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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


its not leaving all reasponsiblity to one person unless the mother(or father) elects to have the baby brough to full term and then delivers it,give the scenario i listed he would have ceeded his rights and she would have been knotified of this(and its interchangeable between male and female)and then decided 1 i will raise this child on my own come hell or high water and give it the best life she/he could ask for

2.she will make the difficult decision to put the baby up for adoption(there for it wouldnt be either of there responsiblitys)

3 she makes the more difficult choice to abort(note this one is not interchangeable with male female a male can not force a female to have his baby if she dosent want it and she cant be forced to kill it if she dosent want to)and thus no one takes resposiblity for the child as it is decessed

either way it gives women the same ammount of choices(1 extra if you count abortion)that the male has and thus equality is restored what would be the problem with this?and yeah there will be exceptions to every rule for this but that would be for the courts or the people to decide on not me or you individualy

does this make it clear that no one is being forced into anything either way and either way the child will not go for want unless the mother or father decided to raise it solo that also dosent compromise the rights of the child as the mother or father would have under this scenario have CHOSEN to raise a child on there own and thus they decided that as parents that that was what was gonna happen to the child




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Getting the laws changed? The guy in the OP tried and lost that already, supreme court level, years ago.


We're discussing it. You know talking about what we would support in a hypothetical or future situation. Laws change all the time.


Originally posted by Annee
What we really need is a Male contraceptive pill.


Totally agree! I wonder why that's not an option now?



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


Originally posted by Annee
What we really need is a Male contraceptive pill.


Totally agree! I wonder why that's not an option now?


LOL
- you were too quick for me - so here it is again.


Male birth control pill soon a reality Implants, patches and creams also on the way

By John Schieszer

SEATTLE, Oct. 1 — — Forty-year-old Scott Hardin says he’s glad that men may soon have a new choice when it comes to birth control. But, he adds, he would not even consider taking a male hormonal contraceptive. Hardin is like many men who are pleased to hear they may have a new option but are wary of taking any type of hormones.

“I would rather rely on a solution that doesn’t involving medicating myself and the problems women have had with hormone therapy doesn’t make me anxious to want to sign on to taking a hormone-type therapy,” says Hardin, who is single and a college administrator.

www.msnbc.msn.com...



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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Here is another interesting take on the Male Contraceptive (should this have its own thread?)

Male Contraceptive Pill Mooted Again, Still a Dreadful Idea

About once every six months there is a breakthrough on the male contraceptive pill. Everyone gets excited for about five minutes, then realizes it's an appalling notion. Here's a reminder why.

* History is littered with incidents that prove Kingsley Amis's theory that male libido is like being "chained to an idiot." Otherwise sensible men will do incredibly stupid things when that idiot decides it wants something. Ask Bill Clinton, or David Letterman or just about anyone with a penis. The same quantity of men would lie about being on the pill as do about about pulling out. The same quantity of women would be somewhat upset about this.
* Even if men changed overnight, and became paragons of honesty and virtue (that women probably wouldn't want, because they'd be too sissy) no-one would believe them when they told the truth. They'd be the gender that cried wolf.
* Even if this fundamental issue was somehow bypassed, through some kind of truth and reconciliation commission, men would forget to take the pill in the same numbers that they forget to buy condoms.
* Talking of which, sexually transmitted infections and diseases would probably spread a bit faster. Don't think that's plausible? Four words: male pill, Jersey Shore.

gawker.com...



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


i for one would even volounteer for reserach testing of such a pill even assuming sideeffects will be bad it would still be worth it

PS BH did the way i put it seem the same as what you were trying to say?



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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if we only do things and let things be legal if no one could abuse them we would do anything as some one some where will screw it up for the rest of there people i think the pill is a good idea sure some could lie about it but they could also be honest is it worth not takeing the chance of reduceing unwanted children just because some one somewhere could abuse it? i think thats the whole point of the article how women have options we do not and men feel they are abused by the system so by you logic it seems that we shouldnt let women have the power they do because they could abuse it and that argument is absurd i dont get why some women are against a male pill it would make things easyer and hell if there on the pill useing a condom and sperimicidal jelly and the guy is on the pill and useing whatnot it would reduce pregnancy that were unwanted to how could this be a bad thing?



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by KilrathiLG
I don't get why some women are against a male pill it would make things easier and hell if there on the pill using a condom and spermicidal jelly and the guy is on the pill and using whatnot it would reduce pregnancy that were unwanted to how could this be a bad thing?


Did I miss something?

Where does it say women are against a male pill.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Teeky
 




Correct me if I'm wrong but people are commenting as if the safe haven laws are only allowed to be used by the mother? If a single father determines that he does not want his child anymore isn't he allowed to drop the baby off at the police station, hospital, door step etc... just like a single mother can? As for adoption the father has choice also. If he wants to step up to the plate and take custody of a child he can.

I'd be happy to correct you as you are most definitely wrong. As I've pointed out before, a man does not possess the singular right to utilize the safe harbor laws or adoption procedures. These are at his disposal only if that is what is decided by the biological mother as well. Reverse the situation. No such agreement is required of the biological father. As it is not a singular right or option, it can not be fairly termed a option at all. In other words if I have the right to do something only if you agree with it, it can hardly be said to be my "right." Hopefully this summation corrects you misconceptions. If not, go back a few pages and you'll find a post where I go into more detail.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by KilrathiLG
 





i would as a male be willing to take and or be a guine pig for the male birthcontrol pill if it ever comes out i think it would be a great idea and something i would definately be able to get behind males commenting in this forum would you be for or against this measure i for one as allready stated am behind it any other takers?


Absolutely I'm for this measure, and I hope the pharmaceutical companies stop dragging their heels on this. I'm glad you would be willing to test this (hopefully not in real-world applications where the results might end in unwanted pregnancy). I myself, have no need of this as I have been celibate by choice for over ten years, and will remain so until death, but I fully support sexually active men having this option.


edit on 20-9-2010 by joechip because: to elaborate



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


i said some women not all and i was mostly refering to your post which ill quote here

(Here is another interesting take on the Male Contraceptive (should this have its own thread?)

Male Contraceptive Pill Mooted Again, Still a Dreadful Idea

About once every six months there is a breakthrough on the male contraceptive pill. Everyone gets excited for about five minutes, then realizes it's an appalling notion. Here's a reminder why.

* History is littered with incidents that prove Kingsley Amis's theory that male libido is like being "chained to an idiot." Otherwise sensible men will do incredibly stupid things when that idiot decides it wants something. Ask Bill Clinton, or David Letterman or just about anyone with a penis. The same quantity of men would lie about being on the pill as do about about pulling out. The same quantity of women would be somewhat upset about this.
* Even if men changed overnight, and became paragons of honesty and virtue (that women probably wouldn't want, because they'd be too sissy) no-one would believe them when they told the truth. They'd be the gender that cried wolf.
* Even if this fundamental issue was somehow bypassed, through some kind of truth and reconciliation commission, men would forget to take the pill in the same numbers that they forget to buy condoms.
* Talking of which, sexually transmitted infections and diseases would probably spread a bit faster. Don't think that's plausible? Four words: male pill, Jersey Shore.)

correct me if im wrong but it seemd like you stated that even if male birthcontrol was an option you wouldnt trust them ie you are against male pill as you think they wont take it same thing goes for chics its a step in the right direction of stopping unwanted pregnacy if bolth have the possilbity of taking a pill to prevent pregnacy whats wrong with it and if i by some fluke misheard what you said feel free to expain the above quote to me and can you explain to me why women would be upset about a male on a pill that mite keep her from having a baby happen on accident is not good thing?

and even if it was quoted from the article as i may have been wrong in thinking those were your words not an atricles it still goes to show that atleast one woman or some have the opinion that males cant be trusted to take a pill well why should we trust you females to take a pill?



edit on 20-9-2010 by KilrathiLG because: think i mis read something tryed to clarify



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by KilrathiLG
 


I made no comments on that article. That IS the article.

And basically what that one sentence is saying - - is not everyone is a responsible pill taker.

Its been discussed on this thread. Do men trust women to take the pill? Even if they say Yes?

Will women trust men who say they took the pill?

I contend - - - that if both genders have a contraceptive pill - - - then both should be responsible to take it - - - and if there is an Oops! Both are responsible. Even if its "pill failure".

Pill and Condemn and Jelly - - - is still recommended - - if one is serious about not getting pregnant.

TO ADD: By the way: that article is written by a man.



edit on 20-9-2010 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by KilrathiLG
 


Thanks but I am not looking for any kind of props. Though it is nice to hear. As for being scum well if I am the type of person that is scum, then I shall wear that badge proudly. I also think it is fair that my current wife get credit too because she has heldped and been there as a mother for them,



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


ya sorry for that my bad i was asumeing wrongfully that the quote was from you and not the article this sint supposed to be men vs women its suposed to be about equality and aside from one person no one seems to think that the idea BH came up with is viable im curious as to why and again sorry i got confused speedreading will do that to ya some times



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Now lets try this with you.

First read this?
I am a 33 year old male. I am also a father to 4 kids. 2 (1 from the ex, and one with my current wife) biological, 1 step child, and 1 who isn't my current wife or mine biologically. I have full custody of the 2 boys from my previous marriage, my oldest (1 biological), and the non bio one. I also am a Marine Corps veteran with two western pacific deployments (leave my family for a 6 month period on a naval ship). i was married to my first wife during my entire time in the Corps. My oldest son was born about 2 years into my 5 1/2 years in. before I left on my second deployment, my ex was pregnant with my chlld. Just before the halfway point of this deployment, my ex decided to get an abortion so she could pursue a relationship with another man. When I got back we tried to reconcile, and she got pregnant again. From what she told me it was my child again so I was there for his birth, and have since been there as dad. Around 6 months of age, I could tell that he wasn't truly mine, but it did not matter because I loved him no matter what. We ended up staying together for about 2 1/2 years after he was born. I finally decided I did not want to stay in the relationship with her because of the signifigant physical, emotional, financial abuse, as well as her meth aabuse problem. It wasn't fair to me, not my kids. So while we were seperated, and in the process of filing the paperwork, the kids would stay with me, wether it was because she was more intererested in getting high or not wanting to be a parent, it didn't matter. Well one day she decided she wanted to keep them after a visit and since there was no paperwork present there was nothing I could do. The next day, I get a call from her asking if she is going to go to jail and nothing else. I drive to her house and the kids were not there, nor was she. The cops were there, and in speaking to them, I found out that the boys have been taken to foster care because they were left alone. Through the preceding social services case that was brought, she told them, that i wasn't my youngest sons father and another man was. So I had to do a dna test.
Not his bio dad. They contacted his bio dad, said wanted nothing to do with him, but does pay his child support on time. Since the ex was found unfit for not completing her treatment plan and the bio dad didnt want to be involoved I got custody of him also. I couldnt be happier. 6The ex was given supervised visitation, to which she went to sporadically, and eventually moved to another city, got married again, and had another child. The visits became less and less, and even more random. Unfortunately, the boys never had any stability because they didnt understand what was going on with their mom saying she was going to come see them and not show, or call and not call. Eventually, I made the decision to stop her visits completly, after she called social services attemtping to stir up trouble, trying to alienate the boys, by saying my wife and I are bad parents. Since then, she has done the same with her daughter from her now finished 2nd marriage. he has custody of their daughter, and no doubt will have to deal with the same issues I ha ve with the boys.
Might I also add, that she owes almost 10k in back child support,and in the 6 years, I have had custody of them, has paid maybe 3 months of child support (mostly when they grab her income tax refund). It has now been almost a year since we have heard from her, and luckily with the love and support my wife and I give, as well as their therapists, and my ex's family, the boys are learning to live with the fact that their mom, will not accept responsibility for her actions,and prolly never will. If no one beleives this or it doesnt suit your logic, and thats fine also, it is a free world after all.


Now am I a worthless sack for supporting this? What if your husband decides to *gasp* disagree with you at a later date?




edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by KilrathiLG
reply to post by Annee
 


ya sorry for that my bad i was asumeing wrongfully that the quote was from you and not the article this sint supposed to be men vs women its suposed to be about equality and aside from one person no one seems to think that the idea BH came up with is viable im curious as to why and again sorry i got confused speedreading will do that to ya some times


Not a problem. I have a 16 year old grandson. I wish this male pill was already available.

And I usually agree with BH. I don't this time. What is equal in black & white on paper - - - is often not in reality.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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the reason i keep bringing her up is (and not pointing fingers) alota people dont even seem to want to consider compermise but she came up with one i have yet to see anyone else or atleast cant rember it through 64 pages of this if any one else has brought up an option to this or not and im kinda bummed no one liked my tiger woods annalogy but thats life but atleast its gotten alot more or a civil discussion recently



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by circuitsports
 

Circuit not all women. Please do not generalize like that. Do not be like those that choose to construct their arguments that way.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by KilrathiLG
 


Would you please post telling me where to find this compromise? A lot of thread here and hard to read it all or remember specifics. I doubt I would disagree with a compromise BH came up with as I have come to expect a respect on her part for both sexes as well as the principles of equality. I will be sure and get back with you with my take on the specifics, and most probably my endorsement of the compromise.
On the Tiger Woods observations, I agree wholeheartedly that his companions are his own business, and should not be in any way linked to his parental rights, and that the sum he's being charged makes a lot more sense if simply called alimony rather than "child support."



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by joechip
 


yeah the tiger case is an prime example of how women can ditcate things in a divorce granted cheating didnt help his situation but to let her control who his and her children are around is insane plus she got the house and an undisclosed amount of cash and a book deal(ok not as relevant or evil but it adds cash) and im not sure so this needs further research but i think hes prohibited from talking about it or making a similar deal him self but i may be wrong and would welcome anyone correcting me here to learn and i U2Ued you the "compermise" i think its fair some dont seem to think so alot are silent but its there for ya to read it



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by KilrathiLG
The reason I keep bringing her up is (and not pointing fingers) a lot of people don't even seem to want to consider compromise but she came up with one I have yet to see anyone else or at least can't remember it through 64 pages of this if any one else has brought up an option to this or not and I'm kinda bummed no one liked my Tiger Woods analogy but that's life but at least its gotten a lot more or a civil discussion recently


I am a Tiger Woods fan. He was a child protege - - just like Michael Jackson. I am a firm believer that everyone must go through and learn each stage in life - - - if they don't at the appropriate age - - - they will make it up later in life - - and not necessarily in a good/positive way.

Some of Tiger's mindset is a result of the childhood stages he missed - - - and some from the Super Athlete environment. It is way past time we stop putting these "young rich super studs" on pedestals as role models. I have no problem with Tiger.

There are definitely good men/fathers. But in my 64 years experience - - - the "stand-up" dudes are few and far between.

I had to divorce my first husband because he was jealous of his own biological children. He treated me like a Queen - - - but it took me a while to understand - - - the "need" was his. He was treating me like a Queen - - - out of his own need of attention/stroking reciprocation. When a 4 year old says "How come Daddy hates me" - - its kind of like being stabbed in the heart with a knife. When you have a 7 year old that scales a 6 foot high fence so she can come in the back door - - and doesn't have to cross paths with her father who is sitting in his chair in the living room pouting - - because he is not the sole focus of my attention.

Or my beautiful grandson who's father chose drugs over him. And forget my own father - - who abandoned his disabled wife and 3 children under 7.



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