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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


I am not looking to be told I am nice for doing that but thank you, believe me though when I say it is nice to hear.

My wife breast fed at first. I saved all of my vacation days to take off with her for two weeks right after the birth. She had C-section so it hurt her to move. At the appointed feeding times early on we both got up even though I could only sit there with her I was there. Later we went to bottle and I did a lot of night work with him, but I am a bit of an insomniac any way.

Those you speak of that act the way they do are not real men or even in the male gender. A real man knows how to stand up to a world that confronts them. A real man can help nurture any child that could be placed in their care. I know this because before my wife almost everyone I dated had kids. I treated each of them very well. I even would take care of one woman’s daughter when no one else would while she was messing around on me. I do not hate her nor am I even upset with her, if not for that point in my life I would not be who I am now, each choice added to a different level of who I am now. I do though feel sorry for her little girl, I know she must have had a life filled with insecurity as her mother brought home a different man very often.

I also know of another woman who is now dead (killed by an estranged husband). She had two girls from a previous marriage and pregnant with another guys son when I got with her. She had a few years prior to this been kidnapped and seen her boyfriend at the time murdered by an ex. All of that took place in front of her kids and his. She had a tendency to go after the wrong guys more often than the right guys. That tendency led to her ultimate demise in the same way it all could have happened to begin with, some would call that fate. This took place in front of her kids again.

What I am getting at here is that just these two as an example of women that make poor choices and have little responsibility. Of the two, the latter had a bit more and worked harder at changing her life. In the end though it did not work out for her, it was too little too late. This was also at a time when all of us were young (mid/early 20’s), but that does not give us an excuse.

I spent a lot of time doing many of the wrong things, I know I was in the wrong but I was hoping it would lead to the right path. I eventually realized that you have to follow the right path and not try to make it happen. Sex is a powerful thing and should never be taken lightly by either party. When it is taken lightly without thought of responsibility by either side we end up having to make the decisions we are talking about here in this thread. I never had anyone sit down and explain this sort of thing to me as a child or ever for that matter. I plan to have a real in depth discussion about it when my son gets older. If I could change things I would not because it made me who I am. If I can help him become that person without having to go through it I will.

No one is above the responsibilities of sex unless you chose not to have it. If you are you better be willing to face whatever life brings your way without complaint. If you complain about it, you can only blame yourself in the end because you made the choice to go that far.

Raist




posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


With the current state of things. Sorry if I was not clear.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by Hedera Helix
 


That doesn't even make sense. "where a man chooses to put it" falls in no way under the umbrella of male reproductive choice, neither in law, nor logic.
You are equating (I think, like I said I can't exactly make sense of your poorly worded reply) sex with reproductive choice and the two are not in any way synonymous. Here's a simple exercise to illustrate my point; simply substitute one for the other in a sentence.

"My lovely wife was feeling frisky the other day, and met me at the door in a negligee, clearly in the mood for reproductive choice. We had reproductive choice all night. Out of all the women I've been with she is the best at reproductive choice. And has quite an appetite for reproductive choice!
OR
"Melinda was confused and upset, but she'd made the decision to exercise sex because she knew she wasn't ready to have a child. Walking through the doors of the abortion clinic, she was glad she had the sex that enabled her to make this decision for herself. For her, sex wasn't a right she took lightly, but sex was a right she was glad she had at this moment.


edit on 19-9-2010 by joechip because: add the word "a"




That doesn't make sense? No surprise here. Have you bothered to read your response? You aren't even on the same page. Chapter. Book even.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
You're lecturing a grandmother who has raised three children on her own, with no help from any man, (and two of the kids are handicapped, which is why husband left,) and who has raised her own children to be responsible.

I'm not after freedom to sleep around, or any man's money. I'm after protection of childrens' rights.

Children need fathers, I know from experience. And "male abortion" will not stop these men's babies being born if the mothers can't handle aborting and can't handle giving away the baby they've carried 9 months.

- Unless you do it chinese style, drag the crying mother to the abortionist and forcibly remove the foetus from her womb.


And please, do some adding up. I don't know how to explain to you that it's not possible for more women to be having sex with men than there are men having sex with women.




edit on 19/9/10 by Kailassa because: spelling



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:27 PM
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I absolutely refuse to hear the arguments of the pro-lifers unless said pro-lifer has adopted unwanted babies (yes, multiples) to the absolute breaking point financially. If you do not fall into this category, you have nothing to say on the matter. I don't give a crap about your political or religious convictions. Unless you systematically adopt unwanted pregnancies, you are just a spout of hot air.

Here's some points to ponder:
* Until relatively recently, and just before they changed their name, the District Attorneys Office of Child Support for California's logo was a woman leaning on the outline of the state of California. Biased? Just a bit.
* The 'for-profit' computer program used by this agency (or its successor) is biased towards receipt of payments from non-custodial fathers. As are Judges. Mothers in California are not required to prove income. Fathers are. Keeping a woman in the 'lifestyle to which she'd love to become accustomed' is something the strive towards.
* Leaving out rape/incest (for there lies another topic), consensual sex includes a minimum of two people. If the result of this sex is a pregnancy, in the case of an accidental pregnancy the mother is as much to blame as the father.
* Believe it or not, women do occasionally tell untruths. "I can't get pregnant" is something I've actually heard from a woman.
* Men have absolutely no say in whether the woman keeps or aborts the baby. Once a child is born, in the case of unmarried parents, the father is AUTOMATICALLY flagged for child support. There is absolutely no recourse.
* Women may abort, or put a child up for adoption. Men have no such option. Once the child is born, they are financially responsible, and the mother is not.
* The child support agencies determine how much is paid (via a for-profit computer program), when it is paid, and how it is paid - i.e by garnishment from the employer. However, if a mistake is made by the agency (oh, and there will be many), the 'father' is held completely responsible. This includes suspension of driving license, seizure and suspension of bank accounts, tax return interception, and other methods. If the mistake was made by the agency, the 'father' has to (a) prove it, (b) put all the suspensions etc. right in their own time. No responsibility is taken by the agency. Your tax dollar at work.
* See above. Occasionally, women don't tell the whole truth, and sometimes want MORE money from 'father." No research is done by the child support agencies on what they are being told by the mother. This leads to further persecution of 'father.'
* Rinse. Repeat.

It's not always the man. Sometimes it's the woman. However, society, the government, the media, the political activists, and (worst of all) the religions, all point the finger at the guy. He was just as at fault as the woman, but he's never going to get the same rights.

Men should have the same rights. If the pregnancy is unwanted, then there should be a legal and easily available waiver available. Men have no say in the matter right now whether the pregnancy goes to term or not. If there were a legal form that the woman and man could sign to say, "I, the pregnant mother, release XXXX from all future financial and social responsibility" it would be equal . Until then, it's biased.

Nothing I have written above is untrue, or unexperienced.

Some, repeat SOME, women are not the 'victim' in these matters. The legal system (I'd love to say "Justice system", but there's little justice....it's all just LAW and how it's interpreted) automatically treats the non-custodial parent as the offender. Equal rights? Don't make me laugh.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 


I agree with you on ever stance accept not wanting to hear the sides of pro-lifers if they have not adopted.

I am pro-life due to a personal experience. I have seen what my first born looked like. He was still born at 22 weeks. He was nothing less than a little baby boy. Aside from that I have a second born son, that is all that my wife and I can afford financially therefore we have not brought another child into the equation.

However, to just brush off anyone pro-lifer because they do not adopt is still biased. There can be other reasons aside from religious or political beliefs. As for the legality of abortion, while I am against it I do not see making it illegal would help the matter. If a woman wants one she will get one. There is always a way to end the life of an unborn child.

Raist



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



Nearly everything you said in that long post is bigoted, sexist and BS.


You are Thrice Wrong, and you are only on the first sentence... this is going to be a long day.


Men don't work harder than women


This statement is ignorant of reality.


I don't Care what you feel, and neither do Statistics.


Men Work Harder.


We Expend more Work Energy, We burn more calories when we ARE at work, we can move heavier objects, we have better spacial awareness, we have superior mathematical ability.


Men Work Harder Than Women.


This is A FACT of reality... much in the same way that The Earth Orbits the Sun, instead of the sun orbiting the Earth, or being carried across the sky in a Random God's Canoe.

FACT.

It Means Observable, Testable, Evident in what we Perceive, when we ALL observe Reality.


and they arent more intelligent.



Intelligence Variance among men is more spread out along the IQ spectrum than women (whose IQ's are grouped closer to average.)

Men are the More Intellectually Capable Gender.


Women do better in tests and college.


Are you talking about Majoring in "Women's Studies" or "The Humanities"?


Or perhapse... Brain Surgery, or Rocket Science?


Or is an *A* in home Ecc.... worth an *A* in "Build the World 101"



They do on average get more spacial rewiring back in, and women get more holistic overall wiring joining both hemispheres.


You mean that women's emotions Invade their Cognitive Centers, and begin to take over?

Yes.... I agree.


Hence at 150 IQ there are more men, though at 120-130 lots of women.


Though.... still more men.



That spatial is a job description not a massive IQ perk


Build a Central Proccessing Unit.

From Scratch.


(By the way, that means mapping out the circuit paths of some 154-233 Million transistors. Which is a .... "Spacial Awareness Challenge")

Are you posting on this forum with a Computer? Or with your Hopes and Dreams?


This holographic/simulated reality/school/universe is all a test. And its love and equality that progresses the soul.


I'll agree with the use of the word "Love" in that sentence... but not "Equality", because the word is meaningless in that context.


The ultimate test is about Equivilance? you mean that Men=Women?


Really? I have never seen a MAN give birth, nor a WOMAN inseminate.


I don't see how you think that they are the SAME THING (which is what Equal Means)


Now, for the few women that have over 150 IQ's they seem to have both the spatial and the holistic whole brain experience because they seem to perform over the abilities of the men at that level according to tests.


What Tests?


So don't peddle that nonsense in the least.


Source, or you are the one peddling nonsense.


When i was nursing round the clock and putting in 20 hour days with my babies, cat napping for a few moments at best, and running hte household, and my second oldst woke ever 2 hours for a feeding till he was nearly 2, I didn't notice any man doing the same.


That Entire Sentence contains no relevant information regarding to your point at all.

Subjective, Emotional Experiences do not Constitute *PROOF* in *ANY* meaning of the word.

You might as well have started quoting Psalms.


What I saw is them coming home and having beers with friends, or resting up and pursing their own interests.


Of course, you never saw them DO THE WORK TO EARN THE MONEY TO BUY THE BEERS... did you?


I don't even want to tell you what not getting it, and not walking in others moccasins is like when the curtain raises.


You wouldn't be able to tell me anyways... you have never actually put yourself in the shoes of a MAN.


For its Ground Hog DAy the movie until they pass the test, for others its walking in the others shoes.


Well, when you finally, as a *GENDER* get around to EMPATHIZING with *MEN*.... let me know.


For it would be a First.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



In addition the rewiring into the spatial center that men get, doesnt make all of them super bright, as I said women often outperform them in college, it just creates some more bright, at the highest levels in that spatial way, and it doesnt make them wiser. That whole brain is also intelligence and very wise intelligence.


Really?

Prove that the Universe is a Hologram then.


Go ahead.


I'll wait.



I mean, you talk a pretty interesting Game... with "Holographic This" and "Universal test That".......



Seriously... You should just start quoting Psalms.




Here, allow me, if you will... to Condense your ENTIRE post, into a more accurate representation of your Perspective on reality.



GOD IS A WOMAN




So.... is it.... Lilith?

Or..... That princess from the Never ending Story?



Oh.... Serial Experiments Lain..... do you walk in the Wired?




You think that men and women are the same thing.


I know that you think this, because you say that "Men and Women are Equal"


But then I look at the Dictionary, and go to "E" for "Equal" and it says *THIS*


1. be identical or equivalent to
2. be equal to in quality or ability
3. having the same quantity, value, or measure as another



Oh, *VALUE* you reply, in protest!


Yes... Value to WHOM?


Values are not intrinsic properties of the universe.


Mountains and Sand Value nothing.


The River... Values Nothing.


The Sky.... Values Nothing.


So, Value to Whom?


To say that men and women have the Same Value... is Wrong.


They have Different Values.

Their Values are Not Equal.


Just as Some people might Prefer a Mushroom Pizza to a Pepperoni Pizza.


Values are Our Needs and Desires.




*MEASURE* you scream!


Well.... you know that Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses....


Calling them "Equal", Demeans the strengths and weaknesses of men and women.



It places them in opposition to one another.


As it was Designed to Do.


-Edrick



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 





reply to post by galadofwarthethird You're lecturing a grandmother who has raised three children on her own, with no help from any man, (and two of the kids are handicapped, which is why husband left,) and who has raised her own children to be responsible.


Ok what is your point my own grandmother raised some kids to, so did my grandfather. I ain't making fun of you its impressive really truly, but people have been doing it for centuries. And it sucks that your husband didn't like your kids.



I'm not after freedom to sleep around, or any man's money. I'm after protection of children's rights.


OK, affirmative.



Children need fathers, I know from experience. And "male abortion" will not stop these men's babies being born if the mothers can't handle aborting and can't handle giving away the baby they've carried 9 months.


Thats not what the feminists say...you are not a very good feminist..... There is no male abortion issue...there is a female abortion issue...and a male and female relations issue.



- Unless you do it chinese style, drag the crying mother to the abortionist and forcibly remove the foetus from her womb.



I don't understand this fascination with babies that women have.....And no I don't want to drag anyone around, or force anyone to get any abortion, or anything against there will.



And please, do some adding up. I don't know how to explain to you that it's not possible for more women to be having sex with men than there are men having sex with women.


Many things are possible, this would be on the bottom of the list of things possible... I know how to explain it to you, so you would understand, but its a waste of time, and does not matter....All in all you said it yourself, your a grandmother, you were raised in a different time and world....Things change every day.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by sindeestarr
 



I would like to pose a question.


I would like to answer your Question.



Women are Demanding "Rights", that actually require a RATHER LARGE BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY.

Except they don't want the Burden.


If you Girls want to Be *EQUAL* to men.... then Give up all of your Feminine Privileges.

It's really that Simple.


If you Would Rather Not Suffer the Slings And Arrows of Outrageous Fortune.... If you would rather someone Else act as a Protector From the World, for you....


Then you have chosen... Not to Be.



Your "Rights" as you call them... Exist, because Your nation has a Very Large, and Sophisticated Military that ACTIVELY STOP anyone from attempting to Take your Rights From You.


You can Vote in Government.... Because This Same Military prevents Totalitarian Regimes from Seizing Power... and Taking your Rights From You.


After All.... That is the Very PURPOSE of Government.


To Protect The Rights Of the Citizens of the Nation.



And When I say "Protect".... I mean *DESTROY* threats to YOUR RIGHTS.


People that want you to be a SLAVE, and despite your "Feminine Divinity" they will use FORCE to MAKE you a Slave.


Your Rights... as you call them... Imply the Responsibility of Defending them from those who would take them Away.

-Edrick


edit on 19-9-2010 by Edrick because: condensation



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 



Uh Oh.


You have not yet Experienced... "Uh Oh."


Someone called the whole lot of people on this thread on their biggest lie.


You are right about that....


These guys act like they are something new.


are you feeling well?


There is nothing new under the Sun.


The Large Hadron Collider Has Always existed as a Natural Feature along the French Swiss Border.


I can't believe that you even dug that tired cliche out of the wastebasket.....

Oldmeme is Old..... Seriously.


You are the exact same guys that have been walking away since the beginning of time.



We are the sum totality of Fathers who have Abandoned Children throughout recorded History... Treat us as such....


Yes master... We Obey....




Only now you want people to make you into a HERO for doing it.


Why do you get money if there is a child, but we have to pay money if there is a child?

Why do you get to make the choice to keep a child that we would be legally required to pay for (And you wouldn't), and our only choice.... was the same choice that you made also... to have sex?

Why is that?



Suck it up - you suck.


Hmmm.... interesting Tactic.... do you think it's going to work?


You've always sucked.


Just to emphasize the point, eh?



You guys have caused more misery on a more personal basis than every War combined throughout all of humanity.


We mere few men... posting in this forum... in Defense of Men, against the Baseless Lies of Feminism, are *PERSONALLY* responsible for all misery in human history...


Connect the emotions of Misery, compassion, and Vile hatred of an enemy with a reference to "These Guys"... meaning those who oppose the Unchecked Rampage of the "Feminist Organization" that is attempting... AS WE SPEAK, to manipulate others into compliance...

Much as a Tyrant Would.


like a kid that has found her dad's Gun.... Indeed.


Now instead of just leaving your families, your children, and women to clean up your myriad of human messes, now you want a legal stick to force people to live with your messes.


You kept the baby... you could have killed it or given it up for adoption.

You had the option, You chose.


If you didn't want to bear the burden of having a child, then you should not be having unprotected sex, dear.

You just Want MEN to take Full financial Responsibility for the Consequences of YOUR decisions.


This doesn't have anything to do with abortion. Only men who lie through both sides of their mouth and their ass pretend it does.


This doesn't have anything to do with abortion. Only women who lie through both sides of their mouth and their ass pretend it does.

Wow.... that was an easy fix.

-Edrick


edit on 19-9-2010 by Edrick because: addition



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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The child support system is criminal itself. I have witnessed such evidence of their abuses. I am for father's and mother's rights both. I have seen the court system abuse non custodial mothers as well as fathers.


edit on 20-9-2010 by Thunder heart woman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:31 AM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 


TRUTH, TRUTH, TRUTH...


CSE, has more fangs then the IRS, in addition to the non custodial parents having to pay child support, 9 times outta 10 a male, he is somehow suppose to raise a child, who is basically be taught some how or another that HE, the Father, is some how no good.

In addition if for any reason, the non custodial parent cannot pay the child support, very, very, bad things happen. Child support has also been motives for divorces and other wacky crazy idea's, like thinking the grass is greener on the other side ideology's..
unplanned pregnancy is going to be kinda hard to prove thou I guess, but I have to agree that the C.S.E is one of the biggest dichotomy's in present time..



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Cowardly scum support this bill.

Think about this, this is supported by men who could not care any less about a flesh and blood of theirs walking the streets.

What kind of sickos are those people??


Forgot to add and the lengths some men will go to avoid child support. Those scum support this too.


edit on 16-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: forgot another type of scum who supports this




What about women who do not want their flesh and blood walking the streets and they choose abortion? Why is the man a scum if he does not want to be a father to the child? I'm not saying I agree with fathers who want to get out of their responsibilites, but it is a two way road. A woman can choose abortion, the man cannot choose to not be a father, aside from practicing complete abstinence. Either way, there are people walking the earth who have zero maternal feelings and I do not think this makes all of them scum.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by Bicent76
 


Seems those fangs are only aimed at the men though. Aint it something.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


yep its something, the whole system, needs a overhaul, the support system needs to be 50/50 period, their is way to much power enforced for the female, or mother so to speak, and yes I am sure their are true cases out there where such dead beats exist, but for the most part it is the Father, who is not the dead beat that gets the shaft in this system, since this system, the judicial system, lacks the empathy or understanding of the singular sense of individual, since the CSE, exists souly to prevent the burden of society into taking care of the child or mother, but the irony is, more then likely society is somehow still doing it. Society just aka the CSE, just takes it out on the man, because it is somehow his fault in 2010, where equal rights are at all time high, but anyhow, I can just imagine how many female friends I will acquire if I go any further. I find it astonishing that when the mother, is held in contempt over visitation rights by denying visitation, or performs parental alienation, she does not go to jail, but if a man, loses his job, and is forced into contempt, by not being able to pay his child support, he is punished with losing his license, which makes it even harder to find a job, ends up feeling like a criminal, and then to make it worse is sent to jail for not being able to pay which ends up hurting the child, and the Father. So yes This system, especially in such a economic climate needs a overhaul, and maybe a victory like this will bring some attention to such a broken system..


edit on 20-9-2010 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Bicent76
 


Or as in my case with the ex wife not paying child support no action is taken. Gotta love it lol. As for the female friends. Are You sure you would want those kinds of friends lol? There do happen to be a few females on this thread that are reasonable and even though they may not agree they are at least willing to listen.



posted on Sep, 20 2010 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by rusethorcain
 


What does it matter if I post only in certain forums. Perhaps this is what interests me. Perhaps not. Perhaps I care about equality. You will never know. Point is I can take part in as much or as ATS I want to and for the time being I am here.

Why is it you never really have anything to contribute unless it is to ridicule someone who doesn't share your views. I wonder. But then again I also do not care.

let me know if you have anything to actually contribute to the conversation. IIf not then I will take appropriate action for all of your silly posts that do nothing to address the issue and only serve to try and shame someone or beat them down to your way of thinking,

And you know what you are exactly right. I am exactly tthe type of person you think I am. I won't even bother to have you read what I have posted about myself on here 3 times. Instead I will let you continue to make a fpol out of yourself. Have fun and knock yourself out.



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