You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

reply to post by nixie_nox


That isn't the point to this thread.

Then why is it ok to do it to infant males with out their consent?

Every person that compares female mutilation to male with the arguement "girls die more often" or " it does more dmagae" have already missed the boat.

For one, there is NO female mutilation practiced by DOCTORS in the western world.

If there was survival rates would be just as high as male genital mutilation, and accessory damages would be minimized.

You are comparing an act carried out by a "shaman" in a third world country to a procedure carried out by a "doctor".

Ironically, male mutalation in the third world has a far higher chance of death than the procedure done in the first world...so the pattern fits nicely.

I quote "doctor" because circumsion goes directly against the hypocratic oath.

As for health and safety concerns...since the advent of soap and regular bathing practices, there have been no greater number of safety concerns circumsied or not.

Like any other part of your body it must be cleaned and cared for properly.

I understand where the tradition started from, but it is no longer required so WHY CONTINUE WITH THE PRACTICE?

And to whomever said you will get more falatio with a circumsised penis...well only in America. and maybe the muslim and jewish communities.

As, in the rest of the world, natural is FAR more common that cut.

Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

That isn't the point to this thread.

Then why is it ok to do it to males?

edit on 18-9-2010 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)

We take our kids to the doctor, get them up for school, and make them do all kinds of stuff without permission.
We cut hair the way we want and we dress them up, All without consent. Some cram religion down kids throats.
I'm telling you with skin, and lady's that it is better off gone.


I don't hear anyone saying we should not cut the cord at birth. There is your first gruesome mutilation.
Come on...grow a pair and get over this sensational bs

Who wants to see porn with foreskin?

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


Then by your admission, no medical procedure can be done on a child till they are 18. No shots, no doctors visits, nothing.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Again, Nobody should be cutting anything off of anybody without that person's permisson.

And nobody should be inflicting pain on another unless it's two consenting adults.

I am a member of several Human Rights organizations and have signed many petitions for the banning of female mutilation.

When I had a job (was outsourced to India August 31, 2010) I donated money to GHR, The ASPCA and still donate my time twice a month at a Food Distribution Center for the Homeless.

I don't just believe in woman's rights, but all humans, regardless of gender.

reply to post by SLaPPiE


I don't know what kind of female mutilation HE is talking about, but the one I know and read about is the one where they basically "remove" the clitoris so that females won't engage in extra-marital sexual acts, or at least, won't have the desire to.

reply to post by nixie_nox


None of those are surgeries for aesthetic reasons.

So no, I don't see how that correlates.

*Snip*

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reply to post by havok


The memory is there, you can't find it .

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
We take our kids to the doctor, get them up for school, and make them do all kinds of stuff without permission.
We cut hair the way we want and we dress them up, All without consent. Some cram religion down kids throats.
I'm telling you with skin, and lady's that it is better off gone.

None of this is altering their sexual organs with out their consent.

I don't hear anyone saying we should not cut the cord at birth. There is your first gruesome mutilation.
Come on...grow a pair and get over this sensational bs

The cord is cut so they can live. Why do you feel the need to marginalize my feelings on this subject?

Who wants to see porn with foreskin?

I don't know. I don't view pornography because I think it exploits male and female alike. I refuse to support it.

reply to post by stars15k


Very interesting post...............it sounds like they sort of finagled you into an additional medical procedure $$$.

Thank you for your post, it was very interesting and maybe young mothers to be should be aware and if they opt not to have their son circumcised, to explain this to the doctors and have it in writing before delivery time.

Something to think about.

Glad you and your son are okay.

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Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
I believe that circumcision plays a role in comprising men at birth by emasculating them on a deep psychological level. How can anyone argue that it is wrong for women to be sexually compromised but acceptable to abuse males?

Agreed.
The shock of being cut and hurt in this manner, so soon after birth, must have a permanent affect on the child's mind.

I believe it was also an anti-masturbation thing, so that boys would be less likely to touch themselves, and therefore be less in touch with their own desires and easier for religion to manipulate.

Btw, my 2 sons are in their 30s, are not circumcised, and have never had any infection or problems in that area.

I see it as enforcing a religious belief on me...
Nothing I can do at this point, but that's how I see it. That's why I think it's generally accepted in America. Because it's what the bible asks, that you give a sacrifice of your foreskin to god.. Yes. Seriously. And I think people in the past were just "Being good christians" and it became an accepted routine procedure.

Subjects and Methods. Circumcision status was ascertained by a combination of pathology reports, medical record review, and questionnaires for 213 adult male members of a large prepaid health plan who were diagnosed with IPC or CIS. Subjects and Methods. Circumcision status was ascertained by a combination of pathology reports, medical record review, and questionnaires for 213 adult male members of a large prepaid health plan who were diagnosed with IPC or CIS.

Results. Of 89 men with IPC whose circumcision status was known, 2 (2.3%) had been circumcised as newborns, and 87 were not circumcised. Of 118 men with CIS whose circumcision status was known, 16 (15.7%) had been circumcised as newborns.

Conclusions. Our results confirm the highly protective effect of newborn circumcision against IPC and the less protective effect against CIS.

The highest proportions of CD4+ T cells and LCs occurred in patients with a history of infection. Foreskin immune cells expressed predominantly the CCR5 HIV-1 co-receptor. Adult foreskin mucosa had greater susceptibility to infection with HIVbal than cervical mucosa or the external surface of foreskin tissue. Circumcision likely reduces risk of HIV-1 acquisition in men by decreasing HIV-1 target cells.

american journal of pathology







See as parents we have to make decisions all the time based on risk.


instead of basing decisions on knee jerk social reactions, you base decisions on medical facts.

Before making these decisions, how many of you did actual research, not into the point of the decision itself, but into actual facts?

You are taking a risk and forcing a decision on a child when giving them vaccinations. Did you do your research on that as well?

Fact is, a lot of males in the US get circumdcized. Including doctors, and the children of doctors. If it was truley the savage process that it is, why is the medical community doing it?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Fact is, a lot of males in the US get circumdcized. Including doctors, and the children of doctors. If it was truley the savage process that it is, why is the medical community doing it?

People in the medical community also commit rape. If rape is truly that damaging then why do people in the medical community do it?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


I think you misunderstood my post. I was so upset by the procedure and the lies even though I had a advice over the first child's surgery as there was a strong family history for needing it and he looked very neat, without much skin there, and if that continued with the size potential he would need it as an adult. But now I wish he had waited until he was an adult and 3 of my boys were not circumsized for this very reason. Its a big thing, very very big thing, and should only be done at later dates with full pain control. But to suggest that its a huge deal later on, when women go through horrible painful things, which I wont even go into, I can attest to freezing does work, and codeine and other barbituates help as well. So its not anywhere near as big a deal as a baby receiving nothing for pain control.

Originally posted by 19872012
This is one case where feminists can be kind of stupid. How can female circumcision be a crime against humanity and represent female oppression while male circumcision is just routine medical procedure? DOUBLE STANDARD!

I'm a feminist because I have fought hard for rights that women didn't have at the time.
I don't know why you you'd think that stops me caring about men's rights too.
My husband wanted our sons circumcised so they would look like him.
Seemed a stupid difference to me as kiddie ones are going to look different to adult ones anyway, so I refused.
No-one was hacking bits of my babies without a good reason.

My feminist friends didn't have their sons done either.

Originally posted by ShadowKnight322
reply to post by havok

 

The memory is there, you can't find it .

What? Maybe a hypnotist can find it...
I don't remember anything before about 4 years of age, and hardly anything at that age at all.
Now, on the sub-conscious level, I'm not sure.
Maybe it altered my 'male' mindset, who knows?
I don't think it matters at this point, because I can't reverse it.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Hey thanks for the extra info, I learned a little bit more about foreskin.
Whereas I thought it was just skin, you showed me that it has alot more nerves than I originally thought.
Now that I think more about it, there maybe something bigger here.





Like I said earlier, maybe it's a huge conspiracy.
Maybe Ab is right and it is making the collective male attitude different.

But hey, there's a plan for everything, I believe. Good or bad.