NASA discovers brand new force of nature

reply to post by Phage


i would like to quote zorgon

Now NASA is quite familiar with various plasma phenomena in Space and the danger they present... Imagine the Shuttle gathering electrons as it flies through the ionosphere and gets close to the ISS... if they didn't have a system in place to remove that charge.... ZZZZAPPPPPPP

a second picture may help




this is know about from nasa (aparently)

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

I should clarify something I said earlier though. Though various means, a satellite can develop an electrostatic charge in areas of its surface and interior. This does not mean that it has developed a net charge however. This charging effect is not long lived, when it reaches a high enough potential it produces an arc from one point on the satellite to another.


Well that was well timed.

reply to post by Phage


lol if i didnt know better i would think you were reading my post as i was writting it
there does seam to be a local effect when close to planets that project a magnetosphere
wheather this voltage presure differential is quickly or slowly disapated is one that i cannot answer
but i can ask a question
where does this potential voltage pressure leak to ?
does it disapate into nothing by discharging slowly into the vacum or does it disapate as soon as it leaves the influence of the magnetosphere

if it discharges slowly where is the charge going and could this energize the area infront of the probe?

xploder

reply to post by Come Clean


No, the particles are "blown out" and come back as the result of gravity. Or they collect into bigger chunks. Or they are swallowed up by planets.

The planets accreted from dust and gas just like the sun did. And then we've got the "oort cloud" and other chunks of rock around. So, unless it acquires "escape velocity" from the solar system -- most of the gas and dust blown off from the ignition of the sun is probably floating around the solar system if it is NOT already part of a planet or the sun.

Interstellar space is MOSTLY empty except for a few atoms per square foot -- but inter-solar space has a bit more "stuff" in it.

The FORCE bringing objects back to the sun or planet is "mostly" gravity and it's counterbalanced by whatever effects the solar wind would have. It might be that "lighter" colored objects, get more of a "push" from the solar wind.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by XPLodER

 

I should clarify something I said earlier though. Though various means, a satellite can develop an electrostatic charge in areas of its surface and interior. This does not mean that it has developed a net charge however. This charging effect is not long lived, when it reaches a high enough potential it produces an arc from one point on the satellite to another.


Well that was well timed.

edit on 9/21/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

AFAIK -- unless it interacts with ANOTHER object without a charge or a different charge potential -- a Satellite is going to KEEP it's charge forever. Just like it's going to keep moving FOREVER unless acted upon by the gravity of another object.

The "arcing" from one point of the satellite to another presupposes a charge differential and some sort of insulator between. I'm pretty sure than any exposed "metal" is grounded to the WHOLE structure and electronic components (except for antennas) are going to be shielded. So NO, I doubt there is any arcing going on.

IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE: a current needs a conductor to move. The same thing with heat. Even though space is VERY COLD -- a vacuum is also a perfect insulator for both temperature and electricity because it takes MATTER to remove it. Now "infrared" light, does allow heat to move away. But that's at a higher energy level -- so even though you are in the cold vacuum of space, you can get burnt up when facing the sun in an unshielded outfit. Why do you think they've got so much insulation on astronauts? They go from -150F in the shade to 200F in the sunlight just by rotating when traversing outside around the Earth. Heat build-up is a bigger problem than freezing -- but BOTH are a problem.


Ionizing radiation from particles striking a satellite probably builds up to a certain level of charge, and then "no more" than that -- as it would be greater than the average charge of any further particles hitting it. The average charge around the structure is going to be the same. Magnetism can differer based upon heat difference between the side facing the sun and in the dark. There is no "backscatter of light" in space, so you are either in light or in shade -- rarely in-between.

reply to post by XPLodER

Remember an electrical charge is not really "energy" as such. It is an overabundance of electrons. The charge either dissipates within the satellite itself if it gets strong enough (that's what can cause problems), or over time the "extra" electrons are picked up by the protons in the solar wind.

You've really been making me think about this. It's a good idea, basically what you're talking about is an (unexpected) ion thruster. But the main problems are providing (and maintaining) a sufficient source of ions and directing those ions in a particular direction (the spacecraft are spin stabilized).

reply to post by Come Clean


Animals do NOT defy gravity on earth. When they walk up walls (like a Gecko), they are using electrostatic principles of known physics. Or suction. Sometimes it's the advantage of being small. There is more than one way to "stick" to things.

Scientists have recently created a man-sized replica of gloves that allow for "Gecko-like" adhesion to a wall. They use nano-fibers and these gain a charge and each tiny fiber creates a temporary bond with the surface of the wall -- since there are so many, the weight is distributed.

And whatever ANIMALS are doing, is not going to equate to the physics of Space/Time -- it's pretty interesting, but they are not bending the laws of Physics -- I don't think ANYTHING bends the laws of Physics -- we just don't know what they all ARE YET.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Did Zorgon provide you with the source of the image? He can be kind of funny about doing that, he enjoys his little "secrets". I can't locate it and it's difficult to tell exactly what is seen in it.

I would think that if that panel is from a satellite, the damage seen is the result of a micrometeor rather than an induced current. The impact causes the release of charge separated plasma. That plasma can create a current which is probably what overloaded the panel. It's a completely different effect and does not result in a charge being built up in the satellite, the charge is in the plasma. There are thousands of satellites with thousands of solar panels up there. If movement through the magnetosphere produced charges in them which damaged their systems, they would not be as reliable as they are.

And again, there was an electrical current produced in the tether. That is not the same thing as an electrical charge.

edit on 9/21/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

It is a current. It, i believe, is a photo from STS-75 (the "tether" incident").

To the poster who asked...we are talking about a probe. If we tried to track its location in deep space, at what point would the temporal difference start to create anomolous data?

ETA: i can't believe you guys don't know about this. It has been discussed in exhaustive detail on ATS over the last couple of years.

reply to post by Phage


my thoughts are two fold
1. if you are encountering positive and negitive charge is equal amounts then the charge would be removed by the negitives and replaced by the positives(not sure of terminology)
2.if the charge was orinted with the positive at the front of the probe and the negitive at the rear then a cycle of attraction to negitive at the front disapating of charge and at the rear a collection of charge and a repultion

i guess the unexpected ionic thruster effect you metioned would acount for the theory
and as the amount of positives and negitives encountered vartied so would the speed differential

xploder

reply to post by theAymen

At the atomic level the atomic binding energy of the atom derives from electromagnetic interaction and is the energy required to disassemble an atom into free electrons and a nucleus.

See link below.

Yes, everything that contains magnetic particles, even trace elements, has an electromagnetic charge. These electromagnetic objects range from the Sun to the Earth, an asteroid, meteorite, human.....an Ant, ~Spring Water~ , just about everything that is made of 'anything' has a charge that is the result of that object in question comprising of these metallic substances or trace metallic elements thereof. For an atom to 'Be' it must rely on a covalent bond to keep it together. This covalent bond or atomic binding uses charged electricity in an chemically charged electro-magnetic way to keep it together.

Electromagnetic Gravity makes more sense though these are just words attempting to explain something that cannot be merely written but rather, understood. One may not 'see' electromagnetism at work yet they know of it's Force. Force Is Energy. The charged particles, or charged objects found in the cosmos affects the flow of Energy throughout the cosmos. So Energy, very abstract concept or 'word' is constantly in motion as creativity itself. The whole universe and I 'believe' the whole cosmos is Bipolar by design, an intelligent one.

The multi-dimensional 'cosmos' is not, will not, and 'should' not be understood by man or ET from what I understand. One can view any life form as a dendritic neuron of the whole as in one's nervous system, a dendritic component of a lymbic or endocrine system and so on for the 'other' systems. All is part of the whole and all affects the parts of the whole. One is Uno. You know.....? There are far too many variables at play in real time for anyone to understand the grand design of the cosmos.

Good deeds, thoughts, actions, organic foods, spring water, love, understanding All promote good energy and health. I see far too many folk far off course from their own paths of discovery. Many today serve another rather than exploit the gifts they possess inside. This must change if one is find any remote sense of Satisfaction.

When folks can learn to 'harness' the Energy around them in a positive way, existence itself will be more Understood.
Some know what I say.
Some stay where they may.
Night folks.

What if its not a new force of nature but in fact a clue to the true aspect of time where as space and time are not one in the same as Einstein thought but really time is a condition of matter and simply a result of the known forces of nature meaning that time as you leave a body of mass is slowing down the further you move away from it while for those on that mass time is speeding up

this would give the illusion of an object slowing down as it moves away from you. when in fact it is you yourself that is speeding up

but its just a theory

reply to post by Phage


i read somewhere that in the difference between light side and dark side of the moon is a potential voltage difference
if the front of the probe is in darkness and the rear of the probe is in sunlight then this may be a source to hold a charge for longer than normal periods

xp

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Come Clean

 

The "laws of gravity" say that there is a force between two masses which is proportional to their mass and inversely proportional to the square of their distance.

Tell me how an ant is defying that. Are you claiming that an ant is reducing or eliminating that force? I would like to see some evidence of that.

edit on 9/21/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

ok what if there are two identical masses...and one is more denser...would its force be stronger.

subatomic particles of these atoms play apart on their "pull force" not just mass...electromagnetics/dynamics

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


I am curious, as well, for the rest of the forum. I have asked many times, but don't really ever seem to get a response:

What is the temporal effect you would expect when an item is placed in "deep space", where there is less time dilation from surrounding stars?

well if they are in the area "inbetween stars" then i think that...if they are still moving at a velocity... then they will keep "bending" "into" a new stars "spacetime" and keep developing new constannts untill it is harmonis with that star..ie orbiting.

reply to post by theAymen

Density is only relevant as it affects the distance from the center of mass. The surface gravity of a dense planet is higher than the surface gravity of a "fluffy" planet because its surface is closer to the center of mass.

The force between two separate objects is not dependent upon the density of the objects.

reply to post by Phage


Jupiter's volume is hundreds of times bigger than Earths, yet its gravity is only 2.5 times Earth..

Why is that? Yes,I tried to google it first..All you get is Earths 9.8 equations...

Since it appears that many people have "jumped in" without reading the entire thread, here's a recap:

1. The original Telegraph story is old news:

By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent
Published: 12:01AM GMT 10 Feb 2002

(must've been a slow news day for 9msn news)

2. The "force" is Kuiper Belt dust slowing down the spacecraft

3. Magnetism is NOT related to gravity, the electromagnetic force and gravity are 2 of the 4 fundamental forces of nature. They are independent forces, although every mass has gravity, and some masses have magnetic fields.

Nothing to see here, move along.

reply to post by jdub297

1: Check
3: Check
2: Ummmmm. Not so much.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by jdub297


Yep, I did realise that much and posted the following.
Though I thought the dust in the Kuiper belt was still just a theory..

Apparently Ninemsn put this article up as a new discovery but in fact its 8 years old...

I have found one site with an explanation,


This paper shows that the anomalous acceleration of the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 in the direction of the Sun is due to the presence of dust in the Kuiper belt, which has been ignored in the calculation. These data provide the first direct measurement of dust density in the Kuiper belt, which is 1.38 x 10-19 gr/cc.



www.newtonphysics.on.ca...

reply to post by jdub297


haha cool!

im gonna work out how to make a hoverboard, with electromagnetics......lets go back to the future