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The "Right" fits the Marxist definition of Fascism.

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posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


America 1945-present would be the 4th Reich.

Now, let's move on.




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 


A hollow victory is just that: Hollow.

Now go back to playing with your Rush and Hannity dolls.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Misoir
 


America 1945-present would be the 4th Reich.

Now, let's move on.


Okay, thank you, let's move on then.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


My point is that you switch between belittling the tea party and equating the right with Republicans' (in)action on petroleum issues.

I don't believe that "the right" = "GOP" = "the Tea Parties"

Holding Conservatism responsible for what GOP hacks vote on in congress is like holding leftists responsible for the Democrats' hiring of Goldman Sachs ex-employees to oversee the bailout of .... Goldman Sachs.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 


A hollow victory is just that: Hollow.

Now go back to playing with your Rush and Hannity dolls.


Yes, yes, by all means, keep trolling to cover up your own.... um.... posts.

Add a second line, so you can feel superior.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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I cant and its a shame, but that is irrelevant to the point of what conservatism is though.
It certainly is not fascist.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Punisher75
 


On the other hand, just look at the thread title: The "right" fits the marxist definition of fascism.

Well, of course it does. Labels always do that for us; they make a broad brush, the better with which to paint our sweeping generalizations.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Communism,socialism,do not work and is a tyrannical way to govern people,just ask the dolly llama,the millions of people murdered buy Mao,or the millions murdered buy Stalin! look at how well its going in say Greece or France, then tell us how nice that way of government is. What we have in this country is the most free form of not just a government ,but LIFE IT SELF! granted some have been exploiting this form of government but that is YOUR fault you for the last 100 years have voted for the leaders we have that have put you in this position! And now you will give more control to the government? do you not see what you have lost and now willing to give away? The terms left and right come from the Romans not the french! in Rome if you were for the Cesar you stood on his right, if not you stood on his left thus left and right! The only thing correct in this post is YOU have let our government have too much power to let bankers set the rules! do you even know that your government gave control of our money to a bank called the federal reserve, and that bank IS NOT CONTROLED BUY OUR GOVERNMENT? THE USA CONTROLS NONE OF IT'S OWN MONEY! So no the right don't fit the definition of fascism,the left do they are the ones that want to control everything, the right just has let the corporate America buy there way into control ! The tea party sorry to disappoint you is for restoring the freedoms we have lost! taking back control from the bankers and politicians! the right of the government we have IS NOT PART OF THE TEA PARTY! they sure would like to hijack it but they are fooling them self in thinking we feel they are true republicans THEY ARE NOT! when we have control you will see rinos on the street looking for jobs but first we will take it from the communist and socialist first! If you think you are free you are wrong join us in giving freedom back to the rightful owners, the everyday people of the United States of America!



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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So many forget that America is NOT a Democracy but a REPUBLIC. People don't make the decisions. They *choose* the people who make the decisions.

Until this is realized, along with many other things, the American people will continue to elect the same ol' bums; "The Big Douches" and "The Giant Turds" to quote a comedy show.

I think people are so blinded by the propaganda of the illusion of Democracy that they blindly take at face value whatever the pundits, talking heads, and most definitely the ruling lawmakers all the way up the ladder say like:
Democracy in action, home of the brave, we united, they hate us for are freedom, we are working on it, we have put forth, we have authored, we are doing, we are making, etc, etc....
That they just have stopped thinking for themselves when it comes to this and just vote, just vote for whomever and whatever.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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... and a "Republic" is a representative democracy.

Also see: What Is Representative Democracy?

reply to post by Misoir
 


S&F Misoir - excellent OP. Thank you for being thoughtful and balanced.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


A republic is a republic is a republic, such as a democracy is a democracy is a democracy.
Apples and oranges there. This country is a republic plain and simple.

Republic

While there may be minced definitions out there the link I provided is the definition in it's truest form. We are not a Democracy we are a Republic.


edit on 21-9-2010 by frimilden because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by frimilden
reply to post by soficrow
 


A republic is a republic is a republic, such as a democracy is a democracy is a democracy.
Apples and oranges there. This country is a republic plain and simple.

Republic



From your source:


REPUBLIC

Synonyms: democracy, self-government, self-rule


FYI - A synonym is "a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word."



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
reply to post by Janky Red
 


My point is that you switch between belittling the tea party and equating the right with Republicans' (in)action on petroleum issues.

I don't believe that "the right" = "GOP" = "the Tea Parties"

Holding Conservatism responsible for what GOP hacks vote on in congress is like holding leftists responsible for the Democrats' hiring of Goldman Sachs ex-employees to oversee the bailout of .... Goldman Sachs.


I Equate the Tea Party with Republicans for several reasons; First because FOX news has been the single
biggest creator of the RINO situation in the right. They sold the Patriot Act, GITMO, a Trillion Dollar war, warrant less wire tapping, un precidented growth of government, etc, etc... FOX was the sales man, the entity that
somehow convinced conservatives, on mass, to support the previous president and his expansive agenda.
Now it appears the FOX is a very large part of TTPM and has been for some time

If TTPM were serious about getting their house in order, ejecting the RINO's, rejecting Government secrecy and
imperialist expansion - they would have turned their back on the organization simply because of FOX's role in helping destroy the meaning of conservative by promoting and championing these ideas. If you and all the other conservatives were SERIOUS about restoring some honor to the conservative movement you would have taken stock. WHY did we let this happen? Who convinced us to support this irresponsible, unconstitutional rampage for near a decade??? But frankly I have not seen that, so what do you expect me to think? The same Propaganda outfit, same organizations, same talking heads still have their heads -

Let me ask you - If I told you I had a new party that was different from the DEM's, what would you think?

How about I call it the Populace party -

Lets say, MSNBC covered and promoted it everyday, Howard Dean was the Chairman, Chris Mathews
helped promote and organize it on his show. The NCAA, La Raza and Green Peace helped fund the rallies...
At our rallies we discussed universal Healthcare, Bashed Christianity and talked about raising the Upper 1%
tax rate to 90% Eisenhower style.

What would you honestly think sir???

I would also like to ask you... do you think the GOP should have investigated OPEC when gas shot up to
$5.50 a gallon, given the testimony of the Shell CEO which pointed to massive manipulation?





edit on 21-9-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

I Equate the Tea Party with Republicans for several reasons; First because FOX news has been the single
biggest creator of the RINO situation in the right.


See, I believe the RINO situation pre-existed FOX News by two decades. It's at least as old as McCain's political career....




They sold the Patriot Act, GITMO, a Trillion Dollar war, warrant less wire tapping, un precidented growth of government, etc, etc... FOX was the sales man, the entity that
somehow convinced conservatives, on mass, to support the previous president and his expansive agenda.
Now it appears the FOX is a very large part of TTPM and has been for some time


Why is it so impossible to believe that conservatives, or at least the GOP, would ever have supported these issues without any prompting from the media? I think I could make cogent arguments for each one of those ideas being at home in the GOP ( and in the Donkey as well, since many of those programs were contintued by a "blue" congress after 2006)...



If TTPM were serious about getting their house in order, ejecting the RINO's, rejecting Government secrecy and
imperialist expansion - they would have turned their back on the organization simply because of FOX's role in helping destroy the meaning of conservative by promoting and championing these ideas.


No offense, but the above statement is basically you instructing people whom you personally loathe on how they should think, act, and respond to current events.

I would say, if conservatives were disgusted by the GOPelites climbing in bed with liberals, they'd ... form a movement to reform the GOP from within, without splintering off the way the Bull Moose Party did with Roosevelt. They'd probably call it something like the "Kafe-klatsch movement" or something. Maybe about tea, though.




Let me ask you - If I told you I had a new party that was different from the DEM's, what would you think?

How about I call it the Populace party -


Lets say, MSNBC covered and promoted it everyday, Howard Dean was the Chairman, Chris Mathews
helped promote and organize it on his show. The NCAA, La Raza and Green Peace helped fund the rallies...
At our rallies we discussed universal Healthcare, Bashed Christianity and talked about raising the Upper 1%
tax rate to 90% Eisenhower style.

What would you honestly think sir???


From an analytic perspective, I'd be less interested in the policies espoused, or the puppets performing, than whether YOU felt like there was a difference in the "new" party.

I could ask you the counter-question: Is there anything conservatives could ever do (short of becoming liberals) that you would ever admit was an authentic expression of their own opinions? Or does your blanket disdain for them forbid you from seeing them as human beings with legitimate hopes and fears, at least as seen from within their own world-view?



I would also like to ask you... do you think the GOP should have investigated OPEC when gas shot up to
$5.50 a gallon, given the testimony of the Shell CEO which pointed to massive manipulation?


Well, you probably don't care and/or believe me, but I worked until recently in finance with respect to the petroleum industry. (Not for the evil mega-corps, mind you, but on behalf of the mom & pop producers that still pump a third of oil used by americans.) I can tell you in all honesty that OPEC hasn't mattered on the international scene since 1986, and that the Texas Natural Resources Conservation Committee (TNRCC, or "trainwreck" as it was then known to its subjects) had more to do with the 2005 spike in oil prices than OPEC ever did.

For an entity like OPEC to have a coercive effect on markets, it needs to control a lot more than the 45% of world reserves that OPEC claims. Of course, even that claim is specious, since OPEC cannot prevent it's members from exceeding their quotas (Nigeria and Venezuela are the classic examples). Indeed, many crtics have argued that the OPEC member states are far more addicted to oil than the west is; the petrocracies were more destabilized by 2005 than the west ever was.

IF you wanted to launch a serious investigation, I'd start with the 30 or so refining companies that control all refining in the USA and have the "Big 5" in a real, if unseen choke-hold. They regularly meet in secret to "plan the markets," again in collusion with members of the now rebranded TNRCC and the EPA. It is THEY who have ordained that no new refineries could be built after 1976, even though a new refinery would produce more gas, and less pollution than three or four refineries I could name, one of which was originally built in the nineteen THIRTIES, for God's sake.

My difference with you is that you seem to have been hoodwinked into thinking that big oil is somehow a purely Republican crime. I can guaran-damn-tee you that the current democrat congress is taking as much money to prop up the anti-market status quo as the previous congress ever hoped to. And yet our Besieger-In-Chief only attacks insurance companies that don't contribute to his mafia gang, or else he goes after working-class "Joe the plumber" types, punishing them for trying to incorporate.

And that's the real problem, Donkeys and Elephants are just bookends. something new is needed....




edit on 22-9-2010 by dr_strangecraft because: spelling



posted on Sep, 22 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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And something new is coming! it's called the silent majority,or the tea party movement ! And Fox and hannity are just shills selling somthing they have nothing to do with, looking like hay we are part of a movment NOT!



posted on Sep, 30 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 

Finally someone summed it up right!
I guess someone will sum up this summary in a few sentences.
The right wing has their pants down on ATS now.
It is nice to see some of the countertactics exposed beforehand - just because this was based on Marxist definitions, we are not talking about Communism or anything un-American here, however, that might be what they want to say.
Aside: as a matter of fact, I think Marx and Engels were not only significant scientists (sociology, economics etc.) in their own field, but you could say they were THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS of their time.
I was already fearing the approach of classical Fascism in America when I went to college there in 1987. I wrote an essay about it but the professor threw it back on the grounds that it was completely imaginary.
I told him I lived in a society which experienced Fascism a couple of decades before my childhood, and he didn't. So how did he know?
And the criteria Misoir listed are the classical criteria.
So almost all the community right movements are neo-fascist in this definition - however, they do not know it because

1. they never experienced the aftereffects, and, having a disdain to ALL left thought, they never anaylzed it either (apart from Orwell, there are little concrete criteria for defining what Fascism means in politilogy;
2. most schoolboys know only that Fascists hated and persecuted Jews, and since THIS particular brand does not (it starts to have the Muslims as a bogeyman though since Bush's day), they conclude this CANNOT be Fascism. But it is. And we must be sure it never triumphs or it will be the end of whatever was good in America.

Satr and flag



posted on Sep, 30 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by WhiteDevil013
 

When a powerful government with stricter laws would serve the interests of the general population as against supercapitalist empires who do you think the "smaller government" will serve?
Originally, the freedom from government idea in America was not designed to provide tax havens for the rich... It was designed to make sure the personaly liberties and personal space of any citizen is respected, and not to secure impersonal "legal entities" gaining in expense of natural persons. The Founding Fathers (or their wives) would have abhorred the very idea of a "legal entity."
You might want to watch the movie "The Corporation" to see how the original idea of protecting the natural person from power (then from that of the State) was turned up on its head now to protect multinational corporations who ARE the power of our day.
See?
I agree about individialé responsibility, THAT is a real conservative idea, not a neoconservative one. However, when you have a collective problem (such as racism) you cannot solve it by individual means. That would be a fallacy of thought.



posted on Sep, 30 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
I have a simple question for the OP.

In order to be right-winged, you believe in a small centralized government. The Federal government should essentially be minimized. In order for a government to effectively be fascist, it has to be large enough to overwhelm nearly every aspect of a citizen's life and powerful enough to basically lock them in a prison within the walls of their country. So, my question is as follows:

How can a true right-winger be fascist when the very definition of a right-winger is to want a government that is too small and lacks the power to oppress?

Every example of government oppression occurs on the left. Only when the government is large and powerful can it oppress the people. That's the idea behind conservatism: there is always liberty when the government fears the people.

The OP is clueless.

Not quite. Neo-conservatives stress small government, because neo-conservatism is a bunch of ideas sprang up in the climate of welfare capitalism - where - since FDR - the State was the leveller, the regulator stopping big money from getting all-powerful tyrants. Since neo-conservatism WANTED those tyrants to win, they started to promote the idea of "small government" AS AGAINST big corporations. Back in the Founding Fathers' time, government was restric ted and checked AS AGAINST private individuals.

Protecting the lamb from the wolves --- or the wolf from the lambs? Some conservative ideas were turned upside down - that is why the term neo-conservatism was coined. It is truly different from wanting to stick to individual values. Neocons want to stick to Corporate values.

What is it that a good conservative wants to conserve? I learned this from an honest-to-god Reagan conservative person. Values. Now what values a multinational corporation holds for the nation that is America? Not much these days. FAscisc authoritarianism, secrecy, armtwisting, and carrying out the capital to have work doen in third workd countries and try to sell it at home. How does this economc behavior rate with the original intent of the law, which was to protect individuals from powerful organizations such as the British Crown or even the new USA? IT IS APPLIED by them UPSIDE DOWN!

To paraphrase noted American singer and performeance artist Laurie Anderson: when there is a fire, do you think the firetrucks should drive TOWARDS the fire, or AWAY FROM IT?



posted on Sep, 30 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
Far too much BS for me to cope with here. Hitler, was a progressive, he progressed away from the policies of the Weimar Republic. He was not a progressive as a right wing pundit would describe today (Obama is a progressive, but not a facsist) but was a progressive none the less. Hitler constantly talked about how Christianity was meak and flabby and he would have liked nothing more than to do away with it, because that was where he was meeting alot of opposition. Even though the Pope did not condemn the holocaust, the Catholic church in Germany was among the most outspoken opponents to the "Life unworthy of life" policy. There is a major difference between nationalism and patriotism. Patriotism: devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty. Nationalism: the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations. The progressive liberals are promoting self hatred in order to further their agenda whereas the "facsist" right is promoting patriotism. I think I'll take the positive outlook over the negative one. That being said, I'm not here to support the neo-conservatives. They expanded the government, took away our civil liberties and lied about being "conservative". However, what the liberals are offering is much worse. I do not want, forced economic "equality", I want to take chances, succeed or fail and try again. Marxism does not work as an economic model, Castro himself admitted to it. There is no argument that the liberal progressives are marching towards socialism, the argument is whether you want that or not. PLEASE vote third party this November, Republicans and Democrats are equally reprehensible and I personally would love to see a Libertarian house and senate.


I agree with some of this, but having studied Marxism, I should say that it is not an economic system.
It was the critique of an economic system -namely 19th century English Capitalism.
Bolshevism in Russia was an attempted answer to that critique (possibly allowed to fail by the world elite) - a mostly tragic answer. and in Cuba. But you can see this already if you compare Marx (say the Economic-Political Manuscripts of 1946) to Lenin's sidenotes on the history of world philosophy. Lenin was a brutal thinker, simplifying everything to foregone conclusions. Marx was not.



posted on Sep, 30 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by slinger
reply to post by neo96
 


Communism,socialism,do not work and is a tyrannical way to govern people,just ask the dolly llama,the millions of people murdered buy Mao,or the millions murdered buy Stalin! look at how well its going in say Greece or France, then tell us how nice that way of government is. What we have in this country is the most free form of not just a government ,but LIFE IT SELF! granted some have been exploiting this form of government but that is YOUR fault you for the last 100 years have voted for the leaders we have that have put you in this position! And now you will give more control to the government? do you not see what you have lost and now willing to give away? The terms left and right come from the Romans not the french! in Rome if you were for the Cesar you stood on his right, if not you stood on his left thus left and right! The only thing correct in this post is YOU have let our government have too much power to let bankers set the rules! do you even know that your government gave control of our money to a bank called the federal reserve, and that bank IS NOT CONTROLED BUY OUR GOVERNMENT? THE USA CONTROLS NONE OF IT'S OWN MONEY! So no the right don't fit the definition of fascism,the left do they are the ones that want to control everything, the right just has let the corporate America buy there way into control ! The tea party sorry to disappoint you is for restoring the freedoms we have lost! taking back control from the bankers and politicians! the right of the government we have IS NOT PART OF THE TEA PARTY! they sure would like to hijack it but they are fooling them self in thinking we feel they are true republicans THEY ARE NOT! when we have control you will see rinos on the street looking for jobs but first we will take it from the communist and socialist first! If you think you are free you are wrong join us in giving freedom back to the rightful owners, the everyday people of the United States of America!


The Bolshevism and Maoism you rightly decry are as far from genuine Marxist ideas as the Inquisition was from the true intentions of the founder of Christianity.
The TP seems to be led by Fascist-by-the-book Hannities and Rushes, despite a few honest calls to the government to task which every American shoudl do.
You can wake up from a collective nightmare.
You'v been led down the spotted lane... by Rupert Murdoch.
Conservativism has been hijacked by thought terrorists. And they have TV channels.



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