A Question of Faith

Okay, we're going to let our imaginations run wild with this one. And when I say wild, I mean really wild. We're going to violate all the acceptable parameters of public discussion, and we'll do it without a single swear word.

We're going to take a look at what happens when a honest, God-fearing, hard-working American drops the corpse and heads off to the great reward. And just to make it more of a violation, we're going to imagine that this person is you. Yep, we're putting you in that tunnel, as that light shines off in the distance and promises you peace, happiness and whatever else your Heaven features for the clean and right-living American person of faith. However, in this scenario, we're going to put a small hitch in the plot line. A hitch that most people on planet Earth honestly believe you'll be having to deal with.

Yes, lets imagine that for some reason or other, you are one of the billions of Earth’s human beings that have crossed the great divide only to discover that your god of choice isn’t there waiting for you. What will your response be? Do you really know? Have you even considered the possibility?

One thing you don’t want to succumb to is the Where’s My Cheese? (you can Google that phrase, by the way) infinity loop of desperate belligerence. This is where you refuse to let go of the idea that < insert your god’s name here > is delayed by < insert your reason here > and that he/she will be along any moment, as long as you keep the faith, and maybe even try to believe that much harder. After all, God could simply be testing your faith with a final pop quiz, and you wouldn’t want to blow it all on the last leg of the race. So, how long do you give this god of yours before you pick your bags up and start looking for a taxi? Or do you?

The Hell of Absolute Certainty (I have a variety of these catch phrases) suggests that you will never let go of your faith in what you’ve decided to be the truth, and that you will view whatever befalls you as a result of that dogged determination, to be a test of the strength of your faith, and nothing more than a test of your faith. The net result of this logical infinity loop is the devoted imprisonment of your consciousness (a prison hell of sorts) as you await a change in your status. And that change could be a very long time in coming. Especially in a realm where - it's been asserted - time does not exist.

That's right. With eternity as the forever of an unchanging now (yes, that is a pretty accurate one-phrase definition) when does the eternal now ever change from being the exact same and forever constant now? Answer – it never does stop being that same and constant now. Can you see the potential for an extremely unfortunate end in the case of a wonderfully strident display of faithful devotion to a belief that was simply never true to begin with?

But is that sort of thing even possible? I mean, wouldn’t a just god rescue such a well-meaning – even if somewhat mistaken – disciple? Aren’t we all worshipping the same god?

Here’s where the ugliness of this gets even uglier. What if – and remember, we’re all just letting our imaginations run for a moment – the entire notion of a human-thinking god, driven by human motivations and prone to human reactions, was just an invention of primitive people? Okay, I know it sounds crazy, and I understand all the arguments against such a notion, but let’s just imagine for a moment that this is what confronts such a faithful devotee as he or she crosses over to the great beyond. Would this absolute certainty – this gift of endless, unwavering faith – be of any help to this individual, if what is needed is the capacity to adjust to an unexpected situation that’s suddenly presented itself? I’m going to suggest that it wouldn’t. You see, the truth is that there is a reality that exists, and while perception is how we experience that reality, in the end, we have no dominion over what is real and what is not real. And we certainly have no impact over what is allowed to be either real or not.

And as for those of you who flatly deny the eternal nature of human consciousness, what happens when you discover (let’s imagine) that you’re still aware, and still in conscious existence, after they’ve stuffed your corpse in a box? Do you think you’ll be able to simply disbelieve yourself into non-existence? Probably not. You’ll be just as stuck as anyone else with a rigid preconceived notion, although not in the same way of being stuck as if you're waiting on a limo that's just not coming.

When you leave this life, what will you be expecting to see? What do you expect to hear? What have you decided that it will feel like? You can claim that you have no expectations, but the truth is that we all have an idea, even if it exists in the most rudimentary form. As intelligent beings that will definitely die, we all have taken a moment to address the inevitable, and most of us have a reasonably comfortable idea of what to expect.

Now – and here’s a tough question – what happens if nothing makes any sense to you at all when the crossing occurs? And I don’t mean that it looks different, or smells different, or your Jesus has red hair and freckles. What I mean is that nothing makes sense at all. Not even the way that sense can be made of anything that is, at all, familiar. And all you know is that you’re there without even the capacity to understand how to process the fact that you’re completely lost.

Of course that can’t happen, right? If so, someone would have told us. Isn’t that what priests and rabbis and clergy are all about? Well, that’s what you’d think, but they’re all busy contradicting each other, so what’s to say that they’ve got the answer? Then, there are the spiritualists and transcendental what-have-yous – what about them? Again, what about them? They don’t agree with one another either. And they certainly don’t agree with the priests, rabbis and clergy. Are you starting to see a problem here? I certainly am.

What has become obvious, is that the rigid expectation of religious faith – while great for getting folks to keep quiet in line – is not going to be much of a benefit for a large percentage of us human beings who are going to have to make the transition from corporeal existence to whatever it is that we’re each going to have to deal with once we’re done with planet Earth. In fact, faith just may be the worst restriction possible when facing that big transition. Ironically, it’s at that specific moment that most normal people – probably yourself included – will be leaning the hardest on their faith for whatever its got that can give them what they need.

And if you're one of the majority who's picked the wrong door to wait in front of? Or even worse, if there are those malevolently inclined few, who know exactly what you'll be expecting to be walking off with, and are there waiting for you when you show up? The downtown LA Greyhound bus terminal comes to mind, with teenage Midwest runaways dropping off onto the pavement with miraculous acting career awaiting them.

So, how does one prepare for the obvious future that we all face?

In the physical sense, it looks like worms for the body.

As to all other aspects of consciousness/spirituality/etc ad infinitem -
whatever, if anything, is on the "other side" or the "great beyond" -

it'll be a totally different experience than anything I currently imagine.

Rationally, given the choices presented by the world's religions in their depictions of the afterlife,
whatever is out there isn't going to resemble any of them.

gj

By faith here are you talking about one's pride? Pride is stubborn and will still believe in something even if their is proof to disprove it. If you cross to the other side and see no deity than that's what should be accepted in what we would call the now moment.

reply to post by NorEaster

And if you're one of the majority who's picked the wrong door to wait in front of? Or even worse, if there are those malevolently inclined few, who know exactly what you'll be expecting to be walking off with, and are there waiting for you when you show up? The downtown LA Greyhound bus terminal comes to mind, with teenage Midwest runaways dropping off onto the pavement with miraculous acting career awaiting them.
So, how does one prepare for the obvious future that we all face?

The physical body will die... but that realization is not considered until one has outgrown the juvenile concept of immortality that we all carry until about age 30 or so. After that, we begin to learn courtesy and responsibility because we really have no idea exactly when we will be called before the bench or exactly what we will be charged with.

Unfortunately, most of our worst transgressions occur before we are old and wise enough to consider our actions.

I suspect that upon my physical passing, I will be called to account for a number of events which, in my youthful stupidity, manifested themselves to cause harm or hurt to others. These things must be understood. If there is no genuine remorse or lesson learned, then the physical life event was wasted. Chances are there will then be a recycling or discarding... depending on the depth of the deed.

The melding of the spiritual to the physical is unique. It is a nursery for higher states of existence and perhaps leads to an evolutionary leap for both separately or together.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by NorEaster

 

And if you're one of the majority who's picked the wrong door to wait in front of? Or even worse, if there are those malevolently inclined few, who know exactly what you'll be expecting to be walking off with, and are there waiting for you when you show up? The downtown LA Greyhound bus terminal comes to mind, with teenage Midwest runaways dropping off onto the pavement with miraculous acting career awaiting them.
So, how does one prepare for the obvious future that we all face?

The physical body will die... but that realization is not considered until one has outgrown the juvenile concept of immortality that we all carry until about age 30 or so. After that, we begin to learn courtesy and responsibility because we really have no idea exactly when we will be called before the bench or exactly what we will be charged with.

Unfortunately, most of our worst transgressions occur before we are old and wise enough to consider our actions.

I suspect that upon my physical passing, I will be called to account for a number of events which, in my youthful stupidity, manifested themselves to cause harm or hurt to others. These things must be understood. If there is no genuine remorse or lesson learned, then the physical life event was wasted. Chances are there will then be a recycling or discarding... depending on the depth of the deed.

I will suggest one thing. Don't believe that any "spirit" can impose its will on any other "spirit" unless the imposed-upon actively allows the imposition. This means that in the realm of the eternal, nothing can dominate you unless you believe it can. And yes, it really is that simple.

In the corporeal realm, we are presented with bodies and circumstances of corporeal birth that can help or hinder our capacity to survive and/or thrive. We do not drag those limitations with us into the next realm. What we do drag with us is our programmed expectations, and if they include notions of heaven and hell, then guess what? We'll find our heaven or our hell, and there will be someone more than happy to provide it for us, and even manage it on our behalf. People don't change in the big transition from blood and guts to streaming consciousness. Some folks (and we all know someone like this) simply can't handle the idea of other people being free to be as they choose. These people don't change when they cross either.

Never forget the quote "In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Seriuosly. Never forget that. It will be the difference between one eternity and another for you.

..such grim ...
.. life repeats yes ..that is a fact ...and our souls are eternal that also is fact ..
.. but you live out your life .. chains of life over and over .. you are not one individual but many through out time..
.. you take on many faces and many life events unfold before you it is your choice what you do duing these lives if you continue to live with out faith and love for all of mankind you will simply repeat .. again and again through out time .. this would be closely conciderd as purgatory .... you all have a chance to reach Heaven ... even the so called Devil .. even with his mistakes .. he also had the chance to change .. he did .. but even with that .. his work still effects the course of time .. over and over again .. .. which tests the soul of man ... but with this test still comes salvation .. and the future to come...

My Faith isn't hardwired or rigid at all. I contend this to be true because it is Evolving within me and I am not the same person as a result. I have my "doors" open to new ideas and new thoughts as they enter me.

My Faith is not Religious, but it is Spiritual; my ability to take that which I cannot control and turn it over to a "Higher Power" builds onto my Faith.

You see, the truth is that there is a reality that exists, and while perception is how we experience that reality, in the end, we have no dominion over what is real and what is not real. And we certainly have no impact over what is allowed to be either real or not.

This makes no sense to me, of course we have an impact on our reality in this World. Influencing subatomic particles just by simply "viewing" them speaks volumes about our influence on the many levels and many layers of Life itself. So if we hold ourselves to our Faith then our Truth becomes our Reality in the end. We are exactly what we believe we are, and if you can see your future than that is the first step in creating it.

Our Death (Realm of Death) is of our own making, just as it is for our Living World around us. To instill "doubt or fear" could disrupt this process, and ultimately there are more than enough disrupted Souls to account for such a thing as what the OP is suggesting, but in the end we can simply believe otherwise!

If You (the reader of these words) are in doubt or fear of Death, or what it has to offer, please Forgive yourself now and let it go. Faith can change you and you can change your Faith. Push fear aside, push hatred, contempt, lies, and doubt aside because these are not the energies that sustain Love in any Realm.

"On Earth as it is in Heaven", this is the key! What a life represents in this World will carry over to the next.

Originally posted by Greensage

You see, the truth is that there is a reality that exists, and while perception is how we experience that reality, in the end, we have no dominion over what is real and what is not real. And we certainly have no impact over what is allowed to be either real or not.

This makes no sense to me, of course we have an impact on our reality in this World. Influencing subatomic particles just by simply "viewing" them speaks volumes about our influence on the many levels and many layers of Life itself. So if we hold ourselves to our Faith then our Truth becomes our Reality in the end. We are exactly what we believe we are, and if you can see your future than that is the first step in creating it.

Our Death (Realm of Death) is of our own making, just as it is for our Living World around us. To instill "doubt or fear" could disrupt this process, and ultimately there are more than enough disrupted Souls to account for such a thing as what the OP is suggesting, but in the end we can simply believe otherwise!

If You (the reader of these words) are in doubt or fear of Death, or what it has to offer, please Forgive yourself now and let it go. Faith can change you and you can change your Faith. Push fear aside, push hatred, contempt, lies, and doubt aside because these are not the energies that sustain Love in any Realm.

"On Earth as it is in Heaven", this is the key! What a life represents in this World will carry over to the next.

There is a foundational real, and a human being's perception - or faith - can't change that foundational real. To suggest otherwise is to demand that there be no consistency of structure or even the possibility of that structural consistency. You can demand it, and you can write about it, and you can sell the idea to others about it, but the evidence is overwhelming that the consistent foundational structure that sits at the bottom as reality exists, and is impervious to human demand.

Human beings - even the most enlightened human beings - are the result of that structure. They are not the authors of that structure. The only way that your claim can be defended is through semantics and blind faith in assertions that only those who claim to have this recently popular "knowing" thing seem to be able to verify.

Meanwhile, simple logical extrapolation is looked at as a failure of intellect, as a thoroughly redundant reality continues to lay the foundation for all this mental gymnastics and ignore the controversy of it all.

Reality isn't sexy, but without its immutable nature none of us would be typing our big ideas tonight.

I think I will pass on this Thread. It occurred to me that I am not seeing this on the perspective of Christian Indoctrination. I guess I missed the point.

Originally posted by Greensage
I think I will pass on this Thread. It occurred to me that I am not seeing this on the perspective of Christian Indoctrination. I guess I missed the point.

edit on 9/19/2010 by Greensage because: I changed my mind

Christian Indoctrination?

What has Christian theology have to do with the fact that existence demands a definitive reality? I don't even believe in the tenets of Christian theology. I respect the philosophy of compassion and sacrifice, but I don't even believe that a man named Jesus actually preached in Judea 2000 years ago.

Reality isn't a religious concept. It's a sub-structural necessity.