It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Who am I?

page: 1
8

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:30 AM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I was a Liberal in 2001 when Bush sat for 7 minutes twiddling his thumbs as the country was under attack.
I was a Liberal when 13 days later the USA Patriot Act was introduced to Congress.
I was a Liberal when Bush sent our Nation's Finest to Iraq.
I was a Liberal in 2004 when I felt it was time to get rid of the neocons.

I became indifferent to politicos on the left in 2004 when John Kerry opened his mouth and George W. Bush came out.
I was angry when the left kept funding the war in Iraq after they took power in 2006.
I found out what Barney Frank and his ilk were up to in 2006...In late 2007 through late 2008 I got to see where that got us.

I was a Liberal up to October of 2008, by November of 2008 I was just another unhappy American, unhappy with the choices the country had been given...By day one of 2009 the Constitution ceased to matter altogether.

By February of 2009 I was no longer a Liberal, Somehow, some way, I became a Conservative.
March of 2009 I was convinced Bush had gotten a tan and a new identity.
By October of 2009 Obama had already made public his new assassination program.
March of 2010: Obama's policies had not diverted at all from the Bush administration, all while the Obama administration continued to blame the Bush administration for the same problems the same policies were augmenting.
Today, nothing has changed...It's gotten worse.

The truth of the matter is that I was never a Liberal or a Conservative. I've always found my guidance in the Constitution as far as what government should be doing. The last 12 years or so I've begun to see the true colors of Neo-Cons and Progressive Liberals.

Don't listen to the media. Turn off Fox and MSNBC because they're lying to you. During the Bush administration it was the Liberal left that was screaming about Constitutional abuses. Today it is the right. The only people who mean it are the Tea Partiers, and lo and behold, the Neo-cons and Progressives hate them.

Folks, depending on who is in power, it seems, I'm either labeled "left" or labeled "right". I'm not falling for it again. I'm not letting these people use the Constitution, use real life suffering, use my money to fund their corruption. And you shouldn't either.

The Liberals I once defended on this site as they fought the abuse of the right during the past decade have been defending the abuses of their side as justifiable today. And the things the Conservatives once hailed as necessary policy are now being derided as liberal fascism.

So many have lost perspective. They just want the other guy to lose so bad, they want so much to be part of the soap opera, that they would ignore the injury done to them by the very people the rooted for. I know it's a cliche, but please, for the love of God, stand on principle! Stand on moral ground! Not on party, or binary ideology.

Figure out who you are, not who idiots on TV want you to be.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.











edit on 17-9-2010 by projectvxn because: I felt the need to not punish people with spelling errors.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:38 AM
link   
Great post.

Unfortunately, the constitution allows for most everything that's been done to the people of this country by both political parties. It's not the mythical divine law that generations have thought was infallible, it's just another legal document that can be skirted, twisted and mutilated by greasy politicians and lawyers.


Maybe it's time for a re-write...



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


The Constitution does not allow the government to spy on American citizens. The Constitution does not allow government to bailout Wall St. The Constitution does not allow the assassination of American citizens. The Constitution does not allow the government to mandate the purchase of products in private industry.

The problem is that both sides look to truncate the meaning of the Constitution, to move as far away from Original Intent as possible so as to keep power, and all the fruits of their corruption. This is why understanding history in context with how the Constitution was written is so important.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by projectvxn
 


But don't get fooled again.
Look at the letter R next to the Tea Parties.
Look who is funding the Tea Parties.
You sound more like an Independent letter I.
But you can't be part of the in crowd with the letter I can you?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   

S&F




Originally posted by projectvxn
March of 2010: Obama's policies had not diverted at all from the Bush administration, all while the Obama administration continued to blame the Bush administration for the same problems the same policies were augmenting.
Today, nothing has changed...It's gotten worse.


good observation. what percentage of national policies do you believe are determined by international and/or multinational interests?

me? i believe more than 50% of american policy is strongly influenced by external agenda(s).



Don't listen to the media. Turn off Fox and MSNBC because they're lying to you.


they serve as a psychological deterrant, not entirely a lie, but a way to convey the truisms from perspectives that serve their intentionalities, making their audiences an extension of their wills.
but their catchy slogans are code for their tells.



During the Bush administration it was the Liberal left that was screaming about Constitutional abuses.


Constitutional abuses? i am not convinced that martial law is required to abide by constitutional standards. furthermore, no where in the rule book does it state that when martial law is invoked that the government is obligated to announce it simultaneously to hundreds of millions of people. this is not how martial law works, nor would it serve the purpose of what martial law exists for: when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety.



Today it is the right. The only people who mean it are the Tea Partiers, and lo and behold, the Neo-cons and Progressives hate them.


The Tea Party is the result of what happens when the Republicans' Grand Ol Party has wore/war out it's good name.



Folks, depending on who is in power....


an analogy:
it seems to me people are too distracted trying to blame, root for, or take over the steering wheel that they are not paying enough attention to who is building the roadways and streets.
.


Figure out who you are, not who idiots on TV want you to be.


how many laws dictate what i can breath and where i can breath it?
how many laws dictate what i can eat, or put in my mouth?
how many laws dictate what i can drink and where i can drink it?
how many laws dictate what i can grow and where i can grow it?

free will is extinct.

these are some of my thoughts on the current american situation.


really nice thread projectvxn. thank you for sharing.

appreciative,
et



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 12:33 PM
link   
Well done recruit, if there's one thing the Major can admire about the rank and file is when one rises above the din and starts taking the lead. No apologies for being a constitutionalist in the Major's book, the Major would rather have a "C" by the Major's name than an "R," "I, " or General George S. Patton forbid, a "D." It has boiled down to an "us vs. them" scenario as far as the establishment versus the citizenry.

The Major is inclined to believe that you would be a good candidate for OCS.

Dismissed.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 12:43 PM
link   
The Constitution's purpose is to protect the free actions of individuals from interference by government. It has failed in it's mission to accomplish this goal.

The federal government has become an entirely unnecessary entity that should be disbanded.

I think the best situation at the present is for the States to disband the federal government and not re-instate it. I think simple free trade and mutual protection treaties between all the states would suffice in place of having a standing federal body.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 03:18 PM
link   
reply to post by projectvxn
 


You leave me no other choice but to call you a Lefty, Liberal, Commie, Socialist, Facist, Right-Wing Nut, Tea-Bag, Conservative Loony....

Good OP by the way.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 07:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


The Constitution does not allow the government to spy on American citizens. The Constitution does not allow government to bailout Wall St. The Constitution does not allow the assassination of American citizens. The Constitution does not allow the government to mandate the purchase of products in private industry.


Oh but it does. There is no text in the Constitution forbidding those things.

The Constitution gives Congress the power to write any law they feel necessary and only a small list of things they cannot do.


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
.......
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.



Section 9 - Limits on Congress

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.



posted on Oct, 1 2010 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


So you quoted Section 8 and 9 without breaking down where that authority lies. If you're going to use the Constitution this way you need to know how to read it. Nearly every sentence in the Constitution is a clause.

Section 8:


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
.......
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


The Necessary and Proper clause. Necessary(Laws which support the defense, general welfare of, and rights of the people) and Proper(where it fits in to the Constitution and other applicable and proper law)

Section 9:


Section 9 - Limits on Congress

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.


I have no idea why you would use section 9 as an example of limitless Congressional power being supported by this Constitution. You might as well have posted the Bill of Rights as such an example.



edit on 1-10-2010 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 12:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by projectvxn
 


You leave me no other choice but to call you a Lefty, Liberal, Commie, Socialist, Facist, Right-Wing Nut, Tea-Bag, Conservative Loony....

Good OP by the way.


Wish I would have said that, sounds like me, but hey it changes from day to day, or more like minute to minute.

Great opening post projectvxn. S&F



new topics

top topics



 
8

log in

join