I'm going to jump right into this, and whether or not this goes well, I am in NO way intending to offended or belittle anyone's beliefs. I am what I would consider an open minded individual, and am not judging anyone's path or way of life. I will show the up most respect for those who choose to post to this thread, and ask that I receive the same respect. Now with that said, here it is....

I have for the most point considered my self agnostic. I do not claim a religion, nor do I deny that a supreme being may exist. What I do believe is that we have been to far off the path that was intended, for their to be an easy explanation of what a creator may have had in store.

There are many, many things that have come to light in both the time of the beginning and now. What was possibly relevant 50 yrs ago, is not relevant now, so why should something thousands of yrs old be any different?

I am fully aware that most that have been religious most of their lives, were bought up that way, an that sometimes, fire and brimstone in the mind of some, can be a very scary thing. There are also others that have veered off that path, and have been asking questions.

Now this finding of some that are very religious and those that are not, I think is a little more complex than what we think. IMO some of us, that maybe have more questions and prefer to go the route that is more comfortable is for a particular type of person, regardless of upbringing.

This may be for a particular part of the brain, or the senses which sometimes cannot be explained. I don't think that its heresy, or rebellion, but evolution. How can some people have strict religious upbringing and become atheists, and scientist become christian's that also believe in creationism?

I don't think that this by accident. I think that this is a sort of weeding out. Now, on which side, well I don't know, and I am not afraid to say that I don't, but I am also not afraid to say that I don't think that its entirely wrong to be on the fence instead of choosing a side.

What if knowledge wasn't just about god, but about not being fooled by man? Enjoying what our creator created us for, and the weeding out of those who choose not to. If the biggest delusion was for the devil to trick the world, what better way to do it, then convince them hes god?

This is NOT bashing anyone, but conveying a point that asking questions, and deciding that something just cannot be explained, should not just be for the apostates (hate that word), but for the ones that decided that some of the things that are taught, give us no way to win.

How can we not sin? How can we not do wrong? Its a never ending cycle, and I don't think that atheists or agnostics think that it seems like a logical focal point, in something that is to promote forgiveness.

If we are to believe that jesus died for the sins of others, why was there no start over point? The very next minute crucifixions were happening, people were stoned, and life went on. Why wouldn't the story of the flood, not be the start over point? If Noah was sparred by god, why would his children, mind you, just a hand full of people left, why wasn't everyone worshiping Noah's god?

If there is no do over, how do we start anew?

I feel in my soul that if there is a time for me to answer to a higher authority, that I can proudly say that my problem wasnt the story, but those who wrote it.

I had love for my fellow man, but did not think that man had the capability speak on my behalf. Or on theirs.

That my search was not over till the end, that excepting the mere writings of one, does not complete what I would think was my right to know the difference between right and wrong.

And most of all, If I was wrong, then I would deal with any consequence that would come my way, with a clear conscience that I had in my heart what I thought I was created for.


Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. I will point out that this isn't a battle between those who are religious and those who are not, but the point of the individual that has posted this thread... and that is me.

Peace, NRE.

I like your approach to this thread, very open.
I was raised christian, and still feel that "tug" from time to time. I too, have always wondered why many say that Jesus died for our sins, that he now holds the key to the gates of hell, and that salvation can be reached through him. Well, like you said, people were still getting crucified, tortured, and suffering never ceased after his death I always thought that we should be experiencing some of that salvation in our personal lives once we had accepted him, but the pain persists, Hell is still here, and where is Jesus? All I have is a hope that never shines clear.

So, what does that mean? Was it all for nothing? Perhaps those Romans altered the bible? Deified a Man who spoke The Truth, and made sure to mention that he was crucified for doing so? Why would they do that? To make us fear any message of love? Fear authority? Teach us to pay Caesar his "dues?"

I think I know why people look to The Bible for answers, it's because, deep down, I believe these people want someone to know. Somebody to have gotten it right, to have preserved the message and meaning of Life. They may want someone to tell them that they have seen the path ahead. A lot of people want guidance from a higher self/being. They want reassurance that everything is going to be ok, that there is nothing to worry about, that life is something to be enjoyed, cherished, that one should live in peace and harmony as they see fit.

I think the best thing that a person could do for themselves is to simply feel comfortable in who they are, and what they honestly desire. The more and more we lie to ourselves out of shame, guilt, or fear of what others may say, the deeper we dig a hole inside ourselves to hide our souls away. BE YOU, everyone has a right to believe in whatever they wish. Myself personally, I believe in fairies, and I see nothing wrong with that.

WHY I?
TO BE OR NOT TO BE?
RIGHT FROM WRONG?
GOOD AND EVIL?
YES OR NO?
WHOS OUT THERE?

as a biological computer our programming was specific. question everything and be fruitful

"Could Asking Questions, Be What Our Creator Wanted?"

Well, if this is the God from the bible then, no.
The way I see it:
According to Genesis, God did not want us to know things, he wanted us to be ignorant.(The tree of knowledge deal)
"The snake" wanted us to see what was going on and basically told us "Hey, there are more things out there, you should see it for your self and "eat" from the tree of knowledge"
God found out that we were not ignorant any more and did not like us any more.

As for what I feel inside my soul (if that is what it is), is that we are supposed to ask and learn as much as we can before we die. I don't know why and I don't know for what reason but that is what I see many of us doing.

In my opinion, we have been granted time on this Earth by a creator of some sort. Who the creator is, and our purpose here remains to be seen. In the end, I don't think it's about following a book written by man, or living a life in step with the church. It's about living life with honor and love. When we pass on we will have to look back on our life and be held accountable for our transgressions.

Possibly some people will move onto to a "heavenly" place, but most will be reinserted into the mix as a way to learn what we need to learn . Maybe over a 1000 lifetimes we finally get it right.

Originally posted by Elieser
"Could Asking Questions, Be What Our Creator Wanted?"


According to Genesis, God did not want us to know things, he wanted us to be ignorant.(The tree of knowledge deal)

This, in itself begs the question, is the God of the Bible the same as our Creator?
If you will remember, it seems this Genesis God was not a singular entity, but a team. "Let US make man in OUR image."

Also, it would appear that the bible contains a myriad of gods, which along the way, through transcriptions and translations, all sort of merged into one and the same god.

Now, as for asking questions, I think that is a matter of free will choice. Sometimes one has to feel a stirring of discontentment in order to ask questions, and be courageous enough to face the answers that may shatter ones whole conception. Asking questions is not for everyone; some are complacent and have no need to know anything beyond tradition and routine and are quite happy. Others are thirsty for truth and have a craving and curiosity to know the inner workings of their society.

Me personally, I find that questions usually just lead to more questions.

Well, after reading the information on the links now some things are clearer.
I am not happy with what I read but it is what I have been thinking for a while now.
I also feel sad that if it came down to it and I was asked if I had to chose between the God or Lucifer of Genesis, I would have to chose Lucifer. We also have to realize that because someone is in the position of power it does not make them smarter than you or more prepared to make the right decisions. From what I can see, the creators were not perfect and had lots of issues.
What I am going to do now is to keep on trying to be a better person, being good and helping those that deserve it and I will try to show others the abuses that they are being subjected to and giving out leaves from the tree of knowledge