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NASA discovers brand new force of nature

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posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by theAymen
i think i do friend....your two dimensional interpretations irratate me just as much as mine annoys you.


No you do not, you have demonstrated you do not throughout the entire thread, I don't know what's worse, your pseudoscience, or the fact you think it's true.


Originally posted by theAymen
what if these "basics" are fundamentally wrong


Then we will adjust our theories, however, the evidence overwhelmingly supports that gravity does not interact with any other force (in the way you are asserting they are).


Originally posted by theAymen
honur and contribute to this field, if this is your field theN you owe it scrutiny untill you can SEE the FACTS as clearly as the person who stated it.. because i dont..


I have looked at the facts, I have also used Einstein's field equations to calculate the curvature of space-time.


Originally posted by theAymen
the model of gravity (below) shows mass.... "sitting" on a "two dimensional" flat space!!!!
WTF!!!


Thank you for confirming your scientific illiteracy. That is a visualisation of the curvature of space-time on a 2 dimensional plane, with only an x and y axis. It is only used to help visualise the curvature of space-time.


Originally posted by theAymen
POLARITY OF THE SUN PLAYS A PART....ITS NOT JUST GRAVITY..according to Newtons law of gravity WE SHOULD OF HIT THE SUN YRS AGO.


No, this just demonstrates that you do not in fact understand the basics behind the standard model.

1) The polarity has nothing to do with it.

2) Electromagnetism has nothing to do with it.

3) No it doesn't, please read a high school text book to find out why.


Originally posted by theAymen
or HOW DOES THE MASS... BEND AND EFFECT THE SPACE AROUND IT..ELECTROMAGNETICS??


No, mass generates a gravitational field which curves space-time. It is not electromagnetism. According to your logic, mass which does not produce an electromagnetic field does not produce gravity?




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
have a go at coming up with a new theory instead of pushing the clasical "you dont know what your talking about"
or "dont try because you dont even know"


Ok. The satellite is being effected by the lack of bananas in outerspace.

I only said what I did (although it did sound a little too aggressive, which I did address in my post) because they continued to use pseudo-science despite me and several others correcting on their misunderstanding of some of the basics of physics.

Just because there is one unknown, does not mean all of our understanding is wrong.

My comment was not on their theory, but on their scientific illiteracy.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


so instead of me tyring to explain gravity by saying:

the earth is "sitting" on a "2 dimensional" flat space.

TheAymen would say

the earth is "in" a " 4 dimensional" space.

then how would i go on to agree with newton and leave out electromagnetic/dynamics



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by theAymen
reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


so instead of me tyring to explain gravity by saying:

the earth is "sitting" on a "2 dimensional" flat space.

TheAymen would say

the earth is "in" a " 4 dimensional" space.

then how would i go on to agree with newton and leave out electromagnetic/dynamics


Your picture is sitting in a 2 dimensional plane.

The earth is in a 3 dimension plane, not 4. There are only 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension. So it would be 4 space-time dimensions and only 3 'space' dimensions.

Newton is obsolete. We now calculate gravity with general relativity.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


lol that is classic thank you for the banana theory
i must admit it adds something to the discusion
a bit of levity is whats required

nothing can be asserted as fact here (well some can)
but most of what we know is predicated on theorys that do not explain the totallity of space
there is room for both partys to have an opinion without declearing 100% i am right

truth is the is no way of proving half of what is acepted by science

but it sounds convincing with the edidence we choose to put forth

try another theory this time use your classical training and science backround to make a convincing argument

it is fun to try

xploder



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by theAymen
 


why are we discusing netronian physics when there is possably a force unexplained by that feild ?
please your theorys are more relevent to something that cannot be explained with clasical models

there is no one size fits all if you are being attacked for you theory
do what i do just post another then another

i personally think that scientific dogma can hold back science
yes we need to base our thoughts on fact but debating the small picture means your not looking at the big picture
dont be offended by classical p.o.v

xploder



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:16 AM
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I think it is hydrinos slowing down the probes -- hydrinos are also suspected to be responsible for dark matter.


edit on 21-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by Jerry_Teps


No, this just demonstrates that you do not in fact understand the basics behind the standard model.

1) The polarity has nothing to do with it.


i think it does. no planet orbits the sun around its north or south axis (i believe the sun has an axis as well....enjoy)



2) Electromagnetism has nothing to do with it.


in terms of the sun??? what about electromagnetic radiation?? does it play a bigger role.....
or just nuclear fusion????...
what about including nuclear fission on a subatomic level....?? could explain the change in the halflife decay rate changing



No, mass generates a gravitational field which curves space-time. It is not electromagnetism. According to your logic, mass which does not produce an electromagnetic field does not produce gravity?


yes i agree...but what stops objects from crashing into this mass....only smaller objects seem to crash but larger objects seem to just orbit...magnetic attraction????

gravity as you believe is a "strictly attractive force where electromagnetism can work to attract or repel...
or BOTH......could this explain "orbit"

iknow E&M forces don't act on things without charge (i.e. neutral sums of charged particles or neutrinos )
Similarly, gravity doesn't effect massless particles (i.e. photons).
gravity is about a billion times weaker than the E&M forces...is it electromagnetics that allow mass to have a gravitational field...ie it gives mass something to bend???

thank you


edit on 21-9-2010 by theAymen because: (no reason given)




edit on 21-9-2010 by theAymen because: (no reason given)




edit on 21-9-2010 by theAymen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:42 AM
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to add..

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH MASS & DENSITY NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT HERE as well

what allows mass to become more dense...electromagnetics...



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


Scuse me , but on a general point, you cannot say that non spatial dimensions have nothing to do with this . The speed of light alters around black holes because the gravity is so utterly huge, and many physicists have speculated that time itself would not function normaly around a black hole due to the insane nature of what happens in and around them.

No matter which way you look at it, the dimensions are linked, part of the same whole, and none are unaffected by what affects the others. Any other conclusion is deliberate stupidity.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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it could be as simple as this:
my guess is, with as much debris and gases out in space, all it takes is for the probes to smash into any small object not easily visible to change it's course. and it may probably only take an object the size of an 8-ball travelling at a constant velocity. space is vast. with any random debris flying as a result of past collisions of meteors or what not, there is sure to be more than just one piece of debris that these probes could be colliding with

its too soon to come to the conclusion of a new force without considering that we can't see every small piece of rock floating out there



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:51 AM
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It's as if nearing the heliopause has the outcome that the outside solar winds from other stars are exerting increasingly greater pressure opposing the outward motion of the probes and 'drag' is the best description for what's being observed here. Will it be enough to eventually stop the probes is the question and, if that is the case, we either need a much higher initial velocity to 'coast' across or a little corrective propulsion along the way at regular intervals.

Makes sense to me at least



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by theAymen
i think it does. no planet orbits the sun around its north or south axis (i believe the sun has an axis as well....enjoy)


Because that is the way the solar system accreted.



2) Electromagnetism has nothing to do with it.



Originally posted by theAymen
in terms of the sun??? what about electromagnetic radiation?? does it play a bigger role.....
or just nuclear fusion????...
what about including nuclear fission on a subatomic level....?? could explain the change in the halflife decay rate changing


Radioactive decay has nothing to do with gravity.


Originally posted by theAymen
yes i agree...but what stops objects from crashing into this mass....only smaller objects seem to crash but larger objects seem to just orbit...magnetic attraction????


en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by theAymen
gravity as you believe is a "strictly attractive force where electromagnetism can work to attract or repel...
or BOTH......could this explain "orbit"


No, general relativity explains it quite aptly. Electromagnetism does not and cannot explain the orbit of the planets.


Originally posted by theAymen
iknow E&M forces don't act on things without charge (i.e. neutral sums of charged particles or neutrinos )
Similarly, gravity doesn't effect massless particles (i.e. photons).
gravity is about a billion times weaker than the E&M forces...is it electromagnetics that allow mass to have a gravitational field...ie it gives mass something to bend???/quote]

No, gravity does in fact act on massless particles.

en.wikipedia.org...

No, because objects without an electromagnetic field still produce a gravitational interaction.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 05:53 AM
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edit on 21-9-2010 by Jerry_Teps because: Deleting inaccuracy.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


Electromagnetism is responsible for almost every action we encounter in our daily lives.

A pressure chamber would not even exist if it wasn't for electromagnetic interactions.

For example, the compression stroke of a combustion engine would not even be possible if it wasn't for the electromagnetic atoms of the piston repelling electromagnetic atoms of air and vapourized fuel into a small area, making it more dense.



edit on 21-9-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


The force that holds lizards, hmm? Well I believe that would be something biological that the lizard has on it's feet and built into the design of the muscle structure as opposed to just an attraction created by a field affect.

van der Waals is more like gravity really in a field affect as opposed to centralized so it might not be the answer as to why the probes are beleived to be falling towards the Sun. Perhaps the data is being stated that way when they meant falling back into the our Solar System. van der Waals is considered the weakest force amongst the forces that attract one atom or molecule to the next one. It is yjr easiest bond at the molecular level to break. What I was speculating about is the gravitational force of the sun does have a breaking point where other forces can take affect and a gravity like affect of the whole system will come into play at some yet to be determined distance past Pluto.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne
reply to post by Jerry_Teps
 


Electromagnetism is responsible for almost every action we encounter in our daily lives.

A pressure chamber would not even exist if it wasn't for electromagnetic interactions.

For example, the compression stroke of a combustion engine would not even be possible if it wasn't for the electromagnetic atoms of the piston repelling electromagnetic atoms of air and fuel into a small area, making it more dense.

So, stop trying to be a know-it-all or you will be caught in an error.


Your right, I wasn't thinking for a second. I was thinking of something else...

My point is that electromagnetism is not gravity, which is what the other poster believes.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


Lizards have little hairs on their feet to help them climb walls. These little hairs increase the surface area that comes into contact with the walls. This increased surface area causes high levels of friction to take place which allows the lizards to stick to the walls.

Friction is caused by electromagnetic interactions between atoms and molecules.

All atoms and molecules have a weak north and south magnetic pole. All atoms and molecules are magnetic.


edit on 21-9-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne because: fixed typo



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jerry_Teps
My point is that electromagnetism is not gravity, which is what the other poster believes.


Mainstream science doesn't know what gravity is. They only have equations which vaguely describe how it acts. In fact, they don't even know what magnetism really is.

In my studies, I have found that gravity just may be a form of magnetism. Just as I believe the strong force, weak force, and electromagnetism are all just different forms of magnetism.

In reality, there are only two forces; Attraction and Repulsion. These two forces are created in many different ways, and have been named many different names based only on how they are created and manifest themselves.


edit on 21-9-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


It may be that it's one force and the mechanics are merely describing parts of that force. Perhaps the Jedi's were right after all?



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