If I'm not religious but believe intelligent design has possibilities am I therefore religious or s

reply to post by ANNED


I am challenging you.

Nothing starts without a starting point.

You have not answered that.

You have turned around and said I am a deist, and asked what sort.

Answer the question, please - what starts from nothing?

reply to post by catwhoknows


This is something that can not be currently answered. The answer relies on a leap of faith, that i and many others are not willing to make.

I always ask who created the creator. The Religious will argue the creator just i"s". But this defies the logic that you must have a creator, you will go round in circles until you are prepared to take the leap in faith..

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by catwhoknows

 

This is something that can not be currently answered. The answer relies on a leap of faith, that i and many others are not willing to make.

I always ask who created the creator. The Religious will argue the creator just i"s". But this defies the logic that you must have a creator, you will go round in circles until you are prepared to take the leap in faith..

Its all you can have, faith thats is. But because there is no proof in my mind its "blind faith" and many of us have a problem with just that. If on the other hand some indicators point to a creator that would make it easier.

here are some in my mind "self similarity" another I call "feedback" that is positive intentions gain positive reactions and visa versa - old wives tale "be-careful what you wish for"

all scientist base evryting on substences that behave a certain way,and therefore are somewhat inteligent
so yes gjob

reply to post by majestictwo


Re your Question…

If I'm not religious but believe intelligent design has possibilities am I therefore religious or scientific

“Intelligent Design” is NOT religion
But some obviously attempt to make a "religion" out of this subject…

Just because someone is said to be “Intelligent” does Not mean, we all have to automatically "worship" that person, or call him a god…

Some of us supposedly use our ability to “Intelligently Design” all sorts of things in this world.
But we don’t worship “Design Engineers” do we ?

“Intelligent Design” does Not require a god, but to “worship” someone or something on the other hand, involves "religion".

_________________________________

Why do we use the term the "most worshipful master", or in other situations "your worship the mayor".
It sort of implies the worship of some, within the human Species doesn't it?
Human kind is a very strange Species.
Perhaps too Superstitious ?

_________________________________

So "Intelligent Design" is more Scientific than religious…

But some who fear the possibility of "Intelligent Design" regarding this little Universe refer to such thoughts as being religious, but this is just a copout to falsely achieve peace within them selves.

I accept "Intelligent Design" but am Not religious in the sense that I "worship" something.

_________________________________

If the Root is “Awareness” then “Awareness” is NOT necessarily a god, but rather a part of us which is the "Observer".

If the Root is Not “Awareness”, then nothing at all would know, this little Universe or any Species etc. even exists?

We can't say "Awareness" is of the Universe because "Awareness" is "Non-Dimensional" having No Size or Shape but is the "Observer".

reply to post by majestictwo


You have hit the nail on the head here....twice actually.


Yes, it is blind faith. That is where I was stuck and left 'on the fence'. I believed in a creator but could not make that leap to just let go and TRUST in a God that I couldn't see and science couldn't prove to me existed. After I felt it though I knew beyond a doubt that not only is God and the Holy Spirit real, it is so much more powerful and available than I could have ever imagined that it's exciting!!

Second...you speak of positive attracting positive and negative negative. YES! I have always felt there was a truth to this, and now I KNOW it is true and understand why. The holy spirit IS love, or what we describe as the feeling of love. (we lack better words for describing it) If you project or 'connect' to this positive, loving energy it will naurally flow back to you. Not only will you experience a better attitude towards life, but you will see the world around you in a more positive light and this WILL have a positive affect your daily life. You will naturally be a better, nicer person and in return others will treat you better.

This seems like such a small thing, but one little personal example I can give you from the past month. Normally, I am a very impaient person. If things don't go my way or someone is not efficient I tend to get irritated and can be a bit....@itchy with them. Ever since my 'awareness', I am a much kinder person. Several times just today, things didn't go the way I anticipated. The contacts weren't available, a class I taught had some glitches, some food was way overpriced, an x-ray took forever and they were out of disks to make me a copy. A few weeks ago, I would have been very irritated by the end of the day and snappy with people. Instead, I very sincerely told them not to worry about it, it wasn't their fault (while smiling) and told them to have a great day. Instead of walking away mad and uptight (blood pressure and heartrate elevated) I felt good about myself and happy that I was kind to someone who was kind to me in turn....something small in itself but VERY significant over the course of a lifetime.

My stress level is WAYYYY lower than it used to be, and having been recently diagnosed with MS, stress is a HUGE factor in the disease process. This could literally save my life.

An Agnostic doesn't believe in any god or a creative intelligence. Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1]

A Gnostic believes in an intelligent, creative consciousness. If I had to label myself, it would be gnostic, because I have tapped in to that upper level at various times. I honestly think we all have that ability and are capable of much more than most know. Sometimes,in my life, the answers have come out of no where. At certain times in my life, if I was very 'UP' and happy, that's when it would usually happen. Someone told me we have the ability to tap into the Akashic records.

I'm not admitting to believing in an old man on a throne. I think we are all part of something much greater and we can attain much more than we know. I believe we are capable of attaiining a higher consciousness and knowing many things. We are not separate from the 'Source'.

reply to post by Onboard2


Exactly. Now...if you could take that knowledge a step further and make a personal decision to accept that incredible warm, empowering love as the holy spirit (which is really just acknowledging that string that attaches us all to each other and God), you can have that 'uplifting' and good feeling all the time! Imagine the freedom of not having to search for those answers anymore. It is truly freeing.

I realize now that many different cultures and religions have all experienced this same 'power' and try to explain it in different ways. Call it what you will, it is very real. It exists. No, it can not be scientificly proven YET but that does not make it any less real when you physically experience it. I was scared and confused by its power until I put it together and realized what it was....then it was uplifting and wonderful.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Re…

what starts from nothing?

Just for a bit of amusement…. "A brain teaser"...

Most don’t understand the “Component” called “Nothing”, and in fact never really think about it.
In a weird sort of way, “Nothing’” is “Something”…

Sometimes we say, “There is Nothing in there”.
Or….
“There is Nothing to see”.
Or….
“There is “Nothing in the bowl”.
Or…..
“Nothing was left in there”.

The very fact that we can Identify this Component called “Nothing” and discus it, implies that “Nothing” is in fact “Something”, otherwise the word “Nothing” would Not exist in the English language.

“Nothing” can also have size and shape, which is determined by what can Contain “Nothing”.

So you see there is much more to the understanding of this “Nothing” than what most have ever contemplated.

You could say that “Something” came from “Nothing” as “Nothing” is a Paradox in that both “Nothing” and “Something” are of the One.
Where “Nothing” and “Something” are Sub-Components of the “One”, yet in this pair the "Nothing" can't be separated to exist alone, without being "Something".

Yea I know, its enough to drive one to drink…

Originally posted by ANNED
You sound like a Deist.
en.wikipedia.org...

What type of deist you will have to find out on your own. you may be a Christian Deist, modern Deist, or Classical deist.
www.positivedeism.com...

The best part about deism is there is no one that can give you a hard time about not fitting mold of what they think you should be.

There are few sins in deism.
And no hell and damnation.

Thanks Anned - you could be right

Some deists see design in nature and purpose in the universe and in their lives (Prime Designer). Others see God and the universe in a co-creative process (Prime Motivator). Some deists view God in classical terms and see God as observing humanity but not directly intervening in our lives (Prime Observer), while others see God as a subtle and persuasive spirit (Prime Mover).

Snip above from this page
en.wikipedia.org...

Well I think I'm perhaps the first one, but actually the second is more likely. I'll tell you why, I'm a believer in feedback into the system. I do believe it works and so therefore it can only mean the second of the two because it contains motivation. To have feedback into the system can only be for motivation or control. It seems that there should be one for "Prime Control" although I don't like that idea it shouldn't be ruled out I guess.

Thanks Anned I'll have to go think about this some more.