product, (the band and their music).

Also i advise you to research 360 deals, and also the current trend of tours and merchandise over cd releases for profit, as in the current climate - this is exactly how things are occuring. T-shirts are the grease of the industry in some circles. Don't believe me?

www.planetoftunes.com...

Also take note of other notions (which i'll leave you to ponder at your leisure) such as music tax, or 'music as water' or indeed a myriad of other ideas (again) such as radioheads 'pay what the hell you want' approach.

reply to post by serbsta


Google Books is the biggest pirate of intellectual property, let's see if the Feds shut down Google Books.

Google Books illegally takes everyones intellectual property and posts it on the Internet.

books.google.com...

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Lets use taproot as an example...
They record a CD .. They release that CD..
There business model is based on sales of the CD... If their "fans" all Download the CD .. They loose money.. PERIOD!!!!

If they are these guys on Victory Records then as that article puts it

Taproot are about to get f****d! Welcome to the club!

The article goes on to talk about the bad choice signing with Victory Records is.

One of the bands that is pissed at the Label are Hawthorne Heights

Hawthorne Heights Sue Victory Records, Say They've Been 'Abused'

The lawsuit also asserts Victory has received more than $10 million in revenue from Hawthorne Heights CDs, DVDs and merchandise, yet the label still claims the band owes Victory more than $1 million.

And this is an small label that usually translates to a bit more looking out for the artist. They would have been better off doing the Radiohead thing cause even at $1 each for the 600,000 or so cd's they have sold beats nothing.

If MPAA start being stupid we should sue record/film companies for breach of contract.

They claim their music/films are entertainment.. Sue them for the crap they produce for not being fit for purpose..Or as described..

Oh come on! It's not the END of pirating, just that there's this ongoing war right now between the corporatists and the cyber-pirates, and the US government has taken a strong, clear stance in it.

Originally posted by serbsta
Well I think this is pretty much it...

On the one hand I do think that online piracy is just that... piracy, stealing. But on the other hand, I place huge blame on the media authorities who refuse to adopt new techniques of doing business that would allow them to utilize these new technologies.

Yeah indeed, piracy is piracy. But I really don't see what it's got to do with "stealing"!

I suggest everyone involved in this thread read the following article by Steve Albini:

The Problem With Music

Steve's an amazing audio engineer, a solid artist in his own right, and probably one of the straightest shooters around. This is an eye-opening analysis of the economics facing most bands.