It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The "Right" fits the Marxist definition of Fascism.

page: 1
26
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:
+9 more 
posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 03:58 AM
link   
en.wikipedia.org...


I believed that this definition of Fascism can be easily equated with the modern variant of Hard-Core Conservatism. I am not claiming that every Republican is a Fascist nor am I claiming that even the Hard-Core Conservatives fit every definition exactly.



Fascism in power is the open, terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of finance capitalism.



This is not saying that all Capitalism in control is Fascist, far from it, but rather that when finance capitalism that is forced through the state in favor of the wealthy is Fascism. In my opinion you could have a good argue in favor of that belief. This is known as Wealth condensation.



The historic function of fascism is to smash the working class, destroy its organizations, and stifle political liberties when the capitalists find themselves unable to govern and dominate with the help of democratic machinery.



To sum that up it is just selfish snobs who believe that unless things go their way on peoples' free will then they will force things to go their way.


Now it is time to break down the Marxist definition of Fascism into groups to help us evaluate the situation better.



Right Wing: Fascists are fervently against: Marxism, Socialism, Anarchism, Communism, Environmentalism; etc – in essence, they are against the progressive left in total, including moderate lefts (social democrats, etc). Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology, though it can be opportunistic.



The Right constantly attacks Progressives calling them such phrases as "A cancer in America" or calling Progressivism Communism and Socialism, which in the American context is seen as a very negative political labels. It is no secret that the political right of any country is opposed to leftist ideals such as the ones above, but to wage a 'McCarthy' style Demagogy upon these beliefs is outside of a political norm and is comparative to the way Mussolini and Hitler attacked these beliefs.



Nationalism: Fascism places a very strong emphasis on patriotism and nationalism. Criticism of the nation's main ideals, especially war, is lambasted as unpatriotic at best, and treason at worst. State propaganda consistently broadcasts threats of attack, while justifying pre-emptive war. Fascism invariably seeks to instill in its people the warrior mentality: to always be vigilant, wary of strangers and suspicious of foreigners.



I think everyone on ATS knows this to be fact. Michele Bachmann and Sharron Angle say that the Democrats are Un-American and Republicans attacked Liberals during the Bush administration for opposing the war(s) and criticizing the president, they called it Un-American. FOX News in particular, alongside most other MSM stations, are known for forcing a pro-war and pre-emptive strike policy and doing anything they can to cover up the facts to support a war and covering up the facts to defend the war and single out the ones who are opposed to the war(s).

Now the right is banging on the drum of Immigration and Islamophobia with the repeal of the 14th Amendment and attacking the controversial NYC Islamic Community Center.



Hierarchy: Fascist society is ruled by a righteous leader, who is supported by an elite secret vanguard of capitalists. Hierarchy is prevalent throughout all aspects of society – every street, every workplace, every school, will have its local Hitler, part police-informer, part bureaucrat – and society is prepared for war at all times. The absolute power of the social hierarchy prevails over everything, and thus a totalitarian society is formed. Representative government is acceptable only if it can be controlled and regulated, direct democracy (e.g. Communism) is the greatest of all crimes. Any who oppose the social hierarchy of fascism will be imprisoned or executed.



I believe the first sentence pretty much sums it up, our leader(s) are supported by the elite or ultra-capitalists and must obey their every command. Hierarchy is a scary thing when placed in the hands of governance and form of 'Big-Brother State' is depicted in the second line. I do not believe we live in a complete totalitarian state, but I believe that we are on a short leash and luckily for us as a society we aren't too willing to pull that far away from our masters.

Now some on the far-right are calling for the repeal of direct election of US Senators, while this was supported in the Constitution why are they so interested in restoring this now? They know if they can pull more power away from the citizens and place it in the hands of hierarchal government bureaucrats then they will have an easier time of keeping power. We have definitely not reached the last sentence of that quote, but with Liebermann calling for the citizens to lose their citizenship (i.e. lose their constitutional protections) that does not seem far off.



Anti-equality: Fascism loathes the principles of economic equality and disdains equality between immigrant and citizen. Some forms of fascism extend the fight against equality into other areas: gender, sexual, minority or religious rights, for example.



The right definitely hates when the Left talks about class issues and inequality, they will do everything in their power to label them class warriors and socialists. They are strictly against the government having any role, not even mentioning, the inequality in society.

While the right is not against racial equality, some are against gender equality such as the one up in Ohio a couple months back. They are opposed to Sexual equality and they are now starting to sound like they do not believe Muslims are equal to Christians and Jews, most still hold a deep hostility to Secularists/Atheists.



Religious: Fascism contains a strong amount of reactionary religious beliefs, harking back to times when religion was strict, potent, and pure. Nearly all Fascist societies are Christian, and are supported by Catholic and Protestant churches.



The Right is regaining their drum beat of 'the good old days' and pining for the return of strict morality and religion in society. Starting to question Separation of Church and State, attacking government for being too Secular, demanding religion get more tough and stop being so liberal. Many use religion to justify most if not all of their beliefs and it is a good use for manipulating the masses.



Capitalist: Fascism does not require revolution to exist in capitalist society: fascists can be elected into office (though their disdain for elections usually means manipulation of the electoral system). They view parliamentary and congressional systems of government to be inefficient and weak, and will do their best to minimize its power over their policy agenda. Fascism exhibits the worst kind of capitalism where corporate power is absolute, and all vestiges of workers' rights are destroyed.



This one has not been achieved or even remotely talked about that I have heard of. I will not claim that this is what they want, although I know many of the elite are opposed to Democracy and believe that corporations can do a better job making decisions than the people. I do know that Republicans love to use a filibuster, although I doubt you could consider that being opposed to Congressional Systems.

The right loves to claim that their interests are for the best of society by giving more to business, this gives the illusion that they are actually for economic competition. Like I stated it is merely an illusion, they are opposed to competition and prefer hierarchy forms of monopolization and concentration of power. This justifies them taking away workers rights and giving these rights over to the corporation, instead of treating worker and corporation without special privileges over one another.



War: Fascism is capitalism at the stage of impotent imperialism. War can create markets that would not otherwise exist by wreaking massive devastation on a society, which then requires reconstruction! Fascism can thus "liberate" the survivors, provide huge loans to that society so fascist corporations can begin the process of rebuilding.



This is the exact definition of this last decade, we went into Iraq and Afghanistan with a large hope based on a new market place and being able to harness their wealth. This allowed us to bomb them under the guise of liberation as stated above and then rebuild them, Nation Building, which our corporations would then go in to harness their wealth and make the money from construction projects.



Voluntarist Ideology: Fascism adopts a certain kind of “voluntarism;” they believe that an act of will, if sufficiently powerful, can make something true. Thus all sorts of ideas about racial inferiority, historical destiny, even physical science, are supported by means of violence, in the belief that they can be made true. It is this sense that Fascism is subjectivist.



I do not know if this has occurred on the right yet. But I do know that they have manipulated history to justify some utopian belief about American and that we are divine and meant for something more special than any and all other nations.



Anti-Modern: Fascism loathes all kinds of modernism, especially creativity in the arts, whether acting as a mirror for life (where it does not conform to the Fascist ideal), or expressing deviant or innovative points of view. Fascism invariably burns books and victimizes artists, and artists which do not promote the fascists ideals are seen as “decadent.” Fascism is hostile to broad learning and interest in other cultures, since such pursuits threaten the dominance of fascist myths. The peddling of conspiracy theories is usually substituted for the objective study of history.



We all know that many on the far-right are talk down upon Hollywood for its decadence and pervasive behavior and imagery, openly criticizing and attacking certain forms of controversial art as bad for this country; pornography, gays on television, nudity and cussing. Some far-right have even gone as far as to almost burn the Koran, which is obviously a book, because they considered it evil.

Many on the right criticize Liberals for knowing and caring too much about other foreign cultures and beliefs, considering them alternative. They call it elitism for be 'cultured'. Also many on the far-right love to bring up conspiracy theories that have little to no facts behind them. They are one of the most common form of conspiracist especially against some evil Left-wing plot and it is usually against the government yet their sole goal is to become the government.




I hope that you have enjoyed this thread and learned something. If there is more you would like to contribute I strongly urge you to do so. Also for informational purposes I consider the "RIGHT" to be Corporatist Democrats and Neocon Republicans, I consider "Far-Right" to be Radical Conservatives and the Christian Right.


edit on 9/20/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 04:02 AM
link   
You are correct. The whole left right thing comes from the french revolution and literally what side of the table the people choose to sit on. Fascism is fringe right.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 04:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
You are correct. The whole left right thing comes from the french revolution and literally what side of the table the people choose to sit on. Fascism is fringe right.


You are correct that is why the 'Left-Right paradigm' is not a bad thing, it was used to break the two groups of opposing views apart. Keep the moderates in the middle and the two extremes on each far-side. The Right supported Aristocracy, the Church, Monarchy and Hierarchy. The Left supported Republicanism, Secularism, Constitutionalism and Decentralization.

These core tenants are still noticeable in most Western countries, excluding the US.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 04:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Misoir
 

Well put together and totally correct.
It's always refreshing to read a decent political analysis on here. All too often people mix up their (prejudice based) definitions of different political concepts, which ends up in irrelevant discussions. Informative threads like this are needed, and unfortunately rather rare.




edit on 20/9/10 by Movhisattva because: inserting 't'



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 05:05 AM
link   
Interesting -

Look the freedom of information act and observe who fought it consistently.

It is funny how the ideological rhetoric and the manifestation never sinks up, when it fails in practice it
is called being "liberal" because it was act perpetrated by governance. I would suggest the way to fix that
is to stop trying to govern???


It is also interesting that a sure fire way to enforce extreme conservatism would be
to mismanage this country into the ground, beyond repair... I am sure a conservative might figure that out
one day - if that was not the last guys intent, oh wait, he was a liberal, I forget


In the end it seems that less governance is just a promo ad for enriching the rich as government is the only viable force that can obstruct a centralization of private power. It can also consolidate power, the right always point this out, yet it seems they are always the ones governing in such a fashion. The recent SCOTUS decision regarding corporate/union funding of elections really makes that clear, once again, governing contrary to the said goals of "liberty" buy consolidating power which is leveraged to warp government who consolidates power.
Double the condensation, double your fun,,, then bitch about it, then make it worse


Thats is like locking yourself in a jail cell, so you will not run the risk of getting arrested and going to prison one day.

Thanks guys





edit on 20-9-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)




edit on 20-9-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 05:35 AM
link   
reply to post by Misoir
 


"I hope that you have enjoyed this thread and learned something. If there is more you would like to contribute I strongly urge you to do so. Also for informational purposes I consider the "RIGHT" to be Corporatist Democrats and Neocon Republicans, I consider "Far-Right" to be Radical Conservatives and the Christian Right."

So would you consider Obama right?

what would you consider left and far left?



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 05:39 AM
link   
Well, according to the definition given by Marxism....that Fascism is against socialism, communism, and everything left in general...well, I am a Fascist. Glad I'm doing something right...pun intended.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 03:36 PM
link   
reply to post by Ignorance_Defier
 


I consider Libertarians, Socialists, Grassroots Progressives as "Left" and Communists, Anarchists, Environmentalists "Far-Left".



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 03:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Movhisattva
reply to post by Misoir
 

Well put together and totally correct.
It's always refreshing to read a decent political analysis on here. All too often people mix up their (prejudice based) definitions of different political concepts, which ends up in irrelevant discussions. Informative threads like this are needed, and unfortunately rather rare.




edit on 20/9/10 by Movhisattva because: inserting 't'



I tried my best to look at this from a centrist/neutral perspective. That way it does not upset alot of people who would think that I am saying "Everyone on the right is Fascist". Because that is definitely not what I mean.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 04:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Well, according to the definition given by Marxism....that Fascism is against socialism, communism, and everything left in general...well, I am a Fascist. Glad I'm doing something right...pun intended.


That is not true either. You can be opposed to any and all forms of "Leftism" that does not make you a Fascist, but rather if you fit into each of them categories.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Misoir
 


The Republicans and the Tea Party are fascists, bigots, and racists, as well ignoramuses who if elected to power will destroy the country.
Just say it and stop all the bs!



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:06 PM
link   
reply to post by inforeal
 


Proto-fascist is the better term to use to describe the Koch Brothers/Dick Armey Brigade. I make that distinction because the "Tea Party" in it's original form didn't advocate positions that can be seen as leading to Fascism. The Tea Party's original ideals are dead. What is left is the strong-arming of the Neo-Cons. I think "proto" is the better term to attach as these ideals could lead to Fascism if acted upon, but they won't do it. The "Tea Party" faithful are going to be stabbed in the front when they do get to D.C. I think it's all just pandering. It's a way to distance themselves from the Bush era. Repackage Coke as Pepsi or something of that nature. Those who believe it's real are fools, but I'm used to seeing people in this country getting fooled.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:27 AM
link   
in my opinion you just described the left more than anyone on the right.

and when people say "republicans are fasctists,bigots,rasicsts and ingoramuses"

they are describing themselves

where is your acceptances
where is your tolerance

of those people beliefs, ideals or values eh

and to get to the last point decades of social programs or entitlements that have led to the destruction of this country take a good look at where this coutnry is today.

how much have all those entitlements just done for the american good.

last time i checked hitler was fascist and hitler grew to power by that rampant beleif in "social justice" and we saw where that led to.

nay the right isnt close to being fascist but fascism is on display every day in america with threads like this

and character assasinations of anyone being on the rights viewpoints.

that is racism
that is bigotry
that is fascism

murder ideals and replace them with you own.

anytime you people refer to the right you are talking about people of race,color and creed and culture different than your own.


there is no intellectual honesty in this thread whatsoever


edit on 21-9-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:51 AM
link   
reply to post by neo96
 


Intellectual honesty to you is Glenn Beck, which is obviously where you learned that Hitler supported Social Justice.

I am most definitely not a Fascist in any form of the word. Try critical thinking and re-examine the post from a point of view that is not absolutely partisan. You claim that all on the Left who even mutter the word Right in a negative manner are Fascist yet I did not state that neither you nor any particular person on the Right is a Fascist nor did I state that everyone on the Right is a Fascist. I merely stated that many on the Right, including some Democrats, exhibit Fascist qualities.

If you would prefer that knowledge not be spread or debate not be open because you believe that argument is wrong that is not my problem, I asked people to contribute to this thread not throw around accusations that the Left is Fascist. How about some constructive criticism or providing some factual evidence for debate, I would welcome that.

Also in regards to the Welfare state, there has been nothing more powerful in fighting against concentrated wealth and power than the Welfare state. It has provided millions of people with the assistance that they need with not just sustaining life but spurring upward mobility in a society in which the elite believe that all public policy should be aimed at making their lives better at the expense of everyone else.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Misoir
 


and there are many people on the right who are not fascist.


and your title of this right is THROWING the assertion that every one on the right is a fascist

the only people you have something negative about are right wingers never anyone else.

and who i watch or listen to is none of your concern

and if you do not want to hear what i have to say read over or put me on ignore.








edit on 21-9-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:33 AM
link   
I would like to say that I never considered it a possibility that the State would recall your citizenship to circumvent one's Constitutional Rights. Thank you for putting that up here, you have given me much to think about.

I would like to add that Marxism is pretty much dead as far as communists are concerned. At least in the circles I move in... So as far as the Right being fascist, well, that depends on more criteria then you outlined here. I would recommend everyone reading this thread to go here:

www.moral-politics.com...

I think this is a more accurate way to view the political spectrum because I find the Left-Right paradigm lacking. Also, you might want to take the test to see where you end up. It's short and you may just surprise yourself.

I would agree though, that looking at our current economic and political circumstance from an Anarcho-Communist perspective it would seem obscene. But, I think calling it 'more fascist than' would be more accurate than just making a blanket statement as it stifles debate, in my opinion.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:37 AM
link   
One Misor.....I know we have butted heads from time to time, not often though.

I really liked your post because it was sound, logical and backed by facts. What it has really done for me is to understand why my Conservative view is that of someone of the likes of Barry Goldwater. While not perfect, he is nothing like the Right of today.

Hopefully your post goes well.

I will be back later when I have more time to think about what you have stated and said.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 02:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Misoir
 


and there are many people on the right who are not fascist.


and your title of this right is THROWING the assertion that every one on the right is a fascist

the only people you have something negative about are right wingers never anyone else.

and who i watch or listen to is none of your concern

and if you do not want to hear what i have to say read over or put me on ignore.


edit on 21-9-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)




Regardless of what the title states as long as you read the whole OP the title would be of little importance.

Really? I never criticize no one else? I guess this thread never existed. My problem with the Left, where I called out the hypocracy of the Left.

I never said it was any of my concern I was just making an assumption which I believe was correct. Also I will not put you on ignore nor read past your posts on my threads, if you wish for me not to reply simply don't post here.


edit on 9/21/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:06 AM
link   
reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


I don't remember 'butting heads' with you, although since you are a Goldwater Conservative I don't doubt it occurred.

I assumed my biggest problem with this thread would be trying to make the clear message that this does not apply to all people on the Right. I don't think George W. Bush was a Fascist nor do I believe that Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney are Fascists either. I believe that we should reserve such a provocative title to those who outwardly express beliefs that generally align with those stated in the OP.

While I can think of a few who would match at least 75% of that in the OP I would prefer to keep that to myself since I am trying to keep this thread as neutral as possible.


edit on 9/21/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 03:19 AM
link   
Offering up some interesting counter points here, all the information that is posted is from Britanica.com

Make of it what you will

Fascism as a progressive phenomena




Britanica.com Those on the Left who have not yet been rhetorically housebroken (you know who you are!), or who have simply forgotten their manners, have a habit of referring to conservatives as fascists.

The insult is at once so over the top and yet so devoid of meaning that most of its targets tend to shrug it off as unworthy of notice. As long ago as 1946, George Orwell concluded that the epithet was an item of political juvenilia, with no substantive reference beyond "something not desirable."

Modern American liberalism, both in its early-20th-century origins and in its subsequent manifestations, betrays close family resemblances to European fascism.This is not to say that liberals have an affinity for storm troopers, lebensraum nationalism, or murderous anti-Semitism. "Milder, more friendly, more 'maternal'" than its Nazi or Italian predecessors, liberal fascism is less likely to grind people under an iron heel than to want to smother them in a nanny-state embrace.

Of course, this thesis will strike most liberals as preposterous and oxymoronic, and even non-liberals may find it profoundly counterintuitive. Yet the argument is worth attending to. If nothing else, it forces one to think about both liberalism and fascism in unaccustomed, provocative, and sometimes illuminating ways. To begin with, fascism is in essence a movement of the Left.
Its origins can be traced to Rousseau’s concept of the general will and Robespierre's terror. Coming closer to our time, Benito Mussolini, who formed Italy's fascist party, first won his title of Il Duce as the leader of Italian socialism, and even after switching allegiances did not become an economic conservative.[Note: Mussolini proclaimed that socialism was bred into his bones, that he would be a socialist until his dying days!]

In actuality, his new party's radical populism was far more akin to socialism than to capitalism. So, too, with the Nazis. Theirs was, after all, the national-socialist party, and their platform, which amply reflected that fact. They also rightly considered themselves to be social revolutionaries, as scornful of the established conservative order as they were of Marxists.


Read more at the link


edit on 21-9-2010 by ManBehindTheMask because: clarity



new topics

top topics



 
26
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join