Proof of evolution From wolf to dog

I was just kicking something around in my brain the other day thinking have dogs always been around, then I watched a documentary on from Wolf to Dog how man has tamed this K-9 and I think this is proof all in itself that evolution does occur. I don't think that all these breeds of dogs have always been around. this is not a bash christian thread or anything of that nature in fact I am a christian scientist. Please discuss in an appropriate manner this topic at hand.

www.pbs.org...

reply to post by clever024


you just hit apon my favorite part of any one that beleives in darwinism. How in sam hill did we go from a dire wolf to a chihuahua

I predict this will turn into another religion bashing thread.

In 3... 2... 1...

Thanks for the link.

I've read about this stuff before, some Russians actually bred foxes to become tame and they ended up looking like domestic dogs as well.

This has been around for a long while. I wouldn't really call it proof though, it's evidence. One of the many, many contributing pieces of evidence toward the theory of evolution.

It's pretty much impossible to prove a theory, I think the only theories that are considered facts are within mathematics, and within the bounds of an assumption.

I'm probably just being a bit semantic here, but I always take an opportunity to emphasize how strong the words 'evidence' and 'theory' are in the scientific community. More often than not, people using common English would refer to the same things as 'proof' and 'fact'.

reply to post by allprowolfy


THAT confuses you? Wow, I mean I can understand someone challenging from a single celled organism to a mammal, but from a canine to another canine? you need to speak to some dog breeders.

Seems those that claim to be "Canine" experts believe they came from Wolves - I don't know but its interesting. I know some people that raise and domesticate wolves and they just like dogs. I can see that in some breeds such as the Sherpard but my dog is a Basset Hound and I can't find one clue as to how his ancestor might have been a wolf. Oh wait I just thought of something - he howls like a wolf.

dogs have been bred for centuries, you take the desired trait from one dog and then breed it with another dog of a desired trait, just like minature horses are just like big horses in every aspect except size, a dog in a cooler climate will grow thicker fur, a dog in a warmer climate a thinner fur.

In Australia we have the Dingo which was introduced 10 thousand years ago, but now we have got black ones, brown ones, gold and white, the dingo did not bread with any other dog in Australia but was able to change to suit it's enviroment.

now we have cross bred dingo's which have mated with domestic dogs, who knows what will come walking out the bush one day?
perhaps a minature dingo

It should be of interest to note that when "domestic" man arrived on the scene, that exact moment is when all other "domesticated" animals arrived.

So that means that man went from a wild beast to an intelligent thoughtful creature overnight, then did the absolute impossible. He domesticated animals, harnessed math, science, and constructed massive temples across the planet. I don't think so.

Whomever "domesticated man" also domesticated the dog, the chicken, the ducks and geese, goats, cows, and the list goes on. Since that time, man has participated in breeding programs that pick out those traits he desires. We are in essence practicing what we were taught to do. We hybridize and cultivate, we instinctively search the world for natural resources and above all we covet Gold!

We are programmed creatures who have stepped out of Evolution, disease runs rampant throughout our genomes because by the time the flaws are discovered the little beasts have gone and populated again! This is why domesticated animals should be housed separately than wild creatures.

Ever raise a Cornish hen to maturity? By the time she reaches 10-months her legs are so big that supporting herself puts a strain on her heart. If by chance she is raised by someone who wishes to turn her into a pet she will die within her first year from heart failure. Does this sound like a viable species? No it is a twisted freak of science not Nature. Just like us!

Just my opinion, but this argument is very weak, and obtuse. Granted, wolves are extremely different from say, yorkies. But they are both canines. Panthers, likewise, are much different from siamese, yet still felines.

Both have been acted upon by an outside force - other than nature; i.e. humans. This is the distinct difference between breeding, and inter-specie macro evolution.

Originally posted by clever024
I was just kicking something around in my brain the other day thinking have dogs always been around, then I watched a documentary on from Wolf to Dog how man has tamed this K-9 and I think this is proof all in itself that evolution does occur. I don't think that all these breeds of dogs have always been around. this is not a bash christian thread or anything of that nature in fact I am a christian scientist. Please discuss in an appropriate manner this topic at hand.

www.pbs.org...

It's true many breeds descended from wolves. However there are other canids in the picture as well. The oldest known breed of dog, the Saluki is a member of the the sighthound group (greyhound type dogs that hunt by sight) and probably is the result of a mix of canids including hyenas. In many sighthound breeds the heat cycles are different from other domesticated dogs as well as their general behavior. I'm a bit of a sighthound fanatic.

people.unt.edu...

It is thought that chihuahuas were domesticated from a species of fox.

Just a bit of interesting trivia.

reply to post by Cobra5000




I would tend to think that the common domesticated dog is a combination of early mans breeding of a variety of wild dogs. I am sure early man tried to domesticate every type of wild dog and then either intentionally or unintentionally had them interbreed. Once you had 4 to 8 types of wild canines domesticated, the breeding would have created all sorts of variations.

Here are some more examples of human induced "evolution".

Hybrid Animals

You can start a new breed in one generation. Breeding certain "good" traits has been done in plants and animals for thousands of years. It's called Artificial Selection

Not debating that things evolve, personally I think all of us humans will be one color one day.

Before anyone needs to question why any large dog would have evolved ancestors that are smaller (or vice-versa) you would need to ask yourself if it would be at all likely (or even possible) for any species over millions of years and thousands of generations, to not adapt to changing environments and to remain the same despite the effects of adaptive radiation.

Those with useful biological mutations are more likely to pass on their genes, and over time as species move from one habitat to another, the useful adaptations become more distinct.

reply to post by Cobra5000


That's a wee bit biased to name only one of the 14 Ancient dog breeds. Mine is also on that list but is not a "sight-hound".

14 Ancient Dog Breeds

The Shiba Inu is dated to the 3rd Century BC by way of fossilized remains which shows no variation in form.

There is the recent discovery of a jaw bone in Belgium that suggests that there was a domesticated Dog from 14,000 years ago, but that is subjective because it was a bone found in a cave which could indicate that man ate the dog and not befriended it.

It is not proof of evolution in the slightest, because if you release almost any breed if domesticated dog back into the wild, within a few generations they would hook up with some wolves or coyotes and then they would become wolves again.

Hyenas are not of the Canidae family they are of the Feliformia which means they are actually more closely related to the Cats, Meercats and Mongoose than they are to Dogs or Wolves, they resmblence to Dogs or Wolves is only outward.

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


I have always thought of the Hyena as being a badger. The similarities of its head and body shape remind me of a Wolverine but larger.

The teeth are unique, this picture certainly shows how they can crush bone:

reply to post by allprowolfy


All canines share the same genetic code. It's when the genes turn on and off that differentiates the breeds.

reply to post by Greensage


All are part of the the Carnivora which breacks down into Feliformia and Caniformia, Badgers which you mention are in the Caniformia branch which breaks down into Amphicyonidae which is extinct, Canidae which includes Dogs, Wolves, Foxes, Jackals, And Coyotes, and Arctoidea which includes Weasels, Badgers, Seals, Sea Lions and Bears.

Carnivora

Originally posted by dashen
It is not proof of evolution in the slightest, because if you release almost any breed if domesticated dog back into the wild, within a few generations they would hook up with some wolves or coyotes and then they would become wolves again.

So you're saying that a domesticated dog will turn into a wolf or coyote in a few generations, but it isn't evolution? So... what is it then, magic?