Originally posted by Hefficide
Funny. I thought the hundreds of posts in this thread citing abortion as a factor made abortion an issue here. My original statements did not mention
abortion. In fact it was brought up by people on the other side of the argument from me. Read this thread and count the occurrences of the world
"abortion", often in all caps, and then figure out the score on this one regarding which side of the debate seems fixated upon abortion.
You are missing the point. Yes, there are members who are against Abortion and are perhaps channelling their anti-abortion views through this topic.
This does not however take away from the validity of the argument that women have disproportionately favourable rights in these areas.
If a woman wants to give birth to the child and the man does not, woman have the legal power and social right to have the baby regardless. If a
woman does not want a child and the man does, then the woman still has the legal power and social right to abort the child regardless.
Get why the issue of ABORTION is often cited?
When a supposition does not make sense without the underlying issue, then one can only assume that the subtext IS the actual agenda.
Fair enough. But perhaps you are assuming the supposition does not make sense before you have read the arguments put forth by those with an opinion
that differs to your own?
And as for asking for women to be held as responsible equally - fine. Show me a single documented case of a woman receiving child support for
an aborted fetus or a child she gave up for adoption and then we'll talk. And as for pregnancy and labor being referred to as a "TEMPORARY'
uncomfortable experience", very easy to downgrade and marginalize when one knows they won't ever actually have to walk in those shoes.
Apples and Oranges. You know that. But I am sure other members probably could find such information if they believed your comparison had a basis in
I am not downgrading or marginalising the experience of pregnancy. I am placing it into CONTEXT of the overall lifetime of a potential life brought
into existence. Something which is often ignored by Feminists and echo-Feminists in their quest to demonise men and treat women like over-sized
If science ever develops a way for your sexual partners have the option and ability implant the fetus into YOUR body, then it's "equal". And as
many others have done, you speak of this issue solely in a singular gender manner, placing ALL of the blame, responsibility, and pressure upon the
Apples and Oranges for the first part, again.
No, I expect women to be held to the same standards - especially when it comes to taking RESPONSIBILITY - for the situations they find themselves in.
If a woman wants to give birth to a child she cannot afford to raise on her own, then she should be held accountable for giving birth to that baby.
But asking women to take responsibility in areas they are expected to make sacrifices has never been very popular among those who promote themselves
as Women's Rights advocates.
You do realize that child support came into being because men were NOT doing the right thing by their families. Right? If there had not been a
need for these laws, they would not exist. Oh, wait, nevermind, it was those feminists and their Gynocratic fascism...
I don't have the energy nor desire to address how illogical this paragraph appears. Other members have posted quality information that refutes such
ignorance many times but it keeps getting ignored. So what's the point really?
Over and over I read these same empty arguments and not ONCE have a I seen anyone on the other side of the issue say a single thing about the
welfare of the child. Not once that I can recall. Just a bunch of "My rights" "my money" rhetorical regurgitation.
Sure you have, plenty of times. Have you noticed myself and other members mentioning the 18 YEAR old life that is brought into the world? Have a read
through the thread and you will find the LIFE is referred to lots of times, just not using the phrase "think about the children".
Explain to me how the ability to say "Oh, before you get dressed, just so you know, if you're knocked up I don't have to provide for the kid at
all, so either get an abortion or raise it yourself. MY money is MINE." has anything to do with "Helping women escape oppression and achieve
happiness"? This truly equals fairness and equity to you? Really?
What a pity you keep dodging the issue by trying to discredit myself and others just because we don't agree with the way the current system is set
I can't believe I have to keep repeating this. Men such as myself want both MEN and WOMEN to be given the same rights and RESPONSIBILITIES.
Responsibility as in being held accountable to the decisions one makes and how it will affect the lives of others. Right now women have the best of
both worlds in the sense that they get all the RIGHTS that men get, but they CHOOSE the responsibilities they want to have. When these
responsibilities do not suite them, they play the "women's oppression" card and want out of these responsibilities.
Oh, I remember... The idea is that if she didn't want to risk pregnancy she should have kept her legs closed. Right? Never mind that there
happened to be a guy present, and active, with the same option for avoiding a pregnancy. In this bizarro world we are seeking to create only women
bear those consequences, because we're keeping things equal....
If men are told that the best way to avoid pregnancy is to abstain from sex, then isn't it fair women are given the same advice? Given that men are
biologically and psychologically programmed to desire sex more often and with more intensity than women, isn't this already unreasonable? Include the
fact that the risks for women are greater (having to endure ~9 months of physical labour), this should be more reason for women to be extra careful
about who they do spread their legs for.
Of course the fact that abortion results in no child to support keeps getting ignored. Ignored because there is no way to counter it. So we
just harp on and on and on with this false notion of equality that cannot exist because it is impossible to achieve. I again use word pedantic because
that is the only word in my vocabulary that can describe what is happening in this thread.
Your last paragraph is a good indicator of how out-of-touch you happen to be on this issue. You are ignoring the fundamental issue: the father's
rights in the context of pregnancy and the aftermath.
Abortion is a convenient option when it supports the desires of the Mother. But what
happens when it doesn't match the desires of the mother? It becomes the escape for the man who doesn't want to support raising a child.
Funny how your earlier "concern for the child" evaporates when the father
wants the child and the mother
doesn't. You are not too fussed
about defending a mother's right to bring a child into the world she cannot support, but you waste no time criticising a man for wanting the same. Why
edit on 12/11/2010 by Dark Ghost because: spelling, grammar