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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 





so men walking away finanically along with some women, happen all the time weather its legal or not... but it shouldnt be legal for either one to walk away financially..


Okay, so I take it your are opposed to abortion, adoption, and safe harbor laws. If not, the above quotation of your stance are just pretty words, and not what you mean at all.


edit on 19-9-2010 by joechip because: to add

Abortion adoption and safe harbor are NOT walking away from responsibility, financial or other. They are ALL valid legal and responsible methods of taking care of the responsibilitiews that come with the pregnancy.




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 




You have put pages of your personal story on this thread, who are you to accuse someone else of basing their opinion off of personal experience generalizationing?




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


If a woman does not want a pregnancy she probably has thought about it and decided she can always take the morning after pill or abort.

That is thinking about it and that is responsible and that is her exercising the same reprodcuctive rights as a man has.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


hate to tell you but most of "the opposition" as you put it can not construct arguments without emotion, not to mention the attacking of the person instead of the arguments. Try again.

As for in the courts, just as women's rights took a while to come about so to shall this.;



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by Kailassa
You're lecturing a grandmother who has raised three children on her own, with no help from any man, (and two of the kids are handicapped, which is why husband left,) and who has raised her own children to be responsible.
...
Children need fathers, I know from experience.

These statements seem to contradict each other. You've raised 3 responsible children on your own (without their father), yet children need their fathers?

I heard of a girl with one leg who could walk well and even dance, does that mean legs are not important?

Do you really think a boy is going to feel comfortable discussing the more personal parts of growing up with his mother?

Since when has "responsible" been all that we hope for, for our children?
I've already told you one son has problems with being suicidal. I guess that doesn't matter provided he's reponsible. At least he'll try to avoid inconveniencing anyone by his act if he does kill himself.

Perhaps some of the guys in this thread could explain the way in which they are important to their children better than I can explain why their absence is a genuine loss for children.


The truth is that children of single parents do very well. As you know. Why do you insist that children need their father? Maybe that's a basic assumption you're making that isn't really based in fact, but opinion?

It's based on experience in that area, something you don't have.

It's also based on years of research into the many implications of single-parent families.

For example:

Single-parent children more at risk: study

Children growing up in single-parent households are twice as likely to suffer a mental illness, commit suicide or develop an alcohol-related disease than children who live with both parents, a study has found.

The risk of drug abuse was found to be three times higher in girls and four times in boys from single-parent homes.

The Swedish study, published today in The Lancet medical journal, compared death statistics and hospital admissions during the 1990s for almost a million children.

Lead author Gunilla Ringback Weitoft, from Sweden's National Board for Health and Welfare, said the health of children from single-parent homes suffered because they were usually poorer.



information - statistics supporting the shared parenting

GREAT PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS single parent children 3 to 4 times more likely to have emotional or behavioral problems ( Zill and Schoenborn, National Center for Health Statistics, 1990) 84% of teens hospitalized for psychiatric care come from single parent homes (1989 study, cited by Hewlett, When the Bough Breaks)

HIGHER SUICIDE RATE teens who attempt suicide similar to non-suicidal teens in age, income, race or religion, are more likely to have little or minimal contact with their father (Study of 752 families by New York Psychiatric Institute, cited by Hewlett) 75% of teens who commit suicide are from single parent homes (Elshtain, The Christian Century, 1993)

MORE ALCOHOL AND DRUG ABUSE 18% of children with strict and involved fathers used drugs 35% of children without fathers used drugs (1988 UCLA study, cited by Hewlett) Children in father-absent homes are 4.3 times more likely to smoke as children in father-present (Stanton, Oci, and Silva, 1994 survey of 1037 15-year-olds)

PERSISTENT FEELINGS OF BETRAYAL, REJECTION, RAGE, GUILT, PAIN lasting for years with a renewed intensity at adolescence Two-thirds [of father-absent children] yearned for the absent parent, one-half of those with an intensity we found profoundly moving. (Wallerstein and Kelly, 1980, Surviving the Breakup)



Sometimes children of single parents do better than children of married parents.

Well of course.
Some women are stronger than some men, too. What does that prove?


For example, a study of hundreds of 10- to 14-year olds and their parents showed that in their day-to-day lives, single parents were friendlier to their children than were married parents.

Well isn't that sweet. The fact that single parents like me are friendlier to their children completely makes up for all that these children miss out on.


The children of single parents also spent more time with people in their extended families than did the children of married parents.

LOL - Of course they do. Single parents are more likely to need help with baby-sitting. Single parents are more likely to need someone to dump a kid with when they can't cope any longer.


But if two-parent households have twice of everything that adults have to offer children, then why don't the children in those households do far better than the children in single-parent households?

Straw man, no-one said "two-parent households have twice of everything that adults have to offer children"

Unsupported contention ...
Come on, BH, you know better than this. Your claim is meaningless without proof to back it up. Prove that the average income rate, suicide rates, life expectancies, education levels, addiction rates and crime rates are not better for children in two-parent families.


And why would they ever do the same or even worse?

It's called individual differences ...


The first is to let go of the fantasy that all children living in nuclear families have two totally engaged parents who lavish their love and attention on all their children, and on each other, in a home free of anger, conflict, and recriminations. The second is to grab onto a different sort of possibility - that many children living with single mothers have other important adults in their lives, too. I don't mean just kids who have Grandma living with them. I also mean all of the kids who have grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, teachers, family friends, and others who care about them and make sure they know it."

Well, who'd a thunk it? Nuclear familes are not always nice, and single parents can manage to do pretty well.

And people with two legs can be clumsy, and people with an artificial leg can learn to dance ...



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


And how am I basing it off of emotion? Please explain.

If I was arguing from my feelings I would be actively trying to enforce my ex to be in the kids lives, or trying to collect support. Much less my son;s biological father. Once again try again.

And where have I generalized? With what I went through and my kids went thorough I could easily say all women are bad, do I nope. Because unlike some people who are still bitter, and do not realize how that can transfer to their kids, I have decided to put what energy from being mad into making sure my kids grow up healthy, knowing they are loved and supported.

Care to try again?


edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Bicent76
 


What very very bad things? Like a kid does not get fed that night or goes with out due to deadbeatism?



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


Ever heard of a vasectomy?

Really, ever heard of being responsible for where your body fluid is placed?

If a man does not want kids, many choices exist besides abstinence.

His choices have nothing to do with her choices.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Wow you definetly are into it deep they are not walking away. Yea they may be legal but it is still walking away. No matter how you choose to cut it it is walking away, throwing in the towel. etc etc.

And while we are at it lets talking about safe haven laws for a second. Is that not exactly the same thing you condemn men for wanting the ability . How did you put it scum bags who would deny their own blood children. Wow how hypocritical of you. What ever respect I had for you and your postions I think just evaportaed.

But I guess when your stuck on the man bad woman good mentality you need to go to insane leaps of logic and hypocracy to justify it.


edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by joechip
 


When parenthood ends, both responsible parties are relieved of their legal burden to provide paretship or financial support.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

Parenthood can end at abortion, at unfortunate death before 18 or legal adult status is assumed, or when the child turns 18.

The financial burden of parenthood exists the entire duration of parenthood, whether parenthood lasts one day or 18 years.

Adoption abortion and safe haven all fufill the parental responsibilities of the female, and are in no way walking away from, rather they are fufilling those responsibilities.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Why should females stop having sex?


What we do with our bodies has no bearing on male reproductive rights.




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

And I say the same thing with males. I simply want nothing more than equal or as close to equal as biology would allow. But I guess thats because I don't subscribe to a man bad women good philosophy nor a man good woman bad one, because I was hurt and angry.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


The Air Farce was a generalization.

This following post is the post I had in mind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Actually it does. As is currently the situation, once a man's sperm has entered the body of the woman, you are claiming he has lost all his reproductive rights. In effect you are saying men should only be having sex (with women) if they can support a child. So, unless women are having sex with other woman, they too should only be having sex (with men) if they can support a child. Does you see where this is going?


edit on 20/9/2010 by Dark Ghost because: fixed typos



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


I do think men who want to walk away from their responsibilties are scum.

So are women who walk away from their responsibility.

How is a woman walking away just like a man walks away?

To walk away from a responsibility is to assume the responsibility (ie, become pregnant, impregnation) and then walk away. For the man this is failing to support a legal entity known as a baby when it is born.

For women this is failing to support a legal entity known as a baby when it is born.

By utilizing safe haven, she is fufilling th financial and legal responsibility that comes with parenthood. The child is being surrendered to an entity that has to by law assume responsibility for the child.

If a man walks away, he not replacing his part of the responsibility.

In every scenerio, the female has fufilled responsibility.

If the female keep a baby has custody and neglects, that becomes criminal that is not male reproductive rights anymore.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Wow you definetly are into it deep they are not walking away. Yea they may be legal but it is still walking away. No matter how you choose to cut it it is walking away, throwing in the towel. etc etc.

And while we are at it lets talking about safe haven laws for a second. Is that not exactly the same thing you condemn men for wanting the ability . How did you put it scum bags who would deny their own blood children. Wow how hypocritical of you. What ever respect I had for you and your postions I think just evaportaed.

But I guess when your stuck on the man bad woman good mentality you need to go to insane leaps of logic and hypocracy to justify it.


edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)
More generalizations , and misrepresentations. I would like to see where I have espoused a good female bad male analogy.





edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Is the air force's mission to operate on the front lines? As for calling it the air farce if that is what you are referring to that is a thing that all the services do. Like Arent Ready to be Marines Yet, or Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential. I guess you would of had to serve any any of the armed forces to get it. As I said there thats just my marine priide showing.

As for the post that you put up I am not seeing any generalizations nor arguing from feelings. So please try to be more specific



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

And I say the same thing with males. I simply want nothing more than equal or as close to equal as biology would allow. But I guess thats because I don't subscribe to a man bad women good philosophy nor a man good woman bad one, because I was hurt and angry.


What does your hurt and anger have to do with anything?

Quoted to showcase the gross generalizations you asked me to provide examples of.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Actually she is utilizing a law that was put in place to give her the ability to walk away from those responsibility.

Nice try again. Try harder. I'm sure something will eventually stick that won't sound like hogwash or hypocracy. That or you will see how ridiculous you are making yourself look and stop.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

How is this a generalization, it is a comment on you. Are you the totality of womanhood? No you are not. Now if I said all women had the women good man bad philosophy that would be a generalization.On your thought process which is painfully obvious. Once again try again.

Now the hurt part was put in because more than likely YOU have that philosphy because you were hurt and found feminism or found it before then, Either way the entire statement besides the one about males was about YOU,


edit on 20-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



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