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Gold seizure again? Or another new form of Tax on Gold? Or?

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:08 PM
So, the nuts in the federal government are going to have hearings on gold. With treasuries and bonds heading to all time lows, what is the next step to keep the dollar from tanking?

This article goes into the problems in government treasuries now-How low can treasuries go?

Unfortunately, bond investors appear to be betting on the latter. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note fell to about 2.57% early Monday afternoon. That's the lowest level since March 2009.

Falling rates are often a sign of a weak economy. Earlier this year, when many experts thought that the worst was truly over in the United States and that a fairly healthy rebound was possible, the yield on the 10-year traded as high as 4.01%.

Let me see, did someone recently talk about the problem with treasuries and bonds? Must of been someone, cannot remember who?

Anyway, government bonds and treasuries are "supposedly" the gold standard when it comes to safe bets right? WRONG. Gold is the gold standard, right alongside silver, but silver may be the better bet, IMO.

Silver and Gold current prices.

Now, some will attempt to say that gold and silver prices are at historic highs.

Oh Contraire mon ami.

By using historical inflationary rates and valuing the current US dollar, the historic rate for gold would be at $3700/oz.

So, what is up with the Orwellian attempt to call for investigations into the gold sales?

Discussion on that here-Congressmen Weiner and Waxman Set Gold Hearing

Just as the government is trying to prevent people from investing in anything other than T-Bills by raising taxes on taxable interest and dividends to confiscatory levels, it's also trying to prevent you from parking your wealth in assets, like gold, that compete with the paper dollars issued by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury. A press release from Rep. Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, not yet (as of this instant) posted on Mr. Weiner's Web site, announces that a September 23 hearing of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection (a subcommittee of Rep. Henry Waxman's Commerce Committee) will focus on "legislation that would regulate gold-selling companies, an industry who's [sic] relentless advertising is now staple of cable television."

So reading through these articles and the COMMENTS (pay attention to these by the way), what can we fathom is going on?

Well, to put it bluntly, the government is attempting to keep some very important things hidden from the general public. With the decline of treasuries and bonds to historic lows, the only thing safe for investment historically was property, stocks, treasuries and commodities.

Well we all know what has happened with real estate, the stock market is blatantly being manipulated, treasuries are heading south, so why the vilification of gold and silver?

Well, IMO is that if people move out of the treasuries like they have out of the other historic stable investments, the whole ball of bull comes crashing down. IMO it is inevitable.

Just a couple of notes for your information. Physical commodities not the paper ones are the only safe bet. The futures and the other paper commodities are LIES, IMO. These are other forms that the governments and banks use to manipulate the precious metal markets. Rumors abound that the paper market in gold, silver, nickel and other precious metals are as ripe with fraud, corruption and outright fallacy of value, as other forms of paper currency. All an illusion.

Now what the pundits like ol Mr. Weiner are saying that the melt value of gold compared to the value of gold coin is where these gold marketers are making a killing. They are KIND of correct. But what are they trying to do? Get people to invest in more PAPER? Yes, the markup on gold and silver coins is outrageous IMO.

If you ask my opinion, the best bets are in ingots of the smaller size. That way you do not get the tungsten ones that ol Clinton and the IMF globalists flooded the gold assets with. Now we have ol Clinton baby coming out with the Clinton Globalization movement. The outright complicity to me is so obvious, I do not even understand the qualms anyone has with the obviousness of the globalization cabal.

No comments in this OP is meant to be economic advice. This disclaimer is the same given by the likes of CNBC. But with my comments, I do not have an agenda, only the truth.

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:56 PM

Rep. Weiner Announces Hearings on TV Gold Dealers
Washington DC – Today, Rep. Anthony Weiner (D – Queens & Brooklyn) announced a hearing of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection to discuss legislation that would regulate gold-selling companies, an industry who’s relentless advertising is now staple of cable television.

Invitations to the hearing have been sent to representatives of Goldline International, the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumers Union and several other witnesses. The hearing is set to take place on September 23, 2010.

The announcement follows a report released in May by Rep. Weiner’s office which investigated the business practices of Goldline International, a precious metals dealer that uses aggressive sales tactics and conservative spokespeople like Fox News’ Glenn Beck to sell overpriced gold coins. Additionally, the Santa Monica City Attorney's office launched a joint investigation with the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office into the possible criminal practices of Goldline International. Goldline’s actions have also prompted a class action lawsuit, filed in South Carolina, against the company on behalf of customers who allege they have been ripped off.

There after scams not gold.

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:59 PM
I have to admit you did put a lot of effort in to the scare people the government is going to take your gold bit though. A+ on the effort F on the facts though.

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:02 PM
reply to post by JBA2848

What is the scam? Someone selling something for a profit?

OH NOES, those evil capitalists!

No, it cannot have anything to do with EXACTLY what I laid out.

Nope, nothing to do with real estate prices plummeting, stock market being manipulated, treasuries diving, deflation kicking in.

None of the above, Nope, Nada, Nyet.

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

Going after Goldline for scamming people into paying 500 times the price of gold for there speciality gold coin is not going to freeze up the gold market and prevent any one from buying gold. So how are they seizing gold and preventing someone from buying gold?

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:10 PM
reply to post by JBA2848

500 times, please, I need a source for that malarkey.

As for the seizure, OH NEVER HAPPEN IN THE US RIGHT?


posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:12 PM
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

The average Goldline markup was 90% above the melt value of the coin. The largest markup on any coin was 208% above the melt value. Furthermore, the average Goldline markup is 47% higher than better-priced competitors, with some of the company’s markups going as high as 102% compared to its competitors on one of the coins they offered.

My bad 208% higher than the normal price.

I recommend page 8 of the above pdf file. Shows the markups of competitors compared to goldline.

edit on 17-9-2010 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:14 AM
i wonder when fdr was president and the day before someone say "go hide your gold" fdr was going to take it.

i can guarantee the same responses salt they never would have believed it.

fdr did steal american gold there are alot of similarities now and then and yet people will turn a blind eye to it.

people will not look at history and i do not know why its all happened before and it will happen again.

i guess thats why liberals wanted to be in control of the educational system in america to white wash and revise our real history so they can do it all over again and again without people being none the wiser.

which leads me to something i thought id never say is thank god for the internet with it being so massive they cant erase the truth out there.

i been following gold since it was $325 an ounce and all i can say is i wish a bought a hell of alot of it:p

edit on 18-9-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:20 AM
reply to post by JBA2848

Hey, If I could sell you ice in Oymyakon, that makes me a good salesman.

Tell me, do you think that Ol Weiner boy, is going to go after the Treasury Dept authorized minters?

Probably not, because I have seen the crap they sell, makes that 208% markup look like a bargain.

Did you know, that one of the highest markup items is jewelry. About a 500-1000% markup.

Do you think they will go after the government itself? You know, they have a 500-1000% tax on tobacco. When are they going to quit THAT?

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:31 AM
For what it's worth OP, I think that you are right on target with your analysis. I bet you read Zero Hedge. If not you'd enjoy it.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:33 AM
reply to post by neo96

The funny part of the whole story, is they will not even look at the articles I posted. These are ACTUAL facts. Yes my title may have been used to bring them in, but it has historical context. Absolutely.

Well, I got into it, just not enough to hold me over. Wish the government would not have STOLEN 25% when I pulled my retirement investments, then they wanted me to explain what I did with it after I took it out. Before the market crash. Told em to kiss my.......

Yep, the parallels are many. But one thing that was not there back in the 30's, the country did not have unfunded liabilities of 11 times the GDP and a Debt of 110% of GDP.

Those last two should tell everyone where we are comparitively to the great depression, actually in worse position. This does not include the fricking states being up to their asses in debt. With the public pensions being underwater also.

Some can be SOOO blind to the actual situation.

Tell you what folks out there, just GOOGLE "obvious stock market manipulation" and READ.

Yes, if there was no internet, only a few of us would know the truth, instead of the millions being informed. That number is rising daily. One can only believe the lies only so long.

Yep, 42 million people on foodstamps, 30 million unemployed, yeah we are in the midst of an economic BOOM!

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:46 AM
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

you forgot the national poverty rate has just increased.

really how did america ever survive before nonstop meddling with the additions of social security,medicare,medicaid,food stamps and corporate welfare, housing welfare and now everyones getting their school paid for and paying people not to work or farm.

i cant name one person receiving and governmental assistance saying " my life is just so awesome"

their ideals are unsustainable every single thing they want costs money in everything they do.

it is not the governments responsiblity to be all things and do all things for every american.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:46 AM
reply to post by erumisato

Oh yeah, about the 2nd in my economics bookmark folder. I have about 10 in that one. Try to keep up with that folder the most. Problem is lately, it has been pretty much the same now for 3-4 years. No change, the same news, only getting worse and worse.

Tyler Durden's the man.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:46 AM
Goldline selling gold for 208% higher than the normal price.
then you have the cash for gold type companies buying gold for 25 to 50% of its normal price.

I worked for many years in the gold-mining industry and this BS is the biggest ripoff of stupid people.

No one in the gold mining industry would have anything to do with this type of scammers.

I can sell gold dore bars to legitimate gold refiners for between 95 to 98% of the gold value. 95% value for gold dore bars weighing one ounce 98% for gold bars over 5 ounces. and this is assay value for Dore bars from 80% gold or better.(the term dore gold is unrefined gold less then 99.999 pure.
For gold that is .999 all you should have to pay is a 1% assay fee for bars over 5 ounces.

for gold coin you should not have to pay a assay fee as coins are made so that they can not be tampered with without it showing in damage or weight loss. old collectors coins are different then plain gold coins.
gold coins less then 25 years old are bought and sold and gold value. with a very small markup for handling.

Collectors coins are sold on a case by case bases based on rarity and age.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 05:03 AM
OP - I agree very much with what you have presented, the conclusion that gold may be seized seems unlikely to me - not that they dont want to do it - but I think it would work against them.

For myself I am invested heavily in precious metals, gold, silver (mostly), palladium , cash and equities a small amount.

Palladium I feel is a long term (10+ yrs) alternative energy play, I believe the cold fusion process works, and that palladium is an essential component - in the short term I expect it to follow its usual curve between investment and industrial demand.

There are a couple of reasons why I think a gold seizure is unlikely.

During the first seizure, dollars were directly gold backed - so whoever held the gold would benefit from devaluation - so the govt wanted to be on the right side of that eqn. Now, dollars can be devalued at will - and there is no direct cost for the govt or cronies.

Secondly - seizing gold would create a frenzy of dollar selling, and gold buying world wide - because dollars are not linked to gold, and most accessible gold lies in domestic markets outside the US (India and China mainly) - the US cronies could not achieve anything except destroying the value of any $US assets they held - they could never accumulate gold faster or cheaper than foreign govts.

Thirdly - the banksters are seizing real estate. This seems to be the play - the bubble explosion has wrecked real estate prices, forced foreclosures and the banks are keeping the inventory - they say they are doing it to support prices - sure, there is an enormous amount of real estate held by banks, a great deal of which was transferred to the Fed for virtually nothing, that represents real wealth - acquired for nothing.

They can hold the inventory as long as they like - its real estate, real money.

Nope - gold seizure seems unlikely.

While I am discussing the Fed real estate grab - I should also point out an act of larceny it is committing which is so simple and glaring, but most people don't see it for what it is.

Monetization - it should be causing a revolution - but people aren't being told what it means.

OK - here is the process in simplicity - the treasury (govt) creates a public debt, and sells it to the Fed - who create money on a computer. The people now OWE the Fed real money - created from work - to pay back a debt that was created by punching a few computer keys.

They are being sold nothing of value, but taxes will be paying the Fed for this phantom debt for years to come. Its insane, its theft - its counterfeit - it should be causing riots.

Precious metals are likely to continue to do well into the future - there is an enormous debt over hang throughout the entire financial system, it needs to be unwound - this will take years, and may not happen at all in a gradual way - a crash is probably needed to force those involved to actually come clean and clear up the debts.

Paper assets are being leveraged over and over again - extending the risks and debt associated with the small amount of real assets they finally represent - no-one has the ability to pay - unless they print a whole lot more money - ultimately I feel this will be the solution. At first there will be no inflationary effect as the extra money will simply plug holes of debt, and vanish - but as some of that debt is unwound, and there are some winners - the money will enter the real economy faster and faster - inflation will result.

Silver is extremely cheap now compared to historical levels, and its availability has dropped, demand has increased and its utility as an industrial metal is expanding exponentially - I feel at some point, perhaps 10yrs or so in future, silver will be more expensive than gold.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 05:20 AM
reply to post by ANNED

See, this is the type of comments that should be made by Weiner.
But this is NOT what Weiner wants. Weiner does not want people to actually go and investigate this, he wants people to not buy gold at all. He knows that people going to commodities hurts the dollar.

They cannot come out and state this though, it will wake up the masses to what is going on.

Absolutely investigation should be done into what you purchase.

Tell me, have you see the advertisements coming out now about investing in gold where they do not give you the gold but paper again?

Funny how the major banks have bought up most of the gold contracts in the world for about the next two years. So what is actually being traded? Futures and other paper gold. Just as everything else, if you do not hold it, it is only paper.

As for Comex, here is some nice info.

The Biggest Fraud in History?

Yeah, nothing going on when someone can predict the market 2 days before a price fix gets set to go into effect and the whistleblower calls it perfectly.

Why do you think they are going about selling gold for 1/2 to 1/3 of it's value. Maybe the value is being manipulated?

What on earth could be the reason for THAT? /sarcasm

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 05:28 AM
reply to post by Amagnon

Well, what is the fed and the government going to do when the inflationary spiral gets out of control?

They cannot control it when it starts. That is why I think they are not going to raise interest rates. If they do, I think they lose control that they have.

Your breakdown in your comment is pretty much how I see it.

As for the real estate market, it is not only the local banks and fed doing this. Just watched on a cable documentary on real estate in Florida. Foreign investors are buying up real estate at 30% of the price from just two years ago. That is just one market.

Funny how NONE of this is covered on the "supposed" financial market Media channels.

edit on 18-9-2010 by saltheart foamfollower because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 05:43 AM
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

US real estate is good value - I think prices in many area's are still going to fall in the the next year, perhaps two - but its still a decent time to be buying - if you are on the lucky list you can also get cheap credit

I expect inflation to slowly overcome deflation over the next 3 yrs in the US - although if banks continue to lie about balance sheets and increase reserves (As Basel III requires) then deflation is going to continue in the short term.

There is however energy and food shortages which are arising this year and will continue next year - these will definitely create inflationary pressure.

PS - I like the name you have chosen - I read and enjoyed those books about 15 years ago and still remember them well.

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 06:05 AM
reply to post by Amagnon

Something you mention I have noticed a disconnect in the overall markets.

Some prices, like foods and a few others are heading up, where as most others are heading down.

Yet we have an overall stagflation of -2.7 I think was my last view since January 09. Cannot remember the source.

With the real estate markets tanking, I have not seen a true number given for the decline in those markets, because of the false sales quotes given by realtors and others in the real estate game. Read an article about 2-3 weeks ago how they do not want to give the true prices fearing the bottom will fall out. They are quoting the asking prices as the sell price.

Whole lotta lies flowing out there.

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