Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Ending child support would simply shift the burden of support onto the state.

We live in a time/place where this is the mindset. It won't end.

My mom raised me without child support. My father died owing her 25k in arrears (the sum total of his support obligations from my age 6 till 18). She just worked harder and taught me to be more resourceful. She is from a nearly extinct mindset, though.

Sad, but very true.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Ending child support would simply shift the burden of support onto the state.

It is a lot better when state bears the burden than when an individual does so unjustly (as is sometimes the case in current system). Of course someone has to pay for the kid in the end, but when the burden is spread among millions of taxpayers it doesnt really bother anyone.

reply to post by Maslo


It bothers me.

I run a business. I have had, on many occasions, a female employee quit because they are expecting a child and plan to leverage that child (along with other children) for public assistance to support her family.

As a libertarian, I am not very tolerant of the public teets.

This lawsuit is just as much a waste of our "justice" system as the McDonalds hot coffee one , abortion is wrong and humans need to learn to stop having sex for fun.. Sex is to have children and if you have it then you better except what comes next . I do however feel that there should be something against women who seek out their children's fathers for money. All in all I hope he wins his case :/

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by joechip

 

You know what? This makes total sense. Of course people will say this is a contingency plan for dead beat dads and discussing this you run the risk of being labeled a misognist. However, it just makes sense, when women said "keep your hand's off of my body" it became their choice to have a child or not. Only the woman has the final say. Therefore how can the man be held responsible?

Exactly.

This is one of the issues of women's lib that I never understood. How can a woman say "My Body, My Choice, My Right", but then asks for tax payers to help fund the decisions of Her Body, Her Choice, Her Right? These decisions of hers result in Planned Parenthood care, abortion, STD testing, contraception, State Child Support, and welfare.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by joechip

 

You know what? This makes total sense. Of course people will say this is a contingency plan for dead beat dads and discussing this you run the risk of being labeled a misognist. However, it just makes sense, when women said "keep your hand's off of my body" it became their choice to have a child or not. Only the woman has the final say. Therefore how can the man be held responsible?

Exactly.

This is one of the issues of women's lib that I never understood. How can a woman say "My Body, My Choice, My Right", but then asks for tax payers to help fund the decisions of Her Body, Her Choice, Her Right? These decisions of hers result in Planned Parenthood care, abortion, STD testing, contraception, State Child Support, and welfare.

This certainly is a tough one. As for men seeking the right to decline fatherhood...why didn't they do everything in their means to prevent a pregnancy in the first place, i.e. wearing condoms (all the time!) or getting a vasectomy?

reply to post by InTheLight


Why would result of a pregnancy would be only the man's fault? why..women don't wants sex?

So if a women gets pregnant its man's fault? why didn't SHE prevent the pregnancy? why didn't SHE "WOMEN UP"? Why didn't SHE take responsibility?

Oh right because she has the justice system by the balls, and knows she will win if it goes to court..


lmao, please stop i'm dieing of the obvious double standard..

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

What would result of a pregnancy would be only the man's fault? why..women don't wants sex?

So if a women gets pregnant its man's fault? lmao, please stop i'm dieing of the obvious double standard..

Why shouldn't it be the man's responsibility, if he is the one who doesn't want a child?

reply to post by InTheLight


SO let me get this straight..

Two people having sex, women becomes pregnant.

2 Option:

Women decides to enjoy her youth and party again, gets abortion, and continues, no harm done.

Women decides to Keep the baby, while the man doesn't, so she ruins his life?

Why does one get away with a "choice" while the other has no choice? while it took two to make a baby.

Why can't i sue her for taking my sperm and making a baby with it?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

SO let me get this straight..

Two people having sex, women becomes pregnant.

2 Option:

Women decides to enjoy her youth and party again, gets abortion, and continues, no harm done.

Women decides to Keep the baby, while the man doesn't, so she ruins his life?

Why does one get away with a "choice" while the other has no choice? while it took two to make a baby.

Why can't i sue her for taking my sperm and making a baby with it?

You didn't answer my question above.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

What would result of a pregnancy would be only the man's fault? why..women don't wants sex?

So if a women gets pregnant its man's fault? lmao, please stop i'm dieing of the obvious double standard..

Why shouldn't it be the man's responsibility, if he is the one who doesn't want a child?

What we are saying is that before the liberal movement of the 1970/s, it was both the woman and the man's responsibilty to raise a child, whether the pregnacny was planned or not. But then came Roe v Wade, and gave only women the 'right' to their reproductive system. Men currently do not share this right.

Roe v Wade allows women to 'opt' out of parenthood; she can have an abortion or she can give the baby up for adoption- both without the man's consent.

To be fair, men would need to be afforded this right to 'opt out' as well.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

What would result of a pregnancy would be only the man's fault? why..women don't wants sex?

So if a women gets pregnant its man's fault? lmao, please stop i'm dieing of the obvious double standard..

Why shouldn't it be the man's responsibility, if he is the one who doesn't want a child?

What we are saying is that before the liberal movement of the 1970/s, it was both the woman and the man's responsibilty to raise a child, whether the pregnacny was planned or not. But then came Roe v Wade, and gave only women the 'right' to their reproductive system. Men currently do not share this right.

Roe v Wade allows women to 'opt' out of parenthood; she can have an abortion or she can give the baby up for adoption- both without the man's consent.

To be fair, men would need to be afforded this right to 'opt out' as well.

I know exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that due to the man's irresponsibility in not ensuring that pregnancy does not happen in the first place, that this issue would never arise.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

What would result of a pregnancy would be only the man's fault? why..women don't wants sex?

So if a women gets pregnant its man's fault? lmao, please stop i'm dieing of the obvious double standard..

Why shouldn't it be the man's responsibility, if he is the one who doesn't want a child?

What we are saying is that before the liberal movement of the 1970/s, it was both the woman and the man's responsibilty to raise a child, whether the pregnacny was planned or not. But then came Roe v Wade, and gave only women the 'right' to their reproductive system. Men currently do not share this right.

Roe v Wade allows women to 'opt' out of parenthood; she can have an abortion or she can give the baby up for adoption- both without the man's consent.

To be fair, men would need to be afforded this right to 'opt out' as well.

I know exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that due to the man's irresponsibility in not ensuring that pregnancy does not happen in the first place, that this issue would never arise.

But why do you place the 'blame' of the unwanted pregnancy solely on the man? If a woman consents to sex and is not raped, then she is equally at fault.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I'm not disputing irresponsibility in both parties. I am addressing the responsibility of the party that did NOTwant a pregnancy, that being the man, because we really don't know if the woman wanted a pregnancy or not. As per this law suit, the onus was on the man to prevent this event, not the woman.

reply to post by InTheLight

due to the man's irresponsibility in not ensuring that pregnancy does not happen in the first place

Do you even look at what you are saying?

WHY IS IT ONLY MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY?!!!

Last i checked my biology book, men don't carry 100% of the baby. You are saying as if men wanted to have sex and women didn't.. i think that is called rape.

I guess this justice catered to women so much that they can't even see the double standard.

reply to post by InTheLight

we really don't know if the woman wanted a pregnancy or not.

That does not matter, she agreed to have sex, thus accepting pregnancy. does that seem fair? i did not think so.

But she has a choice!

Its like 2 people rob a bank, then one persons tells the court that, they didn't really want to participate in it and they get to walk out.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by InTheLight

 

due to the man's irresponsibility in not ensuring that pregnancy does not happen in the first place

Do you even look at what you are saying?

WHY IS IT ONLY MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY?!!!

Last i checked my biology book, men don't carry 100% of the baby. You are saying as if men wanted to have sex and women didn't.. i think that is called rape.

I guess this justice catered to women so much that they can't even see the double standard.

I'm saying that if a man doesn't want the burdens that come with conceiving a child, then he should take every step available to prevent it from happening in the first place. His decision to leave it up to the woman is irresponsible and that makes him accountable.

reply to post by InTheLight


Absolutely.

BUT....

The main focus here is that just because the woman decides that SHE wants the baby, then she should have it...without being able to mandate responsibilty from the father. This means no state child support.

If its her choice, its HER choice. The man should not be obligated to join in her HER choice of wanting to keep the baby.

HER choice. HER baby.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by InTheLight

 

Absolutely.

BUT....

The main focus here is that just because the woman decides that SHE wants the baby, then she should have it...without being able to mandate responsibilty from the father. This means no state child support.

If its her choice, its HER choice. The man should not be obligated to join in her HER choice of wanting to keep the baby.

HER choice. HER baby.

He would not be able to prove that in court though. So, the onus is again on him to have been responsible in preventing the event in the first place.

Here's another scenario, if the man suspected her of wanting to get pregnant, then why didn't he take precautions to prevent it?

reply to post by InTheLight


What can't he prove in court?

Ok, I took this argument on for a class assignment last Spring in my US Congress Honors class. We had to write legislation and get at least 3 of them to pass, and this was one of mine that got passed.

In my legislation, and I suppose would be the case in real life, if Men were to obtain this new Right, they would sign a document that states they have been identified as the father to a baby from the woman, and they are officially opting out.

And just as women do not need the man's permission to opt out, these men would not require the woman's permission for them to opt out.