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Is this 9/11 nonsense going to ever go away? ZERO eveidence but still pushing on!

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posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Wow -- something we can finally agree on; Let's put the Bush administration and some CIA spooks and certain people in Florida on trial.

Do you have undeniable proof, which can win in a court of law?

I don't think there is any.




posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by wcitizenI have a question for the many debunkers.
Are you interested in exploring the truth, or do you just want to be right?

Here is the problem I see. Are you presenting anything that is based upon truth? Why should I trust you?


Originally posted by wcitizenOn what basis do you, many of you obviously not experts, dismiss as rubbish the serious misgivings on the part of many of those on the 9/11 Commission, many senior military and many experts in relevant fields?


You people are not experts either. If you theorists are not experts, why should I take your word that what you are selling me is based upon factual evidence?


You see, that's what I mean. You haven't answered the question, your reply 'you people aren't experts either' Is just so predictable.

I never said I was an expert. What I am saying is that I take the trouble to really read and consider evidence from people who are - whether they are for or against the OS. I don't just dismiss it as rubbish.

I have yet to hear a debunker admit there is even any validity to the many questions raised by very reliable, professional experts in their field. Everything just gets dismissed out of hand.

Close to half a million people have been killed as a result of the government statement that OBL and A-Q carried out these attacks. I believe, therefore, that the government is under an obligation to reply to the questions being raised by, for example, those who resigned from the 9/11 Commission because of doubts about its integrity, the very informed questions raised by top military officials, aviation experts, etc.

Why does that make me a conspiracy nutter???

I'm not asking you to trust me - I am asking you to really give consideration to the various points of view and if you refute them, give a reasoned explanation as to why. Debate of that kind can only help everyone to discover the truth.

I am asking debunkers to stop treating those who have valid questions and serious concerns as nutters, or similar attitudes. Almost half a million people have died because of the OS, some of us care very deeply about that.

quote]

Second, those individuals who you are talking about are also theorizing. Since none of them were in the exact spot in which the planes made contact, those experts can only theorize on how things went down. Does that mean there was a conspiracy? No way.

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You see, this kind of logic is totally spurious. Yes, the experts can only theorize. And you know that is not the basis for the arguments of the truthers. To try to insinuate that is the only basis for the truthers' questions is dishonest. Do you really think that those who resigned from the 9/11 Commission, and who questioned the integrity of the investigation, did so simply on that basis. That's a totally ridiculous statement.

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It just means there are questions, which can only be answered by someone who was standing in front of the planes upon impact.
?[/quote

This is simply not true. For example, the authorities withheld evidence in a mass murder crime, evidence which would have answered some of the questions. They refuse to hand it over, they lose it, it got destroyed.

Many experts state that the government theory is actually a physical impossibility. Don't you think the government should explain such theories beyond reasonable doubt?

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Unless you are impervious to all things, there are going to be anomalies in the 9/11 Commission report.
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No, this is not acceptable. There may be some aspects of the theory which can't be proven definitively one way or another, in which case expert opinion from both sides needs to be studied and weighed up, to reach the conclusion of greatest probability given ALL the available facts. Any anomalies - eg. conflicting testimonies, physical impossibilities, statements which do not match the evidence available - these have to be investigated thoroughly and exhaustively. Evidence which has been withheld must be provided. Mistakes which were made on that day have to be publicly examined. Coincidences scrutinised.


edit on 23-9-2010 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



Since you believe the OS, perhaps you would be willing to give a reasoned account of why you believe it, in all its aspects, proves beyond reasonable doubt, conclusively that it is correct, and therefore stands as a justifiable basis for almost 500.000 deaths.

You see, I find it frustrating that some people spend many hours reading and studying the various reports and analyses, and so many of the debunkers come on here with little or no grasp of the facts, and simply dismess those people and their concerns as invalid fwith no valid argument.


edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 

So, professor,
are you saying you prefer the government's conspiracy theory over any other?
Perhaps you could explain how exactly our federal government has earned your trust. That would be a great start, at least for me.
Or, how you came to believe that two planes could destroy the entire WTC complex...how many buildings?
C'mon professor, how many buildings were brought down by two planes and a band of crazy, titty bar hopping, muslim fanatics? (your conspiracy, not mine).

I may be old school, but in my day professors taught the truth, or what they believed to be the truth. Are you old school professor?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
You see, that's what I mean. You haven't answered the question, your reply 'you people aren't experts either' Is just so predictable.

It is a logical approach. Do you take the word of a random stranger to be factual?


Originally posted by wcitizenI have yet to hear a debunker admit there is even any validity to the many questions raised by very reliable, professional experts in their field. Everything just gets dismissed out of hand.

First, are they reliable or professional people? Where is your proof that the people creating these theories are successful professionals in their fields? Show me their books, degrees, and other documentations? How are they viewed by their peers and other scholars?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
For evidence beyond any reasonable doubt about explosives in WTC7, see: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Except that there is no evidence at all in that thread, just a opinion that someone made up!

It would not stand up in any court, nor does it explain WTC 7 bulging etc, so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down!



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by wcitizen
You see, that's what I mean. You haven't answered the question, your reply 'you people aren't experts either' Is just so predictable.

It is a logical approach. Do you take the word of a random stranger to be factual?


Originally posted by wcitizenI have yet to hear a debunker admit there is even any validity to the many questions raised by very reliable, professional experts in their field. Everything just gets dismissed out of hand.

First, are they reliable or professional people? Where is your proof that the people creating these theories are successful professionals in their fields? Show me their books, degrees, and other documentations? How are they viewed by their peers and other scholars?



OK, you just won't answer a simple question.

Also, like so many other debunkers you demand 'proof' of this and 'proof' of that. If you had read any of mountains of information/analyses by dozens and dozens of professional, highly respected experts you would not even be asking that question.

It's the same old same old strategies at work here.

You haven't answered my questions directly, but indirectly you have. I conclude you're not interested in the truth, because you haven't even read enough relevant material to have an informed opinion.

You are using the same discrediting techniques whilst providing no reasoned argument of your own.
So, either you just want to be right, or you want to disrupt others' reasoned discussion.

So - I'm not wasting my time discussing this any further with you.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by wcitizen

First, are they reliable or professional people? Where is your proof that the people creating these theories are successful professionals in their fields? Show me their books, degrees, and other documentations? How are they viewed by their peers and other scholars?




Go find them yourself. Your ignorance of even this basic information exposes what you are up to here.




edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by wcitizen
For evidence beyond any reasonable doubt about explosives in WTC7, see: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Except that there is no evidence at all in that thread, just a opinion that someone made up!

It would not stand up in any court, nor does it explain WTC 7 bulging etc, so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down!



What do you mean by evidence? Please define it.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by wcitizen
For evidence beyond any reasonable doubt about explosives in WTC7, see: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Except that there is no evidence at all in that thread, just a opinion that someone made up!

It would not stand up in any court, nor does it explain WTC 7 bulging etc, so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down!


And where's your evidence that the WTC7 bulged so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down?
Come on, you criticse others for not providing evidence, where's yours?


edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by wcitizen
For evidence beyond any reasonable doubt about explosives in WTC7, see: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Except that there is no evidence at all in that thread, just a opinion that someone made up!

It would not stand up in any court, nor does it explain WTC 7 bulging etc, so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down!



edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




On what basis do you conclude that it wouldn't stand up in any Court? Please give a reason for that statement.


edit on 23-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Wow -- something we can finally agree on; Let's put the Bush administration and some CIA spooks and certain people in Florida on trial.

Do you have undeniable proof, which can win in a court of law?

I don't think there is any.



Undeniable proof is not what is needed, high probablility, proof of invalid statements and conclusion in the OS, all these things come into play in a court case.

You are taking your personal assumptions to be fact, nothing more.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
And where's your evidence that the WTC7 bulged so much that the fire professionals knew it would fall down?


www.911myths.com...

"Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse."

".Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.
graphics8.nytimes.com..."

"Fire chief Daniel Nigro says further assessment of the damage indicated that it was severe:

The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC Building 7]. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.
www.cooperativeresearch.org..."



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by zbeliever
Hey this is off the topic but I was in "recently post" and I saw there was 666 replies...so I decided to post and make it 667 to brake the bad luck....So one more thing 9/11 is the awaken ,to many of us, that we are being deceived...I don't understand to what degree,but it is obvious we are not always being told the truth...So it makes many of us question what else have they (TPTB) lie to us about...


I think you raise a really important point, and this is also why many of those who know we've been deceived will never let this drop.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by L1U2C3I4F5E6R
 


I always knew LUCIFER meant well. Hell he/she might not even be this evil creature God despises.

Thank you LUCY for expressing yourself or should I say playing devils advocate
Your a creation of God as well so I got to love you as well



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by JonU2
 


Please explain why this was an off-topic post: A steel beam vaporising during the collapse of the WTC is not part of an evidence discussion of 911?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by ritualmurder911

"bin laden determined to attack within the united states". what don't you understand?


edit on 23-9-2010 by ritualmurder911 because: (no reason given)




Said who?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Because those "other things" are not normally found in buildings and there is NO RECORD of anything close to what happened at the WTC to draw from.

Does that not eat the whole premise behind these 9/11 conspiracies? Since a terrorist attack on such a scale has never happened before, how can anyone say that this wasn't a terrorist attack? Unless you have an example of 'A' and 'B', we would not be able to prove definitively one way or another.


edit on 23-9-2010 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



No. Somehow you take something that is an issue, and say because it's an issue -- that's no problem. Do you not even notice your logic just SKIPS? It's like someone saying; "I'm a Christian because that is what I CHOOSE to believe." It's usually followed by; "Please don't tempt me with your logic again."

There was not much SPECIAL about 9/11 except for it being in the US and in our generation. The Canadians burnt down the Whitehouse when they invaded once; so the comment that "America has never had a terrorist attack on our soil" comes from people ignorant of history.

This new term "terrorist" is a word to make you stupid. What ARMY on the planet, didn't make someone scared. Have we been dropping "happy bombs" in Iraq and Pakistan and Yemen and Afghanistan and wherever else these days?

THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN HERE. No. It's usually not on video, that's true. We need a big shocker on video to move the lard asses in this country. The Spanish American War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War -- were all started with ADMITTED false flags.

Then you can read about OPERATION NORTHWOODS. Which was NOT a silly contingency dreamed up as a what if -- it was CANCELLED by JFK after the Joint Chiefs presented it to him. How is that "just kidding" after Bush senior engineered the Bay of Pigs attack and the CIA rented the boats from his Zappata Oil company? The Bay of Pigs used to have the code name "Operation Zappata."

So the crashing of planes into buildings to pretend the US was under attack is NOT a new idea.

>> 9/11 was a BIG EVENT, for people sheltered who grew up in malls and only watching TV news. Such events happen all around the world. We accidentally kill 10,000 people in America every year on drug raids. BP will have killed more people over the next ten years and not even gotten a parking ticket. Using Coal energy -- it's estimated that kills about 17,000 per year. These are acceptable losses to those who needed to have wars, needed to have a banking collapse, needed to steal trillions of dollars.

Bush and Cheney personally, are guilty of war profiteering, lies leading to war, embezzlement, offshoring of funds for millionaires and trading with the enemy during a time of war. Bush may have even OK's the selling of nuclear secrets to Turkey so that Iran and North Korea could get them -- if Sibel Edmunds story is correct.


>> WE should not have to PROVE the WTC fell due to explosive charges. WE already know that, Bush was responsible for war crimes. So let's hold a trial for this bogus "Al Qaeda war" that cost us trillions when it is for oil and resources -- and everyone with an active brain stem knows it. Let's hold a trial about the Geneva Conventions and Bush's minions working to subvert it -- which breaks foreign treaties. I mean -- there are about half a dozen treaties I know of that he broke.

There has been no Justice since 2001 -- and 9/11 made it possible. Proving 9/11 to me is like saying I need to make sure that Ted Bundy killed that 13th Girl after the other 12.

Seriously? An enemy of the mob ends up dead. We still are talking about the MOB here. You know -- the guy who's dad sent weapons to Iran in order for them to keep hostages and he paid for it with Cocaine shipped from Noriega's back yard to Arkansas, Florida and other CIA air strips?

How about reading about "The SS Poet" sometime and get back to me; that was the boat that "allegedly" took the weapons to Iran -- but it sank with all hands.

There are dozen's of crimes of Bush and Cheney that would give a normal traitor a few lifetimes of prison. We went to war in Iraq on a bogus premise and about a million people are now dead or deformed. What more do you people NEED to get suspicious?

>> I have to wonder if people have a mental block, are morons or are working for the bad guys and paid to blog -- I really can't understand why WE HAVE TO PROVE 9/11 WAS AN IMPLOSION. There was a cover-up, just like with Watergate. What happened? The Republican Congress investigated. Why? Because Richard Nixon created the EPA, FDA and started doing things domestically that would help the working man stay healthy.

I'm sure you THOUGHT I was going to say; "He was a crook." The powerful don't get taken down for being crooks. They get taken down for not going to war, for helping the Middle Class, and for INVESTIGATING where they are not supposed to. Justice is for someone holding up a liquor store -- not for the Gordon Gecko's of the world. -- That's what you guys are fighting for; not some idea of a Noble America being attacked -- for NOT INVESTIGATING.

We invaded Iraq because Saddam was so bad. And you know what you didn't notice? We switched sides. The group that was helping us at the start of the war, ended up being "the enemy insurgents" that we were attacking. Do you think that's noble? Do you wonder why you don't know how that happened or missed the TV show? Or are you satisfied that "America is good" and it's OK with you that some Persians get screwed by their allies?

People in America don't give a damn about Iraqis and they don't give a damn about honor or the truth -- that's all I'm fighting for, and YOU GUYS, are saying we have to prove everything before we can even LOOK. You are for secrets, and for shutting up and doing as you are told.

Any LEADER around the world who doesn't agree 100% with our Agenda -- or the TRUTHS we hold dear is called crazy -- and nobody thinks another thing about what they have to say.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by skeptic_al

Originally posted by TVeducated
reply to post by L1U2C3I4F5E6R
 


If you believe the official storey, I truly feel sorry for you as you truely are brainwashed.

No need for a second line.


Ya see, now that's what really grinds my gears.
911Followers, always say your with us or against us, No wait that was Bush
Your with us, or your Brainwash by a Government.

I could argue that 911Followers are Brainwashed by Youtube, but I'm Not.
Instead I'm only going to ask ONE word, ONE
Why?

So far, I haven't heard any responses that make sense as to why.
Why?, as pretense to Invade Iraq. So they Invaded Afghanistan to find someone that didn't cause it but to throw people of the track and then on to Iraq. So, Why?, Iraq. What has the Government gotten out of Iraq after 7 years. Haliburton Building Contracts. And of the Countries in the World with Dicttators, the US Government really really cares about the safe-guard of Iraqies, come-on. Oil you say, Ok so No Oil goes out of Iraq without the USA's Okie Dokie, but your still not getting any special insider deals. No Cheap Oil, you're still paying too much for it like everybody else. So Haliburton then, the Government wires the Entire WTC with Explosives and destroys the Entire WTC Center, Invades two Countries just to give Haliburton more Work?. I Could mention the Israeli Influence, they orginsed all this just because of their fear of ONE MAN, Saddam.

Why?
Somebody throw me a Frick'n Bone here.....







Here's a bone:

9/11 Staged to Derail ONI Investigation of Nazi plunder.
www.citizensforgovernmentaccountability.org...




posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


My post was removed as being "Off Topic" when I merely made the point about seeing photographic evidence of a steel beam vaporising during the WTC collapse? How could that happen due to jet fuel and pancake collapse?



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Irreguardless of what is being said the fact is there are just to many question being ask, that are avoided, slufted off, or totally disreguarded, sure maybe this could happen once in a blue moon but there's not that many blue moons, and there never will be. Time for these liers to answer some qustions.

Hey, you know what this reminds me of, well this guys girl friend caught VD, and he told her she had caught it when they had gone horse back riding. The funny thing is she believed him.
Well this is a perfect example of how nieve some people are like the ones that think that some extremist Muslims put 9/11 together.

ANd they think the US government would not commit genocide, thay have it in writting, kissinger they did it.

I believe it was Lincoln that said if the Government is broken fix it, if you can't fix it, replace it.




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