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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Star, you are wrong. As I said read about me. In fact I will post it again for the third time.

I am a 33 year old male. I am also a father to 4 kids. 2 (1 from the ex, and one with my current wife) biological, 1 step child, and 1 who isn't my current wife or mine biologically. I have full custody of the 2 boys from my previous marriage, my oldest (1 biological), and the non bio one. I also am a Marine Corps veteran with two western pacific deployments (leave my family for a 6 month period on a naval ship). i was married to my first wife during my entire time in the Corps. My oldest son was born about 2 years into my 5 1/2 years in. before I left on my second deployment, my ex was pregnant with my chlld. Just before the halfway point of this deployment, my ex decided to get an abortion so she could pursue a relationship with another man. When I got back we tried to reconcile, and she got pregnant again. From what she told me it was my child again so I was there for his birth, and have since been there as dad. Around 6 months of age, I could tell that he wasn't truly mine, but it did not matter because I loved him no matter what. We ended up staying together for about 2 1/2 years after he was born. I finally decided I did not want to stay in the relationship with her because of the signifigant physical, emotional, financial abuse, as well as her meth aabuse problem. It wasn't fair to me, not my kids. So while we were seperated, and in the process of filing the paperwork, the kids would stay with me, wether it was because she was more intererested in getting high or not wanting to be a parent, it didn't matter. Well one day she decided she wanted to keep them after a visit and since there was no paperwork present there was nothing I could do. The next day, I get a call from her asking if she is going to go to jail and nothing else. I drive to her house and the kids were not there, nor was she. The cops were there, and in speaking to them, I found out that the boys have been taken to foster care because they were left alone. Through the preceding social services case that was brought, she told them, that i wasn't my youngest sons father and another man was. So I had to do a dna test.
Not his bio dad. They contacted his bio dad, said wanted nothing to do with him, but does pay his child support on time. Since the ex was found unfit for not completing her treatment plan and the bio dad didnt want to be involoved I got custody of him also. I couldnt be happier. 6The ex was given supervised visitation, to which she went to sporadically, and eventually moved to another city, got married again, and had another child. The visits became less and less, and even more random. Unfortunately, the boys never had any stability because they didnt understand what was going on with their mom saying she was going to come see them and not show, or call and not call. Eventually, I made the decision to stop her visits completly, after she called social services attemtping to stir up trouble, trying to alienate the boys, by saying my wife and I are bad parents. Since then, she has done the same with her daughter from her now finished 2nd marriage. he has custody of their daughter, and no doubt will have to deal with the same issues I ha ve with the boys.
Might I also add, that she owes almost 10k in back child support,and in the 6 years, I have had custody of them, has paid maybe 3 months of child support (mostly when they grab her income tax refund). It has now been almost a year since we have heard from her, and luckily with the love and support my wife and I give, as well as their therapists, and my ex's family, the boys are learning to live with the fact that their mom, will not accept responsibility for her actions,and prolly never will. If no one beleives this or it doesnt suit your logic, and thats fine also, it is a free world after all.

So now that you read that, If I was arguing from my emotions I would have a differentt stance would I not?




Please dont think Im being rude here, but how does your background prove your stance, that men should have the right to walk away financially should an unwanted pregnancy occur? And besides, your story is the same as every single parents story... but ur lucky enough to have a wife which now equals 2 incomes... My friends baby daddy owes her close to 8k but he sits at home at his mama's smoking weed all day, play video games at the ripe old age of 29 and hasnt given her a cent!! He never did have his liscense so he doesnt have to worry bout them taking that away for not paying and when my friend called and called her case worker, they finally sent a cop out to his mamas house and his mom signed an affidavit stating he didnt live there and didnt know where he was.... so men walking away finanically along with some women, happen all the time weather its legal or not... but it shouldnt be legal for either one to walk away financially.. and maybe that poor woman needs some help maybe if she got the treatment she needed she would be a better mother... MAYBE...




posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 





so men walking away finanically along with some women, happen all the time weather its legal or not... but it shouldnt be legal for either one to walk away financially..


Okay, so I take it your are opposed to abortion, adoption, and safe harbor laws. If not, the above quotation of your stance are just pretty words, and not what you mean at all.


edit on 19-9-2010 by joechip because: to add



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Thats really nice of you raist but todays young men feel that it is soley the responsibility of the women to do the late night feedings, to change the diapers, to do the late night rockings, my childs father would nudge me and tell me the baby was crying and go back to sleep, after about 6 months of not sleeping but 3 hours a time at night me and him got into a huge fight... I told him he needed to start helping or get out and he told me he does help, by working !! But then would come home and drink till he passed out on the couch... again we were 22 yrs old? fairly young... Im talking about young guys from the ages of 15 to about 30, these guys just dont get it! They really dont... There are a few, Im going to say 10% of guys in that age range that do the right things and help...but most of the time its all on the women to be the mature and responsible one... watch teen mom on MTV thats a good little show that documents being teen parents... (They are now in there 19's and 20's the show started when they were 16 and pregnant, and the show is in its 3rd season.I think ever teenage girl should watch that show. It depicts exactly what we go through when dealing with an "unwanted" pregnancy, or a wanted pregnancy to young. And I do agree with you, women do hold the key to saying no to having sex, and I hope to instill that into my daughter. I want her to know that her body is a temple...LITERALLY, it is sacrid and should be treated with respect on her part as much as her partners part, and I will encourge sex after marriage... wheather she will do it or not I dont know...but I will damn sure try!



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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I do not think you are being rude. But I will be glad to explain ok.

So 1. I had a child I very much wanted be aborted because she wanted to be with another man. I had no say.

2. My youngest son is by another man. I have sole custody of him and raise him. He does not want to be in his life but wants to take care of his responsibility. If he was to say I don't want to pay for his child I would say ok, I do not know if the law would allow this because everything was done through social services. So lets for sake of argument say it would. I would be completly ok with it. Would it suck not getting the extra 255 a month. Yes it would. But I choose to be his father and with that choice I know ultimately it comes down to me to provide for him. I believe that the only real person you can count on is your self.

3. My ex who did what alot of posters say men have done has completly shirked her responsibilites. And yet this is alright because she is female. No she is just as responsible as I am. Since I know she isn't and I chose to be there dad, not only by having sex, but also by fighting social services to get custody, it is on me to provide ultimately for their well being. I CHOOSE, I could of easily have said nope let them live in foster care and been off also.

4. So yes I want people to be responsible for their actions always. But once again this is unrealistic. Remember I can not control anyone or make them do what I want. Since it is unrealistic I only want men who so choose to take the "cowards" way out to have that option, just as I feel that abortion is also a "cowards" way.unless there is a medical reason why it should be necessary or incest or rape. I hope this helps.


I know what you are talking about with your friend, that is why I keep saying it goes both ways and both men and women are just as bad about it.

As for the ex wife getting treatment, she has had the opportunity time and time again even cost free. She simply does not want to. No one can make her. And that is also her choice.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Star you are generalizing based off of your experience. I am sorry that you went through that. The numbers are higher than 10%. There are a variety of reason a woman can be a single mom, and not all of them are because the guy is a douche. From the time I had my first child at 20 I wanted to be a good dad. And did all those things when I was alllowed to. What I mean by being allowed to is my oldest son was 1 when I joing my last unit and was deployed for 6 months out of the year and half of those other months away from home preparing for deployment.

Please understand that yes there are bad guys out there but when laws are made that affect me because of those bad guys I feel that is wrong. Just as if there were if there were laws that affected good women because of the bad would be similary wrong.


edit on 19-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




edit on 19-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 





so men walking away finanically along with some women, happen all the time weather its legal or not... but it shouldnt be legal for either one to walk away financially..


Okay, so I take it your are opposed to abortion, adoption, and safe harbor laws. If not, the above quotation of your stance are just pretty words, and not what you mean at all.


edit on 19-9-2010 by joechip because: to add



No I am not opposed to abortion if you have read my earlier post you would know this obviously, and im not opposed to adoption or the safe harbor laws.... what did I say to make you think that? What was so confussing about my last statement? As a single parent male or female, the other have should NEVER have the right to walk away finaincally legally... plain and simple.... even though it happens all the time anyways... Its sad really! The only one who really suffers is the child....



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Ok and look two men out of the whole board??! What does that say with a forum that has over 2 million members?? Did u think about that?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
So you get pregnant by a guy who does not want a kid...and you don't want to take his opinion in to account but want to keep the baby...is that a bit not self centered.........

Lol, the poor girl can't win, can she. She gets called a self-centred murderer if she has an abortion and she gets called a self-centred man-hater if she doesn't abort a kid the father doesn't want.

I'm not saying you are calling girls all those things, but people do, and she's not going to be able to please everyone.


More women in general have more sex then men, . . . more females sleep around in larger numbers for any number of reasons with the dudes that sleep around...

If more women are doing that men, and they're doing it more often than men, who exactly are they doing it with?
Each other?
If so, perhaps it's because they've been reading too many threads like this.


And thats why this is a personal problem and will be different for everybody out there...even if two things remain a constant...a child is born...or not born...might want to talk about this with your mate..and ask what does he think about having children. If one says "yes" and the other "no" might want to hold off on the whole thing.

Would you murder your 2 year old because his mother didn't want to be a mother?
Of course not.
And that's how some women feel about abortion. I fully support other womens' right to free abortion, but I simply could not do it.

The funny thing is, there are males in this thread talking angrily about girls killing their babies by having abortions, yet they are supporting legal action to pressure more women to abort .



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Star this forum is hardly indicitive of the whole world. If you truly want to see look at Mens rights issues, just as I look at women's rights issue sites. Yeah there are some on both sides that are nothing but hate but there are a few that are balanced and look at things from all sides. 2 that come to mind right off the bat are glensacks.com and ifeminists.com.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Ok and look two men out of the whole board??! What does that say with a forum that has over 2 million members?? Did u think about that?



Its been said...this is a serious issue that both males and females need to take this seriously. But at the end no one can force anyone to do something that they don't want...so all these problems are either fixed before they happen, or it will happen again. You are one amongst millions who has had these issues before....What does that say for all of the human race.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


how is this law affecting you? Do you want the legal ability to walk away from your children and never have to worry about supporting them financially?..... I didnt think so, so how is this affecting you?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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what did I say to make you think that? What was so confussing about my last statement? As a single parent male or female, the other have should NEVER have the right to walk away finaincally legally... plain and simple....
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


It was a rhetorical question. I know you don't oppose these things, I was attempting to point out that these things represent a female walking away from all legal and financial responsibilities, which you stated, quite erroneously, she should NEVER have the right to do. I was pointing out that you don't really believe this.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
So you get pregnant by a guy who does not want a kid...and you don't want to take his opinion in to account but want to keep the baby...is that a bit not self centered.........

Lol, the poor girl can't win, can she. She gets called a self-centred murderer if she has an abortion and she gets called a self-centred man-hater if she doesn't abort a kid the father doesn't want.

I'm not saying you are calling girls all those things, but people do, and she's not going to be able to please everyone.


More women in general have more sex then men, . . . more females sleep around in larger numbers for any number of reasons with the dudes that sleep around...

If more women are doing that men, and they're doing it more often than men, who exactly are they doing it with?
Each other?
If so, perhaps it's because they've been reading too many threads like this.


And thats why this is a personal problem and will be different for everybody out there...even if two things remain a constant...a child is born...or not born...might want to talk about this with your mate..and ask what does he think about having children. If one says "yes" and the other "no" might want to hold off on the whole thing.

Would you murder your 2 year old because his mother didn't want to be a mother?
Of course not.
And that's how some women feel about abortion. I fully support other womens' right to free abortion, but I simply could not do it.

The funny thing is, there are males in this thread talking angrily about girls killing their babies by having abortions, yet they are supporting legal action to pressure more women to abort .





posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Star have you ever wanted to be a frontline marine or soilder? If not you still have the right to am I correct. Isn't it nice to know that you have that right even though you personally will not use it.

Same with me, even though I will never use it its there. There are men that would (and while I think they are cowardly) they should have that right. Just like if you don't want to fight on the front lines there are women that will.

Secondly with the current laws, look what happened to my child when I was deployed my second time. Did that not affect me. It took me years to accept what happened and I was powerless to stop it. Yes it affects me.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by joechip



what did I say to make you think that? What was so confussing about my last statement? As a single parent male or female, the other have should NEVER have the right to walk away finaincally legally... plain and simple....
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


It was a rhetorical question. I know you don't oppose these things, I was attempting to point out that these things represent a female walking away from all legal and financial responsibilities, which you stated, quite erroneously, she should NEVER have the right to do. I was pointing out that you don't really believe this.


No I believe you took it the wrong way or maybe I didnt put it out the way I wanted too, but I did say SINGLE parent.. meaning a caregiver to a child... a child that is alive and sustains life on its own... the other half SHOULD NEVER have the right to financially walk away and I also stated in an earlier post, that women have the EXTRA responsibility of carring the fetus, parasite which ever u want to call it, so we do have the EXTRA option of ending such a parasitic situation.... but its late and I have work tomorrow.. good luck guys I think Ive spent enough time on this topic



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


And there are those that do not agree with it and only want things to be more equal. Perhaps you should stop spending so much time on those that are taking that position and work through those issues that aren't that is the only way something is ever going to be solved.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Star have you ever wanted to be a frontline marine or soilder? If not you still have the right to am I correct. Isn't it nice to know that you have that right even though you personally will not use it.

Same with me, even though I will never use it its there. There are men that would (and while I think they are cowardly) they should have that right. Just like if you don't want to fight on the front lines there are women that will.

Secondly with the current laws, look what happened to my child when I was deployed my second time. Did that not affect me. It took me years to accept what happened and I was powerless to stop it. Yes it affects me.



Actually I tried to join the airforce for a stable career and to get an education but because I am the caregiver to my child I would have to sign over my rights which is something I am not willing to do or get married again something I am not willing to do in the sake of joining the air force, but let a guy who has a child want to join and he can ...isnt that nice?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by Kailassa
 

And there are those that do not agree with it and only want things to be more equal. Perhaps you should stop spending so much time on those that are taking that position and work through those issues that aren't that is the only way something is ever going to be solved.

It?
What is it?
You're not giving much of a clue as to what you're talking about.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Actually star do you care to know why I am not a Marine anymore. I will tell you. When it came time to renlist I was given a choice get divorced and be recommended for reenlistment or stay married and not get recommended. So in the off chance I did get divorced (which would of put my child at the time in a situation wher he more than likely would of taken the abuse I was suffering since I wouldnt be there) I chose to end my career so I could be a buffer for mny son (since I only had him at the time). Even if by some twist of faith I got custody I would still have to sign him away or get married to stay in. It still cuts both ways.

And I said a front line fighter in combat. You can have a job in the air farce (sorry marine corps pride coming out) and not serve on the front lines. Either way I am sorry it isn't right or fair. And hopefully will be addressed in the future.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 





Lol, the poor girl can't win, can she. She gets called a self-centred murderer if she has an abortion and she gets called a self-centred man-hater if she doesn't abort a kid the father doesn't want. I'm not saying you are calling girls all those things, but people do, and she's not going to be able to please everyone.



You don't get it...there is more here then your silly wants...Even if you want a baby....You should of thought about that ahead of time....You just cant go on ahead and get pregnant and expect things to work out, especially when you know the male does not want a kid....Its pretty simple, there are no good options, so don't just go ahead and do as you feel you should..... Might want to not listen to what all the people say, it don't matter its all bull# when they call you a murderer for an abortion, or self centered when you don't........Think along the lines of what would my actions entail for my kids.



If more women are doing that men, and they're doing it more often than men, who exactly are they doing it with? Each other? If so, perhaps it's because they've been reading too many threads like this.



Your attempt to use my question back at me is funny and cool. I shall give you a star for that...But yes to "do it" with with someone implies that there are two people. So there are two point of views....



Would you murder your 2 year old because his mother didn't want to be a mother? Of course not. And that's how some women feel about abortion. I fully support other womens' right to free abortion, but I simply could not do it. The funny thing is, there are males in this thread talking angrily about girls killing their babies by having abortions, yet they are supporting legal action to pressure more women to abort .


If the child is "two years old" then no its no abortion...its murder...but what I think you meant to say is "would you murder your fetus if you knew that the girl your slept with was pregnant"... To which I would say, me personally no, but there are such a thing as bad circumstances in this world...And no matter what you think they dictate what one should do in different situations, so in some of those situations I would answer...yes...It might be better to not bring a baby in to this world....But all those situations can be avoided by not getting anyone pregnant.......But all of these are my opinions...Ask anybody else and they will give you different opinions...Some even would think its better to murder your 2 year old, for convenience...Don't believe me? you have not seen what this world is capable of then.



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