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Genocide Wiped Out Native American Population

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posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 





Jeez Aquarius1, you've took the shine off my day with this one...


Sorry about that, the good news is the day is just beginning, sure the rest of it will be great.

Thanks for posting even though it is more gloom and doom, sadly it the sign of the times.




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by MonteroReal

Originally posted by Aquarius1


You are correct, I for one do not consider Native Americans as "our", they are in my opinion the real Americans and here for how long no one knows for sure. I am second generation American, after my grandparents migrated to America they met, so yes I wouldn't exist if they hadn't come here, they wouldn't have met in Europe since they came from different countries.

You make some excellent points MonteroReal, thank you for posting.


Well, they are not real "americans" too, the name is european, without europeans the name wont exist.


Good point, for now lets just say native to this continent, which includes more than America.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.


Now later on after colonization of the Americas began, ethnic cleansing went into full gear...and of course as always happens...the Government, used it's military to control The People. They were murdered, tortured and inilated if necessary, as well as lied to when called for.



Well, i really disagree with using a XXI century concept like ethnic cleansing, but now that you mention the gov, there is something that happen here in South America and most people here doesnt know, a lot of indians die with sickness when the spaniards came, but there were still a lot of them, after the independence wars they were wiped in several areas of south america by the new govs, but the gov and official history blames the spaniards for that.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:42 AM
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I'm trying to remember off the cuff how this goes

something like the tribe that would become the Aztecs traveled From somewhere in Canada to to finaly arrive in Teotiahauacan where they saw the sign that was promised and Eagle sitting a top a cactus holding a snake.(The Eagle is another form of their most revered God ,Blue Hummimgbird on the Left Foot)

I have no idea what impact these sojorners had on the peoples they met on their quest ,I know that they were mostly a death cult that for some reason made this journey that finally landed them in what is now Mexico City

at some point there was a supposed smaller reverse migration(of Aztecs?) and this time it did affect the peoples in it's path ,ergo the Anasazi massacres .apparently there is some archeology in in New Mexico that relates to the Ballcourt /Worship/Sacrifice and therefore it 's accompanying religion and ruthless killing for sacrificial /purposes

anyway that's all off the cuff maybe I shouldn't have posted since I don't have the time to research it out .but discovery channel and history channel have a ton of videos you can watch free online about this very thing that's what I'm referencing



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
It's sad to see how all the First People Of The Americas were wiped out by all these so called European explorers.

We're still here.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by MonteroReal

Well, i really disagree with using a XXI century concept like ethnic cleansing, but now that you mention the gov, there is something that happen here in South America and most people here doesnt know, a lot of indians die with sickness when the spaniards came, but there were still a lot of them, after the independence wars they were wiped in several areas of south america by the new govs, but the gov and official history blames the spaniards for that.


I've read speculations recently, though I cannot recall in which book, that if it were not for smallpox alone, Europeans might have taken much, much longer to settle the Americas.


edit on 9/21/10 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by MonteroReal

Well, i really disagree with using a XXI century concept like ethnic cleansing, but now that you mention the gov, there is something that happen here in South America and most people here doesnt know, a lot of indians die with sickness when the spaniards came, but there were still a lot of them, after the independence wars they were wiped in several areas of south america by the new govs, but the gov and official history blames the spaniards for that.


I've read speculations recently, though I cannot recall in which book, that if it were not for smallpox alone, Europeans might have taken much, much longer to settle the Americas.


edit on 9/21/10 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



Well, in South America maybe the Incas would had resist a little longer but in the end they would had fall because they were so divided that it was unavoidable, they were not that advanced as some people think, sure they made nice buildings but they were still pretty much stone age people, in the rest of South America i doubt it, they were more primitive and divided, there were zones with very few population so they would had fall quickly.

Here in my country the ones who resisted were the caribes, but a lot of the other tribes allied with the spaniards and fought against them until they wiped out almost all, still are caribes here but not much.

In Central America, i doubt the Aztecs would had resist enough, they were hated by too much others indians, in fact were indians the ones who really destroy their empire, the mayas were already falling.

Now, North America is a very different thing because in Central and South America the Spaniards take all the land they found as quickly as they could, they were real explorers, they just went from land to land, but there in NA the english only settle in few lands and the indians were free in the rest so a lot of them had time to catch at least how to use the arms and horses, maybe there they would had resist much much longer.

Btw, the Araucanos here in South America did resist a lot, in fact, they were able to sign a treaty with the King where he didnt add their lands to ours lands, but they still accept the King as their lord and sovereign, and agree to fight under the king against any enemy of his, in the independence wars they fought for the king, at least most of them fought for the king, so they really had time to catch but in the end the realist loose and the rebels won, and it was the rebels, the now Republic of Chile the ones who invade them and annexed the land.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by Electric Crown
 


The Europeans wiping out so many Native Americans is a sad part of our history, if so many hadn't been wiped out centuries before and had there been a much larger Native American population it could have been a different story, they could have wiped out the Europeans and you and I wouldn't be talking about it today.


The vast majority of Native Americans that were killed by Europeans were accidentally killed by exposure to diseases against which they had no immunities.

Less than 20 years after the Spanish landed in the Americas, most of the great cities in Mesoamerica and South America were empty. Almost certainly due to disease.

Harte



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Harte
 


I will have to look up specifics, as it has been awhile.

The Spaniards landed and did some initial surveys. During these, they made it up the Amazon, and met a very large tribe living on the banks of the river, stretching for miles. Not sure on population, however i seem to recall the number thrown around as being over a million.

This city became a city of legend, as the exploration parties that returned a few years later saw no sign of this river city. Disease wiped out the entire community, and the jungle completely overtook it. I believe they have found some traces of it in the last 10 years or so...but, like I said, i would have to dig to find specifics.

The point is, disease seems to have been such an effective killer, over such a short period of time, that is also spurred some of the legends of the massive cities and populations in S. America. And, of course, what disease isn't evil enough to kill was taken care of by religion. Spanish mastiff's disembowling chiefs in front of their tribes to invoke terror, for example.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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umm the Europeans didn't wipe out the Anasazi, flat out .

it was not invading Spaniards or any Europeans . They were gone long before any Europeans arrived on the continent

Good lord

if it was anyone it was probably the ancestors of the the current Pueblo tribes since they are here and occupying the former Anasazi territory don't know that for a fact but if one wants to explain the disappearance of the Anasazi without laying it on the ancestors of the Hopi and Navajo then one is going to need to explain not only who Killed the Anasazi but who killed their killers. Hint it wasn't Europeans



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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A very informative and disturbing thread highlighting again how the past is glossed over to favor the victors, and justify wholesale murder and theft and a casual disregard for life and property by the European Christians.

I wouldn't expect a lot of people to show back up at the scene of the crime on this one, and consider the ramifications of their ancestors and religion's actions in regards to this forced depopulation of the indigenous people of the Americans.

Great piece Aqaurius Star and Flag.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A very informative and disturbing thread highlighting again how the past is glossed over to favor the victors, and justify wholesale murder and theft and a casual disregard for life and property by the European Christians.

I wouldn't expect a lot of people to show back up at the scene of the crime on this one, and consider the ramifications of their ancestors and religion's actions in regards to this forced depopulation of the indigenous people of the Americans.

Great piece Aqaurius Star and Flag.


Come again?
How do the European Christians factor into this case?



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by Electric Crown
 


The Europeans wiping out so many Native Americans is a sad part of our history, if so many hadn't been wiped out centuries before and had there been a much larger Native American population it could have been a different story, they could have wiped out the Europeans and you and I wouldn't be talking about it today.


The vast majority of Native Americans that were killed by Europeans were accidentally killed by exposure to diseases against which they had no immunities.

Less than 20 years after the Spanish landed in the Americas, most of the great cities in Mesoamerica and South America were empty. Almost certainly due to disease.

Harte


That may be but the fact still remains that first so called Americans from Europe did slaughter the Indians because they considered them Heathens, sound familiar, same thing happened in Europe in the Middle Ages.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by MrsBlonde
umm the Europeans didn't wipe out the Anasazi, flat out .

it was not invading Spaniards or any Europeans . They were gone long before any Europeans arrived on the continent

Good lord

Thank you MrsBlonde.
How nice to have a rational comment on ATS (I don't mean to exclude other posters in this thread when i say that.)


Originally posted by MrsBlondeif it was anyone it was probably the ancestors of the the current Pueblo tribes since they are here and occupying the former Anasazi territory don't know that for a fact but if one wants to explain the disappearance of the Anasazi without laying it on the ancestors of the Hopi and Navajo then one is going to need to explain not only who Killed the Anasazi but who killed their killers.

"Anasazi" is Navajo for "Ancient Enemies."

That should tell you something right there.

Harte



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

I will have to look up specifics, as it has been awhile.

The Spaniards landed and did some initial surveys. During these, they made it up the Amazon, and met a very large tribe living on the banks of the river, stretching for miles. Not sure on population, however i seem to recall the number thrown around as being over a million.

This city became a city of legend, as the exploration parties that returned a few years later saw no sign of this river city. Disease wiped out the entire community, and the jungle completely overtook it. I believe they have found some traces of it in the last 10 years or so...but, like I said, i would have to dig to find specifics.

The point is, disease seems to have been such an effective killer, over such a short period of time, that is also spurred some of the legends of the massive cities and populations in S. America. And, of course, what disease isn't evil enough to kill was taken care of by religion. Spanish mastiff's disembowling chiefs in front of their tribes to invoke terror, for example.


My region was one of the main candidates for the City of El Dorado, now, the myth started in Ecuador with the Muisca Tribe, not in the Amazon, in the beggining it was supposed to be in some part of Nueva Granada (Colombia), exploring Fernando de Orellana found the Amazon and they went looking there but they were already out of the zone where El Dorado was supposed to be, after that the english decided El Dorado should be in some part of the Orinoco river, and they came here.

Now, i really doubt about a tribe with one million members, doesnt make much sense, a tribe or society that big would have left something like a big city and i dont know nothing about cities or something like that in the amazon, orinoco, and near zones.

And about the mastiffs, there is a lot of myth about that.


Originally posted by Aquarius1

That may be but the fact still remains that first so called Americans from Europe did slaughter the Indians because they considered them Heathens, sound familiar, same thing happened in Europe in the Middle Ages.


Yes and no, it was most because they were not human and had no soul.

But still if they were not human and had no soul, friendly indians were very well treated, the problem were always the enemies.

Very early in history, less that 50 years after 1492, i dont remember the exact date, the spaniards decided indians did have souls, so they were human, of course, that mean they had to be converted, and that was already happening, indian slavery was forbidden too, even when the enemies were the only ones who become slaves.

A lot of the remaining indians disappear was because of the mixing, indians were free vasals of the crown, the crown promoted the marriage between indian women who converted and spaniards,etc etc

It was too the reason why spaniards start to bring black slaves to America.


edit on 21-9-2010 by MonteroReal because:




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Jared Diamond wrote "Collapse", which is a great book that explores why a particular civilization failed in a certain region. Some are due to outside influences, some to natural disasters, others to just poor human planning.

You may also want to look up "king leopold's ghost". It is a very good book about the Congo under Belgian rule. One of the arguments in the book, well more like debate, is that even though the Belgians did help lead to the deaths of over half the population in the region, was it genocide? True, many many natives died but more as a result of neglect and disease than any sort of overreaching program. Basically the Belgians didn't kill them because they were trying to wipe them out, but it just sort of happened. The same way you might overfish a lake or river, always expecting the resource to renew itself.

The same may be said for the Native Americans. Were the British/US making a concious effort to eliminate a specific people for no other reason than they were seen as inferior, or did it just sort of happen? The Indians were on the land, we wanted the land, and somewhere someone had to lose out.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Maybe I'm a little heartless when it comes to this.

But, why should I care? It happened, its sad, lets make sure it doesn't happen again, stop acting like this happened yesterday and every white person should feel ashamed.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarius1

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by Electric Crown
 


The Europeans wiping out so many Native Americans is a sad part of our history, if so many hadn't been wiped out centuries before and had there been a much larger Native American population it could have been a different story, they could have wiped out the Europeans and you and I wouldn't be talking about it today.


The vast majority of Native Americans that were killed by Europeans were accidentally killed by exposure to diseases against which they had no immunities.

Less than 20 years after the Spanish landed in the Americas, most of the great cities in Mesoamerica and South America were empty. Almost certainly due to disease.

Harte


That may be but the fact still remains that first so called Americans from Europe did slaughter the Indians because they considered them Heathens, sound familiar, same thing happened in Europe in the Middle Ages.


There is more to the mix than religion when it comes to turf. There are whole economic theories that come into play with trade and colonialism. Blaming it on Christianity is the simplistic approach and doesn't factor in the reality of cultural interaction.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Becoming
 


This is something that is still ongoing. It started 500 years ago, happened yesterday, and will take place tomorrow.

As far as the USA is concerned, anyway. I don't have a deep understanding of other countries native issues other than the USA and Japan.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by AdAbsurdum
 


That was just my own personal opinion.

I respect yours and am happy you respect mine.



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