WTC 7's compartmented demolition collapse sequence reveals human intervention.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
I thought the mysterious WTC 7 collapse had been definitively solved by computer models. Wasn't it "out of control fires?" No wait, NIST said it was a new and unique phenomena: "thermal expansion."

. . . . .

With no steel from Tower 7 to study, investigators have instead made four extremely complex computer models worked out to the finest detail. They're confident their approach can now provide the answers. Dr Sunder says the investigation is moving as fast as possible.

"It's a very complex problem. It requires a level of fidelity in the modelling and rigour in the analysis that has never been done before."

Other skyscrapers haven't fully collapsed before because of fire. But NIST argues that what happened on 9/11 was unique.

Don't they mean "It requires a level of fiddling with the modelling and rigging the analysis"?

Originally posted by airspoon
The government has always approached WTC7 (on the rare occasions that they even acknowledge it) in a funny but odd way. Instead of trying to figure out a cause for its collapse based upon the data, they first came up with the cause, then searched for the data to conform to that cause. It's rediculous, as they are ignoring the most probable cause, controlled demolition. It really isn't a mystery as they are trying to make it out to be because it can easily be explained through comtrolled demo. However, instead of going with the most reasonable, logical and probable cause, they outright ignore it all together and try and fit a square peg in a round hole. Just the fact that they are ignoring the possibility of controlled demolitions, says alot and is indicative of their intentions and motives.


--airspoon

Building 3 was probably going to be the target of the plane that ended up plowing into the ground. It seems that they went to great lengths to get Guillianni to put is disaster response office in that building. Apparently, he was given $100,000 in campaign donations to relocate there. If not so that it could be destroyed then WHY? WTC was the target of the last Muslim terrorist, right?

There is SO MUCH overlap and involvement in strange activities of the Bush administration and the alleged terrorists, and people and groups involved in the events surrounding it, that there isn't a plausible explanation OTHER than that Bush and cohorts were involved in some way.

Anyone who has tried to make a list of the events leading up to and after 9/11 -- I don't know how you cannot put Bush and Cheney at the top of the suspect list. You can explain maybe one or two strange coincidences -- but over hundreds? I could rattle off at least 100 unexplained "coincidences." When people say; "if this were a big conspiracy -- how could they keep a secret?" It's really hard to point out; "why does huge wealth and high crimes make people talk -- and how did they actually keep it a secret beyond having willing fools argue with thousands of 'Truthers' that this is a secret?"

I mean, we've got a few web sites devoted to it -- and that's after they tried to bury all the evidence. How stupid are we supposed to be to be talking about an impossible secret when everybody seems to have NOT seen a Demolition and I have?

Either God or Satan is trying to set up George Bush -- or he stinks of corruption. He is already a war criminal from two wars without justification. He already had organizations work to propagandize the media and create evidence to go to war. Both Bush and Cheney have personally profited from war and put business associate friends at the funnel of public money. How many times has Haliburton, KBR or Carlysle been caught in frauds and criminal activities with NO repercussions?

>> Maybe we are all mutants, unaffected by mind games -- I don't know what it is. I argue this with my very intelligent, older brother -- who thinks the matter is settled. People who are vested in the status quo, and who want to be liked,... really don't have time for "conspiracy theories." There is no profit in it.

That's the problem. There is some coping mechanism in our society, that makes people blind. Maybe this is the way MOST people just are. Like trying to explain the color blue to a dog -- they just cannot see what they are told they cannot see. Why is it the people who always say; "I don't watch TV" sound exactly like what I hear on the stupid TV?

After the Bank collapse of November 2008 -- which I figured would have happened sooner,.. all the people in shock about it, quickly realized that of course, it was the poor people who couldn't afford to live in a house who caused the collapse. Never mind that all the bankruptcies accounted for only $65 Billion, and bankers know how able you are to pay back a loan better than you do. Never mind that Private Mortgage Insurance covers Banks for any loan that is not sufficiently collateralized (that's why AIG was important). When you are talking about balloon mortgage payments given to some poor schmuck going to 12% interest -- well, of course they cannot pay.

This is how the world works; lot's of unexplained big events, and everybody paying attention to the little things. We are driven from war to war, from bank collapse to bank collapse, from drug wars that have no result other than to create intrusive laws and more death and more drug profits and bigger prisons.

We have spend more than $10 Billion per suspected terrorist. I think we could have just given every Muslim on the planet a free college education and we would be their best buddies. But the money goes to the people getting paid by the companies that declare the wars and stand to make the profits.

reply to post by Alfie1


www.ntsb.gov...

page 3 of 7, the flightpath of UAL93.
Look at the last little white square, and tell me what direction it flew when it headed suddenly at 9:59 a.m. to a more northwards direction, indicated by that second-last other white square?

Manhattan anyone? Where at 09:59 a.m. the South Tower collapsed (what coincidence!), signaling to the "hijackers" that the North Tower was to be the next one to collapse, and to set course to Manhattan, which they now could reach easily, -after- the North Tower would have also collapsed, exact on the pre-planned 911-schedule, as the planning predicted.

And after that last little white square, suddenly the real UAL93 got shot, and plunged to the ground in Shanksville, in fact 1.5 miles south of the junction in Lambertsville, which is situated north of Shanksville.
While the decoy-UAL93 was still in the air, flying very low, not more than 50 feet over Lambertsville.

Manhattan, WTC 7, the last standing, fourth target, now unobstructed by the South Tower, since that one just collapsed at 09:59:04, and then the second obstacle, the North Tower, fell at 10:28:31.
The third obstacle, the Pentagon with the young but very clever boys and girls of the ONI, the Office of Naval Intelligence, who could have unraveled the decoy plane plot, was hit at 09:38 a.m.

Enough time, 28 minutes, for the decoy-UAL93 to reach WTC 7 and hit it as low as possible.
So all the damning files for the bankers and their puppet politicians and generals, who all had profited in those huge scams, were conveniently "burned".
Well, a few will lay in some hidden places, as insurance for the "hit-men", if they were/are smart enough....


Btw, I strongly advice to visit this link :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I will post it here too, when page 8 will be reached. I want it on top there, so we can have the responding posts as much as possible on one page.

See this thread (and a few others which I will add in my follow up post) :
Whistleblower Reveals :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looked again, and suddenly all pieces fell in place for me.
willyloman.wordpress.com...

That could be part of the solution why UAL93's transponder signal re-appeared on the radar for a short time, 3 minutes, after the FAA controllers thought it had gone down already.

This author thinks that UAL93 was shot down, and me too.
As opposed to what some in this thread thought :


And that it changed its direction in the last minutes of its flight, straight to Manhattan and WTC 7, which was now unobstructed, because the last obstructing tower, the North one, had also collapsed. That was the moment UAL93's hijackers got word that they could at last set the autopilot for New York, and that illogical waiting period by the hijackers to overtake the plane had ended.
But then they got shot down.

My proposal for the miracle appearance back on the FAA controllers screens of UAL93's transponder signal, for three minutes more than explained in the official story of UAL93, is as follows :

Very early in all 911 research, the first Pilots for Truth members came up with a very intriguing thesis, that all planes were switched for "Operation Northwoods" type shadowing planes, in the same color scheme as the original ones, in spots where the Main radar had dead spots, no coverage at all. They had nice drawings, which explained the dead spots clearly. It was exactly as proposed in the sixties, for the Operation Northwoods false flag event which luckily never happened.

So, when we adhere to such a viable probability, what would have happened, the moment the REMOTE pilots of the shadow plane had switched their radar identification transponder back on, which was an exact copy of that of UAL93, just a few moments before the same signal of UAL93 disappeared, since the "hijackers" had switched it off, as ordered by their CIA?Mossad?NWO?Bankers? backers?
But then suddenly one or more missile(s) out of nowhere shot UAL93 out of the air! And the CIA planners saw it happen, through their drones flying around on their "battlefield". As witnessed by Susan McElwain...!

They panicked, probably, and were discussing fiercely with each other what to do, and then at last decided to shut the shadow plane's transponder off again, and sent it back to its base, as low as possible, or wreck it in the Atlantic.

Thus, are these extra three minutes that ""UAL93"" was still in the air, an indication that they changed all planes in mid air, by flying above or under the original planes, so that their radar image became one, in radar dead spots?
And then the original one dived away, and flew under the main radar back to their individual Bases, with their original transponders off, and the shadow planes flew to their targets with their copy transponders on.

This could also explain Mrs Tailor and her sister, and Mr Peterson's witness reports on video, that they all three saw a VERY low flying plane, about 50 FEET HIGH, looking exactly as UAL93, a decoy plane, over the junction in their little village, just 1.5 miles north of the impact crater of the real UAL93.
But the NTSB data given to the public had the original UAL93 flying about 4,500 meters above that same junction!!!

DAMMIT!
They saw the decoy plane, which flew so low, to keep it under the radar! And that one flew on, while UAL93 went down just 1.5 miles further. And it flew upside down since some very cocky but full of adrenaline remote pilots were having a field day showing off what they were capable of. Or a list of any other reasons.

Now all pieces fall together for me, and I hope for a few more people.
Pilots, what do you think, is this the solution for all these years bickering over conflicting witness accounts?
And conflicting NTSB data, with stubbornly held witness accounts!

I think so.

Please dive deeper into this scenario, link all the known witness accounts to this new thesis, and see if now, everything fits much better than before. I see in my mind lots of witnesses and OFFICIAL data suddenly fill the space where I could not fit them in before.
Yep, I'm a bit excited. Who not..!?

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by Alfie1

 

www.ntsb.gov...

page 3 of 7, the flightpath of UAL93.
Look at the last little white square, and tell me what direction it flew when it headed suddenly at 9:59 a.m. to a more northwards direction, indicated by that second-last other white square?
Manhattan anyone?

And after that last one, it got shot, and plunged to the ground.

Btw, I strongly advice to visit this link :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I will post it here too, when page 8 will be reached. I want it on top there, so we can have the responding posts as much as possible on one page.

edit on 19/9/10 by LaBTop because: Added "reply to" remark.

LaBTop, UA 93 was making steadily for Washington until that final little curve which you identify as a change of course to Manhattan.

You are completely ignoring what was actually happening on UA 93 at 0959 as recorded on the CVR. The CVR has a hi-jacker saying this at 0959.09 " hold the door ", another voice at 0959.09 says " stop him ".

So, the situation on UA 93 at that time had nothing to do with making a planned change of course and everything to do with desperately trying to stop the passengers breaking into the cockpit . The final plunge was only a very short time away and I don't suppose the hi-jackers cared where the plane was headed at that point but, you will notice. UA 93 was headed away from New York again when it did go down.

As regards shooting down ; how do you account for the fact that the FDR indicates all systems working until impact ?

reply to post by Alfie1


Please first read the massive edit in my first post above.

I'm a kind of 9 year long expert on all four targets, if you did not notice yet.
But I am difficult to find in the ATS flagged-most and starred-most board system, since I massively post in other people their threads, so they can accumulate those flags and stars, and thus their thoughts which I support, get more notice.
That's why I am a bit surprised at the attention this thread gets, while I have posted myriads of posts, I believe much more than the system counts for me, with extensive solid information on all 911 subjects here at ATS.

I posted more than 10,000 post in my last forum, before 2005, but that forum has vanished. How convenient for some.

So bear with me, while I am going to dig up all my posts regarding UAL93, especially those about Susan McElwain who saw the military drone flying over her car at the near south of the impact of UAL93, and Mrs Tailor and her sister, and Mr Peterson, all from Lambertsville who saw the decoy plane flying low over their junction.
No more than 100 feet high, that's 34 meters!

Alfie, I kind of think that FDR is not an accurate report of what really happened.
See my link to the Whistleblower Reveals thread, as a small starter.

>> Many "DEBUNKERS" speak about the impossibility of "setting charges" in a building with working people in it.

It's great that the OP posted that there were a few floors uninhabited and that 3 or more floors are maintenance equipment where the key supports are located. That means there was plenty of access for setting the charges that would destroy the core.

>> Explosives would be obvious.

Other than the "non-resistance of the floors" you mean? I don't see a lot of charges going off in a regular implosion. Of course, a lot of the structure is pre-cut. But if you spend more money, you can use shaped charges -- they don't make a lot of noise, just a little "pop" as a charge drive s

>> "Predicting where the plane would hit or having the charges go off when a line could be cut, impossible:"

I don't understand all this "impossible talk." Ever since around 2000, there is all of a sudden this "defeatist Christian American" who seems to think that nothing can be solved -- wars must be fought, and America MUST use oil because it is "impossible" to use alternative energy. When Iceland, Israel and other countries have done it in a few years?

Or maybe, it's just the talk of paid shills getting spread around. Anyone who has watched a complex fireworks display, must be amazed at how they can synchronize the charges.

Any demolition, could have been radio controlled and sequenced for a simple computer app. Whichever floor is hit, starts the charge and then it proceeds downward from there. There is nothing that complicated about the "general idea" here -- just the implementation. If you have the funds, it's all doable.

>> but regardless of if it was actually due to the planes -- there is still the matter of the very apparent cover-up by the administration, war crimes, justification of torture, war profiteering, and lies and propaganda leading us to war. The Congress gave the president the war powers contingent on proof of Saddam's complicity; we should have left as soon as that was "once again" proved to not exist.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


It's not about whether or not it is possible. Just about anything is possible. The point is whether or not it is provable.

It is possible that I am a woman, because 50 percent of people on this planet are female, however observation and chromosome tests prove that I am, in fact, male.

But with this comes another matter entirely, about whether it is even possible to prove things online. Testimonies can be lies, photos and video can be altered, text can be incorrectly transcribed or used out of context. The list of credibility problems and the trust of word comes into play a lot. So, really, I would follow the advice of Section31 and try to locate older texts and documentation of the WTCs that cannot be "deleted" like digital can.

reply to post by Varemia


""and try to locate older texts and documentation of the WTCs that cannot be "deleted" like digital can. ""

That's a very viable argument, Varemia, which I have hinted at for years already.
And advised to use the WayBackMachine website, Archive.org, as much as possible in 911 research.
And even better, books are the most reliable sources. Before 911. Now they can be written on 911 subjects, full with wrong assertions, plain false proof and many other wicked information, gathered from unreliable online sources.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


Very good arguments, VAA !
The fireworks argument will get the message to the silent majority, perhaps?
And it's so blatantly obvious what the former government did to go to war using every trick in their books, it's nearly insane to believe that more than 50 % of the US population did believe their lies.
I think they all went for the status-quo, when it does not affect my life style, then its good for Amerika.

My seismic WTC 7 anomaly posts, long ones mostly, oldest first, as asked before by a poster :

Title : Popular Mechanics Is Correct? (Seismographs)
Page 1
28/9/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
29/9/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
30/9/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
30/9/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
HowardRoark gave me the Cianca photo in his link in this above post.
30/9/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
30/10/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
31/10/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
Page 2
31/10/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
01/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
01/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
01/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
02/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
02/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
Firefighters who were declared dead by NIST, but NIST also declared them alive, ten minutes later.
And communicating by radio with their unit command post, very weird indeed. But the brother of chief Pfeiffer is declared dead, died in WTC 1 collapse, NIST says, and Chief Pfeiffer says, but we have proof that his whole rig, nr 33, was radioing for instructions, 10 minutes AFTER the WTC 1 collapse. ALL WERE ALIVE; THEY MENTIONED ON THE RADIO. Were they murdered, had they seen too much?

03/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
03/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
03/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
08/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
21 witness accounts of explosions, with video.
25/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
28/11/05 www.abovetopsecret.com...
Larry Silverstein and the ev. Jewish connections.
End of thread.

These are some old threads of wecomeinpeace :
1. Photographic Analysis of the WTC7 Hole - NIST Debunked :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
2. 15/8/06 Photograph of the Much-Debated WTC7 South Face Hole :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
No doubt about it, that's the SW corner damage, not the south face hole.
3. 19/6/06 911 Eyewitness - A Complete Sham :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I still am not sure if he still thinks it was a scam?

reply to post by Alfie1


Alfie1, at further contemplation on what you said, could it have been the other way up or down, a decoy plane, and UAL93?

Could it have been UAL93 already, which was already on its way to home Base again, in a low altitude pattern, when the passengers, who did not know this intention, broke in the cockpit and disturbed the whole planning.
And the plane went down, instead of returning safely. All witnessed by Viola Sailor, her sister and Mr Petersen in Lambertsville.

And the decoy plane flew at 4.500 meters above that Lambertsville streets junction, as seen in the NTSB and FAA and radar reports.

The transponder switch had already taken place,dammit!

UAL93 switched off, and descended, and the decoy plane switched the transponder on and ascended.
I have to find that report back from the early Pilots for Truth forum, and see if UAL93 was in the radar "silence" region, as drawn by the Pilots on a map of the northeastern US.

And the most simple thing was done by the planners :
They just took a piece of the FDR, flight data recorder, from the decoy (with the 4.500 meters altitude), and combined it with the last part from the UAL93 FDR, and combined that altered FDR with the CVR, cockpit voice recorder, from UAL93, as if both originally were recovered from UAL93.

And altered the CVR from UAL93 just a tad bit, to make it all more heroic and patriotically useful, afterwards.
The emergency calls were all genuine, just not the last words of the "hijackers", see the NTSB translation of the CVR.

Flight UAL93.

NTSB FDR study :
www.ntsb.gov...
Another NTSB FDR study :
www.ntsb.gov...

NTSB CVR study :
www.ntsb.gov...
Another NTSB CVR page :
www.ntsb.gov...

Remember before you loose contact with reality, my recent posts regarding the theory, that UAL93 was meant to smash into the lower floors of WTC 7. And this theory unearthed new conspiracies, like a tampered with FDR and CVR from UAL93. The Shanksville plane :

Whistleblower Reveals :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

LaBTop :
We would like to see you prove to us please, how it is possible at all, that there are great differences in timestamps as you propose in your quote above, in the period from UAL93 Newark take-off time, until start of the 30 minutes endless looped CVR (cockpit voice recorder) and the period DURING the 30 minutes recording loop of the CVR.

See my post about NO discrepancies AFTER the hijack event at 09:31:55, between Captain Clocked timestamps and outside sources timestamps (FAA controllers AND the ACARS) :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The fact that the ACARS messages timestamps, before and after the hijack event, do not differ, is telling something, don't you think so? Because if you are right about big discrepancies during normal flight in timestamps, then WHY do they not turn up in the ACARS?
Either the first normal flight part, or the hijacked part of the DFDR or/and CVR is thus tampered with.

I think you have just proved to yourself that your official story-trusted stance is based on a big fat official Whacker (a giant official LIE).

That hijack-period covered in the CVR, does not show any significant discrepancies between the Captains Clock controlled devices, and any external time measuring devices (ACARS, FAA controllers logbooks) EXCEPT that seismic stations (plural!) and FAA controllers all say that the plane crashed 3 minutes later (10:06 AM) than the officially pushed timestamp of 10:03 AM.

When you discovered great timestamp discrepancies in that first period from take-off at Newark until the hijack event, during which ONLY the original pilots were at the controls, than YOU have proved to us that the CVR is tampered with, since that one does not show up for sure, any significant differences between Captain's Clock and outside sources.

And I know, one of the other Trusters will contemplate to come up with the excuse that the first deed of the hijackers, after overtaking the plane, was to reset the Captains Clock.
Do you mind, when I sincerely doubt the sanity of anyone coming up with that excuse, when I would be confronted with such a lame excuse?
It would show up in the DFDR. Which it doesn't.

This is why I proposed a, partly tampered with, NTSB study device.
The part where the UAL pilots were at the helm, were genuine, but the last 30 minutes of the CVR were partly, or totally altered.

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by cLOUDDEAD

 

Then around 2:15 the same guy says two times exactly the same "I'll try and get word"", and that is definitely a rewind. That's strange in this video. Hopefully there was not something covered up, over what Hess shouted, by that rewind.
The other guy then points up with his handhold device and the leaving guy definitely says exactly this : ""7 World Trade, a fall-in.""

And definitely not :""I'll call it in."

edit on 18/9/10 by LaBTop because: Changed those VLF sounds occurancies to the real ones.

LaBTop, I must first say I am very interested in your thread, as I have many doubts about the 'Official Story'. However, I am quite sure that the person said "I'll call it in." I listened to it on external speakers as well as studio quality professional headphones. I have studied and worked as an audio engineer.

Please don't let something as trivial as this cast shadows on the rest of your excellent research. It just makes me a little sad to see people try and make things fit into their preconceived notions of what happened that day.

Much respect to you, but please don't be afraid to admit that you could be wrong, and please remember that our ultimate goal is the truth, WHATEVER that truth may be.

WTC seven is twice the size of the next largest (previous world record) controlled demo of a building. I doubt it could be done in the same day... which would seem to give more evidence of Silverstein's pre-planning /pre-meditation.

According to Controlled Demolition Inc's website: www.controlled-demolition.com...

CDI’s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI’s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.

Both buildings were very strong and stiff structures: (more description from CDI's own website)

Double column rows installed in the structure between vertical construction phases, internal brick shear walls, x-bracing, 70 elevators and 10 stairwells created an extremely stiff frame. Columns weighing over 500 lb/ft, having up to 7.25 inch thick laminated steel flanges and 6 inch thick webs, defied commercially available shaped charge technology. CDI analyzed each column, determined the actual load it carried and then used cutting torches to scarf-off steel plates in order to use smaller shaped charges to cut the remaining steel. CDI wanted to keep the charges as small as possible to reduce air over pressure that could break windows in adjacent properties.

Here is a 2minute video of this implosion of the JL Hudson Dept store in Detroit in Oct of 1998: www.youtube.com...

i dunno... looks suspiciously similar to WTC7... dontcha think? Actually, I think WTC7 is quite a bit more uniform of a collapse than the JL Hudson... makes ya wonder how NIST can credibly claim a building fell in on itself due to fire-weakened beams and look better than a deliberate implosion that took several months to engineer... maybe it's just me...

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Alfie1, at further contemplation on what you said, could it have been the other way up or down, a decoy plane, and UAL93?

Could it have been UAL93 already, which was already on its way to home Base again, in a low altitude pattern, when the passengers, who did not know this intention, broke in the cockpit and disturbed the whole planning.
And the plane went down, instead of returning safely. All witnessed by Viola Sailor, her sister and Mr Petersen in Lambertsville.

And the decoy plane flew at 4.500 meters above that Lambertsville streets junction, as seen in the NTSB and FAA and radar reports.

The transponder switch had already taken place,dammit!

UAL93 switched off, and descended, and the decoy plane switched the transponder on and ascended.
I have to find that report back from the early Pilots for Truth forum, and see if UAL93 was in the radar "silence" region, as drawn by the Pilots on a map of the northeastern US.

And the most simple thing was done by the planners :
They just took a piece of the FDR, flight data recorder, from the decoy (with the 4.500 meters altitude), and combined it with the last part from the UAL93 FDR, and combined that altered FDR with the CVR, cockpit voice recorder, from UAL93, as if both originally were recovered from UAL93.

And altered the CVR from UAL93 just a tad bit, to make it all more heroic and patriotically useful, afterwards.
The emergency calls were all genuine, just not the last words of the "hijackers", see the NTSB translation of the CVR.

LaBTop, that is just so convoluted it cannot possibly be true. Only a madman would plan such a scenario.

I see no reason to invent a "decoy plane " .

What you have in fact done, by drawing attention to UA 93's course change at 0959, is further substantiate the OS account that the passengers were on the point of broaching the cockpit which is why the hi-jackers put the plane down. If you consider the course change at 0959 relative to the Cockpit Voice Recorder transcript you get this at 0958.57 " They want to get in there. Hold, hold from the inside, Hold from the inside, Hold". Pretty dramatic stuff , from I would guess the hi-jacker posted outside the cabin door, and 3 seconds before the course change.


i.a.cnn.net...

The course change at that precise point is just further testimony to the hi-jackers increasing desperation. The idea of a calm planned course change at that point just doesn't hold water.

reply to post by LaBTop


I always wondered about looking at the flight paths of 93 and figuring you the timing of events to understand what it's ACTUAL target would have been.

Building 7 was a mistake -- the airplane never made it -- which helps prove the Demolition theory, because they would have to collapse it whether hit or not. There were OTHER buildings that got slammed by the WTC debris and caught fire and HAD TO BE DEMOLISHED LATER -- but NONE collapsed.

>> if 93 had hit WTC 7 (and how could anyone PREDICT the planes would have brought down Buildings 1 and 2?), then we'd have 3 buildings hit by planes and it would be MUCH HARDER to prove a conspiracy.

So the head of security of the FAA -- for some reason never explained -- destroyed the radar tapes of 9/11 and has never been punished for it. Nobody has been punished for 9/11 but the American public.

Flight 93 somehow broke up in mid air right after some passengers took control of it. Such that it disintegrated into the ground but parts were found a couple miles away.

>> My thought; AFTER the passengers took control, the minions working for Bush and his cabal had to have the plane shot down -- because we would have live hijackers and maybe some equipment on the plane that could not be explained. If we had any LIVE hijackers, I'm sure someone would dig Jack Ruby out of the ground so that he could patriotically kill them before the got to say something embarassing.

reply to post by Alfie1


Alfie; I have trouble with ANY explanation of what happened on 9/11 because we have NOT had an actual investigation. Nothing but lies from the Bush administration and the NIST -- ONLY where we have video and information from OTHER SOURCES, is there any information forthcoming.

The government did NOT tell us that NORAD was confused, or of the 3 training missions, or of the Free-Fall collapse of WTC 7 until AFTER other information brought it forth.

The administration has buried, burned, hidden everything concerning 9.11 to their best extent possible at every turn. They've obstructed justice, and put loyalists to them at the top of the NIST and the "experts" looking into the collapse. Their own Committee to investigate it, was YEARS after the event, and the 9/11 Commssion said that they were "stonewalled at every turn."


>> The idea that a Decoy plane could switch ON a transponder while passing flight 93 (turning it off) -- that doesn't sound so far-fetched or difficult. I've always wondered that all the discrepancies of "Plane or rocket attack or merely an explosive charge" at the Pentagon, could easily be explained by having the commercial airplane fly over the Pentagon while setting off a charge -- nobody would be looking at a low-flying plane on the other side when a huge explosion is going off.

But it doesn't matter; all evidence has been tampered with. All video tapes THAT WERE NOT given to us by citizens, are missing. We have one security camera from the Pentagon and we KNOW OF, many that were confiscated. Why would they NOT release these other video tapes to prove the government theory? It would be so easy. Whether or not a plane hit the Pentagon -- it doesn't prove who did or didn't do it, nor was it much more than a symbolic attack. We've had more people killed in a traffic accident. Why would they give a damn about the people on board a plane? Just get a hold of the override for the computer from the FAA and make sure that the pilots could not be awake to stop you -- why would the Bush administration which has killed millions in it's resource wars, sold our country to Business concerns -- bother with a missile?

Rumsfeld could have brought in the briefcase himself with all the clearance he had and all the crap "special projects" got away with, or they could have hijacked a busload of kids -- I just don't see that keeping a man like Dick Cheney awake at night.

>> Speculation just gives the BushCo loyalists and propagandist shills more ammunition to make "truther's" look like fools. What we need is a movement for TRUTH itself, and demand video, demand steel from the ares that were "cut" by the explosion from the WTC -- demand EVIDENCE for the nonsense the government told us.

>> BUT IF YOU WANT SPECULATION, HERE IS MINE:

We act as if the Bush administration was ever caught telling the truth. The only defense is; "There is no way these people were competent enough to create a false flag event -- nor keep it secret -- no way." Well, BushCo managed to steal an election, and I think we are all arguing about this "SECRET" -- in a non-secret way, right? And besides, it would make sense that someone from the Bush family would out-source that job like everything else in America.

Why did people from Saudi Arabia and not US citizens attack America on 9/11? Because the economic royalists don't want to PAY MORE for American workers. Duping some people from Al Qaeda into doing your dirty work would be relatively easy, because all the cells are not aware of anyone but their one contact. Telling one cell to attack America and giving them resources would NOT cause them to be suspicious.

BushCo NEEDED an attack on America. Like they NEEDED weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. So they got an al Qaeda cell to attack Americans with some double agent, and sent them down to Florida where there are plenty of covert bases and airstrips and Jeb bush around to make sure they got all the help they needed.

They flew actual planes into buildings, just as OUTLINED in Operation Northwoods, but those planes were GUIDED by the normal equipment on the plane with the FAA codes. They had the technology to steer planes back in the late '60s or why else would Northwoods be signed off on by the Join Chiefs and needed to be vetoed by JFK? You don't have to add anything FANCY to the planes. You don't need special pilots or remote control devices. It's already on these planes -- they just don't use it to take off and land. If you have the government and some head honchos at the FAA you are set.

A charge or a missile might have been added to the Pentagon -- maybe a plane flew into it. But NO WAY could a plane penetrate those walls of the Pentagon. We are to believe that flight 93 disintegrated into the soft earth -- well, a steel reinforced concrete wall is a lot HARDER. But -- all I want is all the video from around the Pentagon. There is nothing to prove with that incident other than WHY was there a cover-up and a removal of all the video tapes of cameras that pointed to that wall?

Just make sure NORAD doesn't get in your way -- and what did we see at NORAD? Confusion and 3 drills being conducted by Dick Cheney; the ONLY thing he did in the whole time he was in office that related to "drills."

The setting of charges was only to MAKE SURE that the attack had a real impact on the American psyche. Planes just catching a few floors on fire would not do the trick. So they set charges.

However, Building 7 had to be destroyed for some strategic reason -- it doesn't fit the pattern nor was it necessary. I have to think it had something to do with ENRON, and a Federal case against the Bush family that had its evidence stored there -- or maybe something else. Building 7 cannot be explained by the airplanes, nor by the "collapse theory" based on the curtain wall of the North and South towers -- it was a standard steel reinforced office building.

They made plenty of mistakes however. And the things that "don't fit" seem to back that up. The destruction of FAA tapes and flight 93 so that nobody would find out it needed to be destroyed AFTER the hijackers lost control. Radar blips of something streaking towards the plane perhaps? Maybe other planes in the air diverting. Maybe a whole lot of Random Radar blips being thrown out to confuse NORAD?

The technology to make a false radar echo is in the Pentagon's arsenal. But it's not worth speculating about.

>> We also need to investigate the demise of "Brewster-Jennings." I remember reading a story that this group intercepted some VX nerve gas going to Iraq, packed in "Carlysle" boxes (a large weapons dealing group that has ex-presidents and Prime Ministers on it's board -- along with members of the Bin Laden family and which met on 9/10/2001 and had people allowed to leave on 9/12/2001 without the FBI being able to interview them). Allegedly, the covert group Valerie Plame was working for (Brewster-Jennings) stopped actual WMDs from entering into Iraq.

So Valerie Plame might have been burned as vengeance for Donald Rumsfeld not getting his PROOF of WMDs.

>> Regardless of 9/11 -- it was clear to me that many in the Bush administration were committing rampant acts of treason and working against the interests of the AMERICAN PEOPLE (the military and the Pentagon are NOT the Commons).

>> The Energy Task Force Meeting, held by Dick Cheney, likely had all the oil companies who are NOW in control of Iraqi's oil -- the exact same group that Saddam kicked out.

There are probably a lot of ultra patriots that were convinced this was about America getting power over the evil middle east -- but it's really just about Power for the Powerful. There is no agenda but that -- there are no countries, their is just a consuming and never satisfied group of Economic Royalists who pit poor person against poor person and sell them the weapons. They ran out of good stuff to steal in Latin America so the PNAC group started ripping us off here.

>> Another undoing is GREED. That guy who leased the WTC from the Ports Authority, would probably have to spend about $2 billion if they were still standing removing Asbestos. With the collapse and the DOUBLING of the insurance in July of 2001 -- he made $7 Billion in pure profit -- pretty smart for a guy who leased an albatross that would cost more in required repairs than he would make on renting it.

>> And I would investigate money transfers for the group that was paid to investigate the WTC for demolitions. I would also want to know WHO was hired as security guards/maintenance workers for the WTC 6 months before the collapse -- and where are they now and are they dead or extremely rich?

There is a paper trail folks -- and what we need is a full accounting -- which we do not have and are NOT allowed to have with the Obama administration. Why not? What sword of Damocles his over his head? And WHEN is Dick Cheney's executive assassination squad going to be de-commissioned?