Photograph of Indonesian undead? The walking corpse of Toraja., page 1

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Topic started on 18-9-2010 @ 03:37 AM by One Step Beyond...

Zombies, walking corpses and the power of giving life to the dead are things from fiction, right? Well, what do you think about this picture?

From what I could find, this picture was first present in this indonesian blog mamasa-online.blogspot.com... wich talks about a personal story involving the walking corpses of Tojara, Indonesia. But only recently the picture is gaining attention, making presence in many blogs and forums with the following text:

Only in Indonesia (especially Toraja), a corpse is usually being
carried up to the grave, but in Toraja, the corpse is woken up letting it
walk to its grave (is rarely performed anymore)

The corpse is woken up using black magic. This is done because in Toraja
the graves/cemetries is placed above limestones mountains.

The corpse walks by itself, and its guided by an expert in black magic behind it.
But there is one prohibition, the corpse shouldn’t be appointed, once pointed,
the corpse falls down and isn’t able to walk again.

Curiously, a website about turism in Indonesia give more depth to the history:

To Make a Dead Man Walk

In times past, when the villages of Tana Toraja were still extremely isolated and difficult to visit, it is said that certain people had the power to make a dead man walk to his village in order to be present at his own funeral. In this way, relatives of the deceased were spared the necessity of having to carry his corpse. One particular area, Mamasa ? West Toraja, was particularly well-known for this practice. The people of this area are not strictly speaking of the same ethnic group as the people of Tana Toraja. However, outsiders often refer to them as Toraja Mamasa. In many ways, the cultures of the two groups are similar, although they each have their own distingushing characteristics. In particular, the style of wood carving of the two groups is different.

According to the belief system of the people of Mamasa, the spirit of a dead person must return to his village of origin. It is essential that he meet with his relatives, so that they can guide him on his journey into the after-life after the ceremonies have been completed. In the past, people of this area were frightened to journey far, in case they died while they were away and were unable to return to their village. If someone died while on a journey, and unless he has a strong magic power, it would be necessary to procure the services of an expert, to guide the dead person back to the village.

This is not intended metaphorically-the dead person would be made to walk from wherever he had journeyed back home, no matter how far away that was. The corpse would walk stiffly, without any expression on his face, in the manner of a robot. If anyone addressed the dead man directly, he would fall down senseless, unable to continue his journey. Therefore, those accompanying the deceased on the macabre procession had to warn people they met on their path not to talk directly to the dead man. The attendants usually sought out quiet paths where the procession was less likely to meet with strangers. These days, the practice of walking the dead back to their place of origin has fallen out of currency.

Good roads now connect the villages of Tana Toraja, and people tend to rely on more conventional means of transportation for bringing bodies back home. The ability to bring the dead back to life has not been entirely forgotten, however. Sometimes, even now, the deceased is made to continue breathing and seems alive until all his relatives are gathered around him.More commonly, the skill is practiced on animals. At a funeral ceremony, when a buffalo has been sacrificed and its head separated from its body, the body is made to get up and walk for as long as ten minutes. A demonstration of this sort proves to the audience that the ability to bring the dead back to life has not entirely passed from the community.

Now I ask you ATS, what you think about the picture and the history of the Torajans? Hoax? Photoshop? Misunderstanding? Scientifically probable? Historically accurate?

Sincerely I don't know what to think of it, I think the picture is real but doesn't show an undead but yes a corpse standing up due to bones and muscular rigidness but I really don't know, I am no forensic expert.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:47 AM by Grimnal

ok this reminds me of serpent and the rainbow and Tetrodotoxin sounds like wild jungle herbs to me

edit on 18-9-2010 by Grimnal because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:47 AM by k0mbination

reply to post by One Step Beyond...

if thats for real, it just opens a whole can of worms as to what else is true. But the smell!!!! phew!!!

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:49 AM by Hefficide

This is just a guess...

This picture reminds me of pictures I saw in a medical journal, some years back, of leprosy.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:52 AM by k0mbination

reply to post by Hefficide

yeah could be, but wouldn't the locals not want to touch? you know the old leper fear. she sure looks dead

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:57 AM by Grimnal

the zombie cocktail Tetrodotoxin and Solanaceae both found any were in the world together is gonna make a zombie. if you want a true zombie Scopolamine, Burundanga and tetrodotoxin

edit on 18-9-2010 by Grimnal because: Scopolamine

edit on 18-9-2010 by Grimnal because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:58 AM by hhcore

Well, I'm under the impression that this is an old wives tale if you will. I think the lady is either made to look that way, or she may have been stricken with a disease that makes her look like this. After the photo was taken, whomever captured it just straight up ran with it. Maybe she was made to look this way for a ceremony of this 'supposed' practice, but for me to think the living dead? Nah... no blood coursing through her veins, atrophied muscle tissue, etc., etc....

But this is just my humble opinion. It would be akin to native americans currently doing a rain dance.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 03:58 AM by Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by One Step Beyond...

One Step Beyond.....

I think this will be able to be explained on the basis of a known medical condition that has not been attended to properly in this instance.

If I get time, I will see if I can do some homework on that aspect.

As mentioned previously, leprosy (now called Hansens Disease) could be a possible cause.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

edit on 18-9-2010 by Maybe...maybe not because: Spelling

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:05 AM by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I would guess that is a real photo of a real corpse, but based on the inclination of the head, it was stood up out of the coffin after rigger mortis had set in. The head appears as though it had been resting on pillow, and stiffened that way.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:06 AM by XXXN3O

reply to post by One Step Beyond...

Only in Indonesia (especially Toraja), a corpse is usually being
carried up to the grave, but in Toraja, the corpse is woken up letting it
walk to its grave (is rarely performed anymore)

The corpse is woken up using black magic. This is done because in Toraja
the graves/cemetries is placed above limestones mountains.

The corpse walks by itself, and its guided by an expert in black magic behind it.
But there is one prohibition, the corpse shouldn’t be appointed, once pointed,
the corpse falls down and isn’t able to walk again.

I have seen this done actually...

YouTube Link

I am quite sceptical of this, if certain illnesses are left untreated they can make your appearance disturbing. Quite often in poorer parts of the world there is no medical treatment and I think this would fall into that category.

I feel really sorry for the woman in the picture. Could be a wind up of course though.

edit on 18-9-2010 by XXXN3O because: To add text

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:07 AM by pepsi78

It's what happened and happens over and over again. It's why it always sinks to the bottom of the ocean.
It's why atlantis sunk, witchcraft. This is witchcraft at it's finest, nothing spiritual about it.
I know what spiritual means, it's the dolphin in the sea, this on the other hand is bad as it gets. Why don't you leave the dead alone. I don't get it, it's poking and playing with fire.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:12 AM by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Those saying this is a person with a disease need to look on the ground behind the body, those are opened coffins with the lid of one appearing below the girl in the black shirts arm. I would bet its an exhumed body that was removed for some reason. The bodies stance is exactly the same as most people are laid in state.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 9/18/2010 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:15 AM by k0mbination

reply to post by defcon5

thats was my next thought, they've just got a corpse (as disturbing as that thought is) and maybe to fleece some tourists they've got her out on display.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:17 AM by Hefficide

reply to post by defcon5

That is a very valid point, regarding the photo. The articles implied walking, so I began looking for explanations based upon that factor. But it's also very possible that the picture is of a corpse and the text is misleading!

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:18 AM by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Here you go:

The ceremony is often held weeks, months, or years after the death so that the deceased's family can raise the significant funds needed to cover funeral expenses. Torajans traditionally believe that death is not a sudden, abrupt event, but a gradual process toward Puya (the land of souls, or afterlife). During the waiting period, the body of the deceased is wrapped in several layers of cloth and kept under the tongkonan. The soul of the deceased is thought to linger around the village until the funeral ceremony is completed, after which it begins its journey to Puy.

So this is a body that has been laying in state for weeks to years being prepared to go into its final coffin.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:24 AM by One Step Beyond...

reply to post by Hefficide

In the wikipedia page there's a text talking about the funeral rite of the Torajans:

During the waiting period, the body of the deceased is wrapped in several layers of cloth and kept under the tongkonan. The soul of the deceased is thought to linger around the village until the funeral ceremony is completed, after which it begins its journey to Puya.[26]

In the picture there are coffins and one of them has a bunch of cloth... So, maybe the person in the picture is indeed a deceased one? And that's all part of their rite?

Also, in the wikipedia and the incitoprima (the turism website) they talk about how they actually treat a dead person many times like if it's alive, giving food to them and all.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:28 AM by XXXN3O

reply to post by defcon5

The only reason im going at it from the sickness angle is because of cases such as this...

YouTube Link

This is warts left untreated. You would never see anything like this in a country with healthcare facilities etc.

I can see what looks like an opened grave of course and that could be the case as voodoo practicing does go on of course. The picture looks strange around the woman, its a different shade, look at the "zombies" hands, they are pixelated slightly whilst the others in the picture are not. I think its a hoax.

edit on 18-9-2010 by XXXN3O because: to add

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:29 AM by nagabonar

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's what happened and happens over and over again. It's why it always sinks to the bottom of the ocean.
It's why atlantis sunk, witchcraft. This is witchcraft at it's finest, nothing spiritual about it.
I know what spiritual means, it's the dolphin in the sea, this on the other hand is bad as it gets. Why don't you leave the dead alone. I don't get it, it's poking and playing with fire.

its their culture and the way they have done it for hundreds of years. they also expect to be treated the same way when they die.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:32 AM by One Step Beyond...

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

I thought of that but their cultural aspect speaks a great volume. I think the person is in fact dead with the body rigid and standing up because of death stiffness and for some reason the body wrapped in layers of cloth extends the period of stiffness.

reply posted on 18-9-2010 @ 04:36 AM by infinite

This has got to be a medical condition. I cannot fathom or begin to accept this is an "undead" individual coming back to life. But, however, this a bizarre case.

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