You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by Death_Kron


LOL!

It is almost impossible to discuss without violating TandC or veering off topic?

As a circumsized male, I can tell you that it is absolutely no different when it comes to how we wash (there is still stuff to pull back) and it is no different with how we masturbate (not confirming or denying my participation, lol!). It is a different look, and it is "less" stuff to pull back and clean. Obviously I don't know how different the sensations are, because I have only felt my version, but my version is pretty good! I can't imagine having more sensation in that area, I don't know if I would even want more?

Also, someone mentioned earlier how it seemed uncomfortable to not have that protection when wearing jeans. I guess if you never knew any differently then it wouldn't matter? There is no uncomfortable sensation. It doesn't rub or feel odd.

As far as STD's, there have been many studies showing that it does in fact have a benefit. Of course there have been plenty of studies that it has no benefit? Who knows, but if there is any potential benefit, then I am all for it. I still don't agree that there is any significant trauma physically or emotionally. My son only cried for a couple of minutes and then was playing happily without a second thought. Plus, I know plenty of well-adjusted circumszed males, LOL!

reply to post by getreadyalready


It is a little bit of a tricky subject to discuss

That's fair enough then if you believe it has benefits and I'm ermm happy for you that you can still "do the business"

The only thing I'd argue is do you not think your son should have had the chance to make his own decision on whether he wanted to be circumcised or not?

Circumcision is a permanent action and while comparing it to removing a limb say is an extreme analogy of the subject, comparing it to tattooing your baby without their consent is a little more realistic. Your performing an act that stays with that baby for the rest of his life and it's something he has had completely no say in...

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

I can assure you, coming from circumcised man,that it does not cut back on sexual pleasure either... So who ever believes that is just silly.

Were you sexually active (with another person) prior to circumcision?

reply to post by Death_Kron


True, and we did give it a lot of back and forth thought. Once it is done, it is done, there is no changing your mind. I can't disagree with that. It was easier for me, because I am circumsized, so I know that I am still happy and healthy with no complications. However, even for me the decision was a tough one. I can't imagine doing it to your son if you were not done yourself? I am sure that would be an impossible decision to make.

You also have to consider that if it is ever going to be done, it should be done almost immediately after birth. Deciding to do it later in life only gets more and more difficult.

Luckily my son turned out just like me, with plenty of foreskin leftover after the procedure. My brother's son had some complications and had to keep going back and dealing with the issue. I think he regrets the decision, but once it is done it is done and you just have to deal with what you've got.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I love your posts and I hesitate to disagree with anything you wrote because I know you have a great heart and an abundance of human kindness and understanding. That said...would it be possible to ask your sons now if they had control over the choice themselves would they rather they were not circumcised?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by InterestedUK

 

Not at all. I don't remember it. I don't suffer from it. Why should I care?

It's effectively the same getting your nail plucked off from slamming it in the door. it hurts like a mofo. You get over it. Sorry that I don't agree with your pretty tree and happy bunny view of the world, but pain is temperamental and a guarantee in life. I could hardly give a damn about it. I do not suffer from it. it is my religion. I will not care for the opinions of others.

If you had this done in a Jewish ceremony, it's likely you had much less cut off than is removed in hospitals.
Also, in a traditional ceremony, the child is not taken from its parents. The mother holds her baby, and is able to cuddle him immediately. Then he is passed around for everyone present to cuddle and welcome into his Jewish family.

If there's research on the subject, I bet you'll find that the different circumstances make a huge difference to the long-term impact one the child.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Well that was an honest and fair post, so have a star from me

I'm not exactly saying that deciding to have your baby circumcised is an outrageous sin but personally I'd be happier if it was left for the individual to decide, I suppose parents make all sorts of choices for their children that the kids have no say in but in the case of circumcision I'd prefer the individual to have the choice.

One question though, you said that you have plenty of foreskin left over and so does your son. What's the point in having it done then? Or am I missing something?

Originally posted by Kailassa
If you had this done in a Jewish ceremony, it's likely you had much less cut off than is removed in hospitals.
Also, in a traditional ceremony, the child is not taken from its parents. The mother holds her baby, and is able to cuddle him immediately. Then he is passed around for everyone present to cuddle and welcome into his Jewish family.

If there's research on the subject, I bet you'll find that the different circumstances make a huge difference to the long-term impact one the child.

I find it a little strange that a baby would be passed around and people would celebrate the fact that he's had his foreskin removed but hey each to their own

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Kailassa
If you had this done in a Jewish ceremony, it's likely you had much less cut off than is removed in hospitals.
Also, in a traditional ceremony, the child is not taken from its parents. The mother holds her baby, and is able to cuddle him immediately. Then he is passed around for everyone present to cuddle and welcome into his Jewish family.

If there's research on the subject, I bet you'll find that the different circumstances make a huge difference to the long-term impact one the child.

I find it a little strange that a baby would be passed around and people would celebrate the fact that he's had his foreskin removed but hey each to their own

It's like he's not Jewish until then, and during the ceremony he becomes Jewish, so they all welcome him to the family of Judaism.

Originally posted by Kailassa
It's like he's not Jewish until then, and during the ceremony he becomes Jewish, so they all welcome him to the family of Judaism.

Ah, I see.

Excuse my ignorance but could you explain the significance of circumcision in the Jewish religion?

I'll be honest and admit that I don't know a lot about it and if you could explain it in a simple fashion I'd be grateful

Originally posted by nixie_nox
What a shame, and It is sad you try to compare the two. Female genital mutilation is a young girl being thrown to the grown by three grown men, and the local shaman cutting it off with a knife, no anesthesia, no antiseptic, nothing.

Young women run to other countries, run to other nations, to halfway houses, ANYTHING to get away from this awful ritual. Leaving friends and family behind to never see again.

Many of the girls get sexually assaulted at the same time.

It also renders a girl useless to enjoy sex.

I am not condoning circumcision, but to compare the two is not realistic.

THis may be true of the real world but here on ATS apples are habitually compared to oranges, turnips and bees?

I thank it is a neoconservative initiative. How or why anyone would compare femal edcircumcision to male circumcision is plain daft to me.

Even the ages when the act is done is different. Thereis NO damn comparison in the real world.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Again, hard to discuss without being graphic.

Instead of a hoodie, it is more like a turtle neck. Some guys just have a t-shirt collar.

I think it depends on the size of the equipment the doctor is working with. Sometimes they are able to take off the "excess" and still leave a flexible amount. Other times there isn't much to work with and they take off whatever they can, and it doesn't leave much. Just my uneducated opinion. I haven't seen a whole bunch of these things.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Again, hard to discuss without being graphic.

Instead of a hoodie, it is more like a turtle neck. Some guys just have a t-shirt collar.

I think it depends on the size of the equipment the doctor is working with. Sometimes they are able to take off the "excess" and still leave a flexible amount. Other times there isn't much to work with and they take off whatever they can, and it doesn't leave much. Just my uneducated opinion. I haven't seen a whole bunch of these things.

Of course you haven't...

See, I can be civil when I want to be!

Okay, cheers my friend, I think you've answered all my questions and there's not much more for me to add

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
It's hardly mutilation.

Many of the benefits include:

~ Prevents Penile Cancer. Virtually eliminates the risk
~ Helps prevent Urinary tract infections
~ Lowers risk of contracting STDs.
~ More Hygienic

How could circumcision possibly prevent any of those? The only reason this barbaric and painful practice is still being done is, because men and women want their male sons to fit into society, and I'd say it's more along the lines of peer pressure.

I think it's totally unnecessary and very painful.

I heard that some men are so traumatised that they are moved to hang weights to stretch the foreskin to grow. I do not that todlers love to tug on their foreskins which can further stretch it.

reply to post by 27jdI think it was Socrates who, when asked what it was like to get older & lose libido, replied "Its like being unchained from a madman." I'm not quite at that stage, but I thoroughly understand the idea!

I think I see where you're going with the questions though.

Actually, no. I'll answer the same questions:
I'm bi. Slightly more into women than men, but, in a group setting, I dont mind the attentions of men that I wouldn't do on their own. So long as they dont get between me & someone else I prefer.
I lost count of how many partners I'd had before I got married at 20. My wife of 17yrs is also bi & equally highly libidinous (we still play together even tho we've been divorced 5yrs). I literally couldn't count the number of hundreds of partners we've had together & seperately.
Voyeurism isn't my bag either, but if you're exhausted in an environment where others are still at it, especially if some get off on exhibitionism, you cant avoid seeing whats going on.
Now, I never took scientific notes on my experiences, but I have also travelled extensively & have a good memory. My point being that my personal experience contains more 'subjects' than most of the studies that have been cited in this thread.
Moreover, if you get into this kind of lifestyle, you not only have the opportunity, but a responsibility, to talk frankly about sex. It obviously has to start with, "When were you last tested, for what & how long since you were last at risk?", then moves onto "What are you into?" & "Have you ever tried [use imagination]?" Naturally, there is a great deal of trust involved, which also means that, in the gaps between physical activity, you get talking about all kinds of deeply personal stuff that you might otherwise have problems even talking to your doctor about. This then is my frame of reference: I know as much about how various penises work as the average prostitute.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Kailassa
It's like he's not Jewish until then, and during the ceremony he becomes Jewish, so they all welcome him to the family of Judaism.

Ah, I see.
Excuse my ignorance but could you explain the significance of circumcision in the Jewish religion?

I'll be honest and admit that I don't know a lot about it and if you could explain it in a simple fashion I'd be grateful

I'm not Jewish myself, I've just been passing on what my Jewish friends have told me.

To them it's about fulfilling a covenant with G-d.

The origin of brit milah can be traced back to Abraham, who was the founding patriarch of Judaism. According to Genesis, God appeared to Abraham when he was ninety-nine years old and commanded him to circumcise himself, his thirteen-year-old son Ishmael and all the other men with him as a sign of the covenant between Abraham and God.

And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:9-14)

By circumcising himself and all the men with him, Abraham established the practice of brit milah, which was thenceforth performed on all newborn boys after eight days of life. Originally men were commanded to circumcise their sons themselves, but eventually this duty was transferred to the mohelim (plural of mohel).

The baby might not celebrate this, but everyone else is supposed to.

I stumbled across an interesting discussion here:
Circumcision: A Source of Jewish Pain

reply to post by Kailassa


I am a religious man. I believe a lot of what is in the Bible from a historical perspective......but really? REALLY, REALLY???

An all-powerful supreme being that lives beyond the realms of space and time and is omnipotent in his power has decided that the best way to form a covenant with me is to cut off the foreskin of an 8 day old baby? Not a tattoo? Not a certain uniform? I mean couldn't he just change the DNA of my tribe to be born without the foreskin? Out of all the things in the vastness of the Universe and the entirety of known time, my foreskin is what the Almighty wants as a show of our Covenant?

Should I be worried for my child that did not get circumsized? You think St. Peter is checking Penises at the Pearly Gates?

I have nothing against those who are circumcised and/or prefer to circumcise their sons. I just don't like the arguments people use to justify it. So, following on my previous post, I would like to add some food for thought:

If you are religious, suppose God created us. Why would he put a foreskin man's penis, if we're supposed to cut it off? Are we arrogant enough to think that God miscalculated the ammount of skin needed to create a human being? Did God fail? Is that it? Or is that a divine test?

If you believe we were made by a aliens, you'd have to believe they have a superior knowledge about biology than we do. Afteral, they created us! Why would they put a foreskin on our penis if we are supposed to cut it out? Were they playing a prank on us? "Ok, lets make them use only 10% of their brains and cover their penis some extra skin! ROFL!"

If you believe we are the byproduct of evolution, you'd have to take into account that evolution is about the survival of the fittest and that those traits that allows for better adaptation are the ones carried on from one generation to the next. If the foreskin played AGAINST our survival as a species, we would either evolve into human beings WITHOUT penial foreskins or there should be evidence that we are, as we speak, naturally losing those foreskins.

EIther way, to say that something that is part of every man's body that it shouldn't be there, sounds just wrong IMO.

Like I said, the foreskin protects the penis! Today you go to work at an office, but the cave man had to run naked in the forest to hunt his food. If you were naked in the woods and had to hunt for food, would you rather have the foreskin to protect your penis, or would you rather be circumcised? =P

www.youtube.com...

I wish all parents see it before they put theirs babys to be mutilated