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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


And yet you still do not accept the fact where a man ejaculated into a condom and was dug out of the trash, or did not deposit said semen into the vagina.

As for gender feminism, it has everything to do with this topic. No matter how you try to slice it it does. You may not like it because it calls your precious beliefs out. And your attempts of obscuring the issues while getting people to argue with their emotion. Do I want any kid to suffer hell no those are my honest to god feelings on the matter. BUT I do not make my points from that position. I make my points with logic. DO I know that kids will invariably suffer, without a doubt I do, just as I know kids ARE suffering now because both sides are not being responsible. It is completely unfair to hold only one side responsible for that And I will argue that till the day I die not for myself, but for my children, and your children and every other child out there.
The process starts with educating on the FACTS of the issue not on their emotional merits. That is what this thread is supposed to be dealing with FACTS.

But feminism is supposed to be about equality but yet you claim things are equal. Nice try. Perhaps today will be better for you to actual make a point someone believes and thinks is actually valid or not a flip flop, cop out or the like.


edit on 21-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




edit on 21-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Thanks BH I agree we do need to get this ball rolling. And believe it or not there are people trying to. Even these postings are getting that process. That being said we have alot of things to overcome the posters that generalize all women as being part of the problem, the blatant lies, partial truths, and word play of gender feminists like tater. Unfortunately the whole i am victim card that is played time and time again still gets alot of public support, as well as government. The politicos who use women's rights to keep their power base. I can go on and on.

But it also starts with education, and I think there are a group of us on here who are trying to educate people, As well as various groups out in the real world and online. Groups such as fathers and families, mensnewsdaily.com, i feminists.com, erin prizzy, glen sacks, wendy mcelroy.

That being said we will eventually prevail just as the unfairly oppressed women were. Hopefully this time the pendulum does not swing anymore.

Also I know this probably should not need mentioning, but it also will not be possible without people like you BH that are truly dedicated to the principles of equality.




edit on 21-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


I would'nt accept Fox news as reliable.

I looked at the Govt census (although not updated to 2009/2010) and mothers not paying child support to custodial fathers is pretty small compared to fathers not paying child support to custodial mothers.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


How would your wife feel about you alleging you do a majority of the housework? LOL Yep, like I believe that one. Next.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Annee
I wish this male pill was already available.


Yes, the reason I laughed when you first posted about it is that, when contraception went into the chemical arena, men were making all the decisions in medicine and in the pharmaceutical industry and decided that it should be the woman who takes a pill, even with its side effects. They didn't even consider making one for the man, too.
Well, they may have considered it, but the idea was quickly discarded. That's the kind of thing women are upset about. That for so long, men have made the decisions about everything, including birth control... I understand this completely.



Oh I know. And if it were men who got pregnant this would be a whole different conversation.

Men's brains are designed differently. Men are single focus - - while women are more multi-focused. That is according to science.

I've been married for 21 years - - hubby and I don't fight anymore - - but when we have a disagreement he always throws in (jokingly) "but but . . . I'm a guy . . . it's all about ME".



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater



If the man had kept his "decision" IN his hands he would not be responsible for anything.


What NONSENSE! Are you a child? Come on. Are you really like 8 years old? Because your arguments are flat out nonsense. Women, ADULT, women, are fully aware of the risks associated with sex. Condoms break, condoms fail/slip off, and so on. Mature women know this and understand pregnancy with the consent of their actions may produce a pregnancy; but some women only claim innocence when its convenient for them. THATS the argument!!!



Feminism has nothing to do with this topic. Men who do not want to take ownership of where their semen ends up, that does have to do with the topic.


Yes feminism has EVERYTHING to do with this topic, and you're doing a damn good job of proving it. OH so NOW men own their semen? Before you said they didnt own it and thats why abortion is 100% justified because the baby is part of the woman's body and not part of the mans. I think your logic has a SEVERE case of tunnel vision.


When I bake a cake I always expect to eat it, and usually cut the best slice. What does cake have to do men running away from responsibility?


wow, more proof of being naive and childlike...


Women can have risk free sex? How so? They risk the same things as a man (being dumped std etc) except they risk getting pregnant too.


Yeah they have a risk of getting pregnant, unless they are raped, its ALSO at their own risk. You seem to imply women have no choice in any sex at all, as if it was ALL rape. The poster is referring to the fact they have the opportunity to riskless sex (in pregnancy) due to their "legal" option of abortion.


But thank goodness men know the women they have sex with have the right to choose. Thus the mans choice becomes all the more important.


WHAT!? Contradictive to core, hypocritical, and with a dash of complete and total nonsense.




edit on 21-9-2010 by AzoriaCorp because: edit



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Take control, men! Work in your government to get the male pill! It's hard work, but women (speaking generally) aren't going to see your plight and they aren't going to help you get what you need to stop this deadbeat dad situation. So, instead of trying to get women to change their minds and be sympathetic to your issue (which is clearly not going to happen), take control yourself! It's the only way you're going to fix this.

Good Luck!


And that's why I also say - - - Men need to go after the deadbeat dads. Men need to legislate for mandatory paternity DNA.

Because it is the deadbeat dads that are keeping "real" dads from having more respect from the courts.

Yes I know there are bad and deadbeat mothers - - - but lets be real percentage wise.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
reply to post by Aeons
 


I have to say that I agree with you Aeons here.

The only reason I agree is because I remember when I was young,I could have easily been talked into sex condom free by a women I was attracted to,especially if I hadn`t experienced it.I kind of get the feeling we men have a bit of a design fault that in our younger years we are full of desire but without the maturity to handle it,then later on in life the maturity with not so much desire,women on the other hand should not be allowed to take advantage of this design fault if they do then face the consequences,this also sounds and is terrible to me,but over a period of time I can only see things improve on what we see in society today.

If its not something men can control (much more so young men) then I can also then see that this scenario "Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy" to be the lesser of two evils.As this would create women to think seriously hard about their sexual partners be it for a fling or marriage etc.


Are you suggesting that teenage and young women take advantage of teen boys and young men for the purposes of reproduction?



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by Aeons
 


Do you know what the word "Vasectomy" means?


An estimated 526501 vasectomies were performed in the United States in 2002

www.cdc.gov...

Plus, Words Never Die.

Nor do their Definitions.

-Edrick


edit on 21-9-2010 by Edrick because: Addition



Oh. About twice as many women are sterilized, and women have a LIMITED window of fertility so they have even less reason to do so. Just to put your numbers into "willingness" context.

There are about 315,000,000 people in the USA, just under half of which are males. Most of those males are above 19 - Like 95% of them.

So let us be generous. We won't even factor in that 30,000 to 40,000 men in the USA who REVERSE their vasectomies per year, and we can round up.

So over a 10 year person we'll say 600,000x10=6000000. We'll use just this years population figures.

6000000vasectomies over 10 years/157000000males alive this year x 100 (to create a percentage = 3.8% or so.

WOW. Overwhelming.




edit on 2010/9/21 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



Oh, did I mention that most vascetomies are done on men who are in stable long term relationships, and not on single men cavorting around?

Gosh - why IS that exactly?

Seems like if your views were in anyway close to correct, this number of single men would be like 80%. Not 1.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
Yes I know there are bad and deadbeat mothers - - - but lets be real percentage wise.


Yes, let's be real. Women are equally as likely to be 'deadbeat' as men. Not only that, but more custodial fathers work as compared to custodial mothers. On deadbeat moms:



But what about compliance with support obligations? Perhaps this is where so many men have earned the reputation as a “deadbeat”. However, the facts do not prove this to be true. According to the U.S. Census Bureau report, non-custodial fathers pay some or all of their support obligations 77% of the time, and non-custodial mothers make full or partial payment 75% of the time. Based on these statistics, men are equally as likely as women to comply with their child support obligation.

Another interesting statistic has to do with the contribution the custodial parent makes towards the support of the children. Of all fathers who have custody of their children, more than 92% of them work, either full or part-time, while 78% of custodial mothers are employed.


Source

I will never again use the term "deadbeat dad". It's just one way in which men are UNFAIRLY demeaned in this society.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Aeons
 

My knowledge about women might seem limited in your mind, but at least I have the ability to empathise with some of the struggles faced by members of the opposite sex. A quality which seems to be severely lacking in many of those who call themselves Feminists.


edit on 21/9/2010 by Dark Ghost because: spelling



I TOTALLY cop to not being sympathetic to men who want to cause their children a life time of rejection and hardship.

Mea-Culpa.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Aeons
I TOTALLY cop to not being sympathetic to men who want to cause their children a life time of rejection and hardship.


No rational man or woman WANTS to cause their child pain. It sounds like you're assuming that because a person doesn't pay child support that he or she wants to hurt the child. That's ludicrous.


edit on 9/21/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


Wow. Did you not read the other two links? Of course there are more custodial dads not paying support there are a great many more of them byt the numbers. As I said the PERCENTAGE of nonpaying mother is higher than men. So if both population groups were the same as far as straight numbers women are more of deadbeats by men.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 

And you are fully free to believe that. Just as you are fully free to be wrong and not able to argue the facts, but would rather try and shame me.

As for my wife how she feels about it I would imagine she would be the first to say I do. BTW what does that have to do with the issue we are talking about? I know how I see it, just another attempt to derail the talking about this issue.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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There is a certain amount of the attitude that human beings BELONG to men, and therefore they should be allowed to dictate the acquistion or disposition of their interest in this possession or dictate how they own rights the things they leave their sperm in.

Like leaving your sperm in a woman gives you some sort of adult version of "I licked the muffin so now its mine...nyah, nyah, nyah."

The relationship to the child after birth has NOTHING to do with the Mother.

All of you want to continue to pursue this idea by IGNORING that the child is a human being unto himself.

The fact that you are all incapable of seeing that a child is NOT its Mother, and is NOT a possession of hers or yours is the clearest example of your immaturity and your inability to see children and women as PEOPLE.


edit on 2010/9/21 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Aeons
I TOTALLY cop to not being sympathetic to men who want to cause their children a life time of rejection and hardship.


No rational man or woman WANTS to cause their child pain. It sounds like you're assuming that because a person doesn't pay child support that he or she wants to hurt the child. That's ludicrous.


edit on 9/21/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



But that is the consequence. Your want or lack of it doesn't negate that.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Women can be deadbest Moms.

And calling a man who doesn't support his children a deadbeat is demeaning.

And it should be.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly.”
reply to post by joechip
 




If the father does not want the child in his life and does not want to pay child support for the next 18 years all he has to do is sign over his rights and he will be free of any obligations to that child.If he does not want to sign over his rights then he should be held for all the same financial and emotional things for that child as the mother
It takes 2 to make the child and it is the womans right to decide if that child will be born,adopted or kept by herself.She should consider the father of the childs feelings on it but when it comes down to it he should have to pay child support if she decides to keep the child or he can opt out by giving up his rights as the childs father and then he will have nothing to worry about..



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Annee
Yes I know there are bad and deadbeat mothers - - - but lets be real percentage wise.


Yes, let's be real. Women are equally as likely to be 'deadbeat' as men. Not only that, but more custodial fathers work as compared to custodial mothers. On deadbeat moms:

I will never again use the term "deadbeat dad". It's just one way in which men are UNFAIRLY demeaned in this society.


No - I meant really deadbeat dads that completely abandon their children. Who contribute nothing.

And I know deadbeat moms are on the rise. But percentage wise I believe it is still primarily the man who abandons his children.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes to child support - visitations - that's a different story to me. I don't believe you can force anyone to be a parent. But if they pay child support - - I don't consider that deadbeat.

And if you pay - - you should have mandatory visitation - - unless there is a history of violence. Then mandatory supervised visits with a non-related person.

I wish my dad and my kids dad would have showed some interest in their children. They didn't. They did make their child support payments though.

I also think who ever receives the child support - - should be required to itemize and prove it is being used to care for the child.

I'm all for full and equal rights for both parents of a living child. But that's not exactly the thread subject.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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Oh, and guys - you keep talking with this "us" thing. Like when we are pointing out that YOU and men like YOU do these things YOU suck.

You want to generalize this to say that we are discussing all men.

You aren't all men.

"We" isn't just women. Lots of men don't like your immaturity and incapacity to see children as human beings as well.

You don't "own" al the men as well, and you aren't some extension of the male pysche where you get to talk for all men.

You only wish you were that important.



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