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9/11 OS Challenge..

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posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by CynicalM
Mate, you only care about one forum and only post in them...

Cheers

No, I only post in this forum as Phage is for example much better than me at Space Exploration etc. Perhaps you need to re-read my post:

Originally posted by exponent
I do read other forums, General Conspiracies and Space Exploration mostly, but I have never been much of a social poster. I do review 'top threads' from time to time, but without meaning to be offensive, some of them are truly out of this world crazy.


So you like to debate, but the only topic you find suitable for debate is 9/11 threads, which you like to debunk.




posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
So you like to debate, but the only topic you find suitable for debate is 9/11 threads, which you like to debunk.

Pretty much accurate. I am sick of creationists, moon landings, and I don't know enough about JFK. I sometimes debate on political forums, but they're quite boring too. I like debates with complex issues where we genuinely might not know the answer to some questions.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by exponent
 

Maybe if you knew more about why JFK was assassinated (his opposition to the Vietnam war, secret societies and his threat to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces"), you'd better understand 9/11.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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How come no truthers are actually debating six sigmas evidence. There's even a few truthers saying debunkers shouldn't be on this board? Is that How truthers debate? Real evidence to the contrary is presented and the responses are questioning posters reasons? You ask so much from debunkers but you'll accept complete conjecture as fact


Every truther response has been pure conjecture. Just because these armchair scientists think pictures don't make sense In their heads there is a conspiracy.

People have shown the evidence and its ignored. Typical truthers behavior. Their lives are so investedin it they can't possibly be wrong.


edit on 25-9-2010 by drock905 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 



It is ludicrous to insist that this kind of debris could have been carried eight miles on al light breeze,


The paper in this video has traveled 2 miles to reach the spot where this video was taken. Notice there is still a whole lot paper at altitude continuing on down wind.




posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by waypastvne
 



It is ludicrous to insist that this kind of debris could have been carried eight miles on al light breeze,



The paper in this video has traveled 2 miles to reach the spot where this video was taken. Notice there is still a whole lot paper at altitude continuing on down wind.


I'm sure I don't need to tell you there is a HUGE difference between 8 miles and 2 miles...
I thinks it's 400%...

Though the OS does tend to stretch the imagination into the realm of fantasy on many topics...



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Maybe if you knew more about why JFK was assassinated (his opposition to the Vietnam war, secret societies and his threat to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces"), you'd better understand 9/11.

Unfortunately this is a typical response. I may not understand everything about JFK but I certainly do understand that in politics there are always well financed groups that disagree with you on major topics.

However, this is not sufficient evidence to prove anything, and while I have no doubt that this sort of thing went on, I very much doubt it provides any convincing evidence for anything regarding 911.


Originally posted by CynicalM
I'm sure I don't need to tell you there is a HUGE difference between 8 miles and 2 miles...
I thinks it's 400%...

Though the OS does tend to stretch the imagination into the realm of fantasy on many topics...

Are you now the arbiter of how far paper can fly on the wind? You make some interesting claims about the 'official story'. In my experience, it is conspiracy theories that seem to embolden their supporters into being able to authoritatively claim what's possible in any situation.

Oh look, what a surprise.


edit on 25-9-2010 by exponent because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by Deuteronomy 23:13
Why don't you debunkers just ignore the truth movement? Are you afraid that the american people are so stupid that if you didn't counter truther arguements then the american people would start to believe in the myriad of conspiracy theories? Doesn't a wise man avoid getting into arguements with fools? You debunkers can not have it both ways: Either the 911 conpiracy theories are tripe and hence not worthy of attention or their is something to them.

What has made me suspicious of the government more than anything else is the behavior of the debunkers. If the government would have given a plausible and definitive explaination of the events of that day.there would be no debate today. By debating the truthers you actually give them credibility.

Truther numbers seem to be growing. Iran's President talked a little about 911 conpiracy theories in the UN just the other day.

Time wounds all heals. And, according to Dante at least, the deepest pits of hell are reserved for traitors.

So, debunkers, ignore the truth movement! Display integrity. I dare you!


Truthers should do the same and this entire board should be closed.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Maybe if you knew more about why JFK was assassinated (his opposition to the Vietnam war, secret societies and his threat to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces"), you'd better understand 9/11.


It has long been my assertion that the 9/11 conspiracy proponents aren't newcomers to conspiracies, but rather, are people who've subscribed to one or more other conspiracies long before 9/11 (I.E. JFK assassination, moon landing hoax, FDR knowing about Pearl Harbor, etc), and are instinctively viewing 9/11 through conspiracy colored glasses. This is why they'd go to these damned fool conspiracy web sites to begin with, and that's why they'd mindlessly swallow the just plain bad information they're churning out.

Once in a while, it's nice to see one of my predictions turning out to be true.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Just a refresher for the truthers




Originally posted by Six Sigma
1) The four hijackers purchased tickets under their own names and boarded the plane. One was randomly selected for and passed additional security screening. Ziad Jarrah was a licensed pilot and had recent training on professional large jet flight simulators. United flight 93 was scheduled to depart at 8:00 am, but left 42 minutes late due to airport traffic. Aboard were 33 passengers, 7 crew members, and 4 hijackers.

Ziad Jarrah

Ziad Jarrah Video



2) Several passengers and crew called from the plane, spoke with loved ones, described the hijackers' attack, and related their plan to try to retake the plane so that it would not be used as a suicide weapon against a populated area. All but two of these calls were made using the plane's seatback Airfones.



911 Operator Talks about Conversation with Todd Beamer

Another Story from 911 Operators

911 Operator John Shaw Interview

Passenger Tom Burnetts Last Call to his Wife


3) The cockpit voice recorder recorded the hijackers' attack and apparent murder of the pilots and a flight attendant. Air traffic controllers heard a radio transmission by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him.



Warning: Graphic


4) After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording.

Jury Hears Tape From CVR During Moussaoui Trial

5) Flight 93 was tracked by radar until it went down.

FDR Report Flight 93

ATC Report Flight 93

Flight Path Study Flight 93

6) Many people in Pennsylvania saw the Boeing 757, traveling at low altitude and high speed, roll to the right and plummet upside-down, nose first, towards the ground. Many people witnessed the subsequent enormous explosion and fireball. Val McClatchey photographed the mushroom cloud.



7) Hundreds of first responders (mostly volunteer firefighters) and crime scene investigators were quickly on the scene. They saw human remains, aircraft wreckage, personal effects, jet fuel, etc.
The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were recovered and had usable data, all of which is consistent with the other evidence.

source

8) The remains of every victim was positively identified. Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller personally collected many remains and made 12 identifications through fingerprints and dental records. Personal effects of most passengers and crew were recovered and returned to their families.

source

9) Hijacker identification documents and personal effects were recovered, along with the remains of four people identified as the hijackers through the process of elimination.

source

10) Nearly all of the aircraft was recovered by professional investigators and by civilians. The debris was returned to United Airlines after being examined for evidence of explosives use.

source



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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I'm sure I don't need to tell you there is a HUGE difference between 8 miles and 2 miles...
I thinks it's 400%...




Notice there is still a whole lot paper at altitude continuing on down wind.

The debris field was strait downwind of the crash site. This is not a coincidence,


Indian Lake Marina - where most of the witness accounts come from - is 2.3 miles from the crash site.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



It has long been my assertion that the 9/11 conspiracy proponents aren't newcomers to conspiracies, but rather, are people who've subscribed to one or more other conspiracies long before 9/11 (I.E. JFK assassination, moon landing hoax, FDR knowing about Pearl Harbor, etc),


Dave, please feel free to go through every post I've ever written and then come back and tell me what conspiracies I have come up with...

Answer, none, nadah, zilch!!!

Questioning what we are told because the evidence given doesn't fit is NOT considered a conspiracy....
By your logic we should all just sit back and accept what the Goverment tells us without question...

But you know what? Everyone in Goverment are mere mortals like you and me.
They make mistakes, they lie, they cheat, they steal, just like normal people...

We are expected to question them, they are expected to answer. Hell, thats what WE pay them for....



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by wcitizen
So you like to debate, but the only topic you find suitable for debate is 9/11 threads, which you like to debunk.

Pretty much accurate. I am sick of creationists, moon landings, and I don't know enough about JFK. I sometimes debate on political forums, but they're quite boring too. I like debates with complex issues where we genuinely might not know the answer to some questions.


So, in what sense are 9/11 threads different? You seem to have decided that the OS is true, which, if that's accurate, would mean you're not looking for answers, so I would have thought you'd find 9/11 very boring?



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by drock905
How come no truthers are actually debating six sigmas evidence. There's even a few truthers saying debunkers shouldn't be on this board? Is that How truthers debate? Real evidence to the contrary is presented and the responses are questioning posters reasons? You ask so much from debunkers but you'll accept complete conjecture as fact


Every truther response has been pure conjecture. Just because these armchair scientists think pictures don't make sense In their heads there is a conspiracy.

People have shown the evidence and its ignored. Typical truthers behavior. Their lives are so investedin it they can't possibly be wrong.


edit on 25-9-2010 by drock905 because: (no reason given)




You guys all seem to use the same tactics. You often start by asserting a fallacy. In this case, yours is:

"How come no truthers are actually debating six sigmas evidence."

I actually posted a reply myself, and haven't had a reply back from Sigma. I am assuming you did actually read the thread before making your accusation, so I am left with the impression that it doesn't matter to you whether what you say is true or not, as long as it might discredit the truthers.

"Every truther response has been pure conjecture"

Same tactic. State a fallacy as a fact, in the belief that at least some people will believe you. Now, just because some of the debunkers are well trained in NLP and other disinfo tactics, doesn't make them any more a scientist than anyone else, nor better qualified to evaluate 9/11 evidence.

"Real evidence to the contrary is presented and the responses are questioning posters reasons?"

Actually, I have yet to see any real evidence. What I see is people repeating aspects of the OS.

What I see a lot of is debunkers stating theories and fallacies as fact (your own post being a shining example of this), with great confidence, laced with plenty of insults - for the most part, they don't discuss, they browbeat - just as you do in this post.

In what way have you actually contributed to the debate? In what way have you shown why you believe the OS to be true - which, in case you hadn't understood, is what this thread is about?

Which aspect of the OS are you presenting, with an explanation of why you believe it is the truth?

From my reading of what you have just written, it's just a string of unfounded criticisms of truthers themselves - which is totally OFF TOPIC.

But then, that's the objective, isn't it, to disrupt and derail the 9/11 topics.

So, let me reiterate the invitation which is actually the TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. Share your pearls of wisdom with us and explain why you think the OS is unquestionably true.


edit on 25-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




edit on 25-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
So, in what sense are 9/11 threads different? You seem to have decided that the OS is true, which, if that's accurate, would mean you're not looking for answers, so I would have thought you'd find 9/11 very boring?

Sometimes I do. If you go through my posting history extensively enough, you'll notice I usually focus on a few threads, and there are big gaps in my posting.

Sometimes I don't, and I post here during my usual internet browsing. It's not like I spend long on here or impact my everyday life or anything. Just a relatively interesting hobby.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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To the debunkers.

What evidence is there that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks?



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 



What evidence is there that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks?


I'n not a truther or debunker, I'm a "questioner"
but I can answer that in 3 words..

none,nadah,zilch



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Given the high standards that Truthers demand from debunkers when having their own theories scrutinised, it's notable that they apparently fall into all the same bad habits that they continuously accuse others of.

Nobody has really attempted to engage with what Six Sigma wrote, or to disprove any of his points.


Ahem, see freedom12 post, just before yours.
second line.


edit on 25-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by wcitizen
 



It is ludicrous to insist that this kind of debris could have been carried eight miles on al light breeze,


The paper in this video has traveled 2 miles to reach the spot where this video was taken. Notice there is still a whole lot paper at altitude continuing on down wind.





Did you read my post, or is this selective memory loss?

The debris which was found at 6 miles and 8 miles from the crash site included much more than paper. It included: bone, plastic, parts of the airplane, human remains, burning cushions. I mean, have you actually read what I wrote, or are you simply pulling any old excuse out of thin air without a moment of serious thought?

This is so very typical of debunkers. The intention is not to look at the facts and have a reasonable discussion, it is simply to twist information to avoid the real evidence.

Now, perhaps you would like to explain

a) How that kind of debris could have been carried 6 or 8 miles on a 9 knot light breeze?

b) How debris could have been falling on the lake just minutes after the explosion?


edit on 25-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)




edit on 25-9-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by wcitizen
So, in what sense are 9/11 threads different? You seem to have decided that the OS is true, which, if that's accurate, would mean you're not looking for answers, so I would have thought you'd find 9/11 very boring?

Sometimes I do. If you go through my posting history extensively enough, you'll notice I usually focus on a few threads, and there are big gaps in my posting.

Sometimes I don't, and I post here during my usual internet browsing. It's not like I spend long on here or impact my everyday life or anything. Just a relatively interesting hobby.


Right!

second line.



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